Rorzikel

@king of nowhere's post has an answer, and it is a new soul after the original went to the Beyond.

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not talking about the book, but the real thing.

The emperor got wounded, was left in semi vegetative state. then a stamp was made to fix him. I wonder what happened to his actual soul, congitively and spiritually. Did the emepror die, his soul going to beyond, and the stamp animated the body with investiture? Or maybe the emperor died and the stamp created a new soul for him, so that in the beyond there will be two emperors in the end? or perhaps the soul of the emperor was still with the body, and the stamp repaired the damage to it?

Questioner

At the very end [of the Emperor’s Soul], the Ashravan construct, the simulacrum that’s been made, is convincing. Is it a real boy?

Brandon Sanderson

So, by cosmere terms, what has happened here is that it is a new individual who has the memories that Shai has put into his head. She has actually constructed something that is using some of the matter and stuff behind (it can access some of the matter). Is it a real boy? It is a construct that has enough Investiture to be self-aware. So it is a person, I would say yes.

Is it a real boy? Is Syl a real girl? If you say yes to Syl being a real girl, then yes, it’s a real boy. It’s definitely a person, does that make sense? But is it actually him? No. Not by basically anyone’s definitions. If you go to the religious definitions, they’re gonna be like, “No, that soul passed on.” If you go to the arcanist definitions, they’re gonna be like, “This isn’t quite a Cognitive Shadow, but it’s something analogous to it.” You’ve taken some Investiture that’s become self-aware and can access the memories, ‘cause it’s got… It can actually access memories that she didn’t put in there, because it has access to the brain, that was still functional. But see, it gets a little sticky here. She basically made them a better version, but it also has autonomy. It is a person.

There is one other wob from Dragonsteel 2023 where Brandon mulls it over and says that he thinks that the Lashing will run out faster if used on a Feruchemist.

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Questioner

In a battle versus a Feruchemist and a Windrunner, if the Feruchemist were lashed directly upward, would increasing his weight cancel that lashing out?

Brandon Sanderson

The way that lashings work are by rewriting your body's interaction with gravity. That's very weird. It's very, very weird. The way that Feruchemy works, it is kind of the same way. I play loose and free with this one (this is the one that drives everybody else mad). It is actually changing, so would it... what would it do?

So, part of me wants to say you would fall upward faster. But that's not how gravity works, so that wouldn't happen. But would it counteract the lashing? I think that the lashing would incorporate it, and nothing would change. That is my best guess, but your lashing, then, probably runs out faster. That's my off-the-cuff answer; I'd have to really look at the mechanics of that. But you can take that for now. I'll have to consult with the arcanists to make sure I'm not going crazy on that.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

I think Identity contamination affecting compounding is more about an added barrier of difficulty. It's already a hack of two systems that relies on the metalmind you burn matching your identity and your misting ability corresponding to the same metal (plus apparently requiring practice of some kind). With hemalurgy you're just adding more variables and reducing what made the hack plausible in the first place.

If I spike Jeff the Gold Ferring and Julia the Gold Misting, then I can store some health that is keyed to a mixture of Jeff and myself. Then I can try to burn it with an allomantic power that has some of Julia's Identity still. That's inherently less cohesive than a twinborn like Miles with a single Identity and both necessary powers.

We know with hemalurgy that sometimes you can tap the stores of the person you killed, but if you split the spike that you and another person could not share metalminds (though both of you could tap from the original). This shows that even with a partial match that powers can conflict. I imagine this is even more so for hacks that aren't built into the system.

wob:

I'll make a bit of a prediction. Brandon's India-inspired work will have conlang'd character names based on Indian phonemes/word fragments, cultures and religions that have traits of real-life ones combined with Cosmere concepts, and populations that resemble real Indian ethnicities. You can probably expect more in-depth representation than Scadrial being vaguely European, but not immensely more than Yumi and the Night Painter's Asian inspired elements.

I would not expect a western author writing a non-Earth based fantasy to create an exact replication of reality or a cutting takedown/criticism of another culture. He'll probably have something like brahmin, kshatriyas, viashyas, sudras, and dalits/untouchables, but I'd be very surprised if he has 500 castes. 

57 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Crystals (Lucentia) are the Essence that lines up with "The Eyes", the fact it's specifically a diamond is icing on the cake.

My mistake, I thought it was just glass.

On 7/17/2025 at 3:29 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I think it's the same system as what El is doing. If we look at the Essence table we find that Lucentia = The Eyes and Foil = The Nails, and Moash's eyes were replaced with gems while El's carapace is replaced with metal. (Carapace isn't exactly fingernails, but irl they're both usually keratin on vertebrates, they both fulfill the same role of hard cover over skin, we see with the Herdazians' special fingernails that genetically they seem to work through the same pathways, and indeed for at least some forms their fingernails are carapace, so I'm comfortable proposing that for singers they might be perceived as conceptually the same thing.)

Could be Voidbinding, but my guess is it's the third "series of abilities that is even more esoteric than the Voidbindings" alluded to by the Ars Arcanum.

Diamonds, which notably in Essential Theology are associated with the eyes.

My theory is actually compatible with this, since we've been told fabrials are part of the third system (though they seem to be in a grey area on whether they fully count or not).

"It's, it's... By God, it's the Ars Arcanum Body Focuses with a steel chair!"

The only question I'd have there is what determines what gets swapped in. With Moash he's getting diamonds in the eyes (polestone replacing its body focus), but El would be using Foil/metal for "the Nails"/carapace (essence replacing body focus), not pieces of amethyst. Maybe there's flexibility for polestone or essence standing in for a body part.

While reminiscent of Hemalurgy, I don't think this is really a new, separate magic system on Roshar. However you categorize things like fabrials and gemheart bonds, this seems to be an extension of that system. It is kind of a merger, artificially trapping spren in crystal like fabrials do but then involving a living body like a gemheart bond.

I wonder if Yelig-nar should be counted as part of this? Amaram had to swallow a gem after all.

"Pistons" from materials that elongate, acting as a motor that turns stormlight into mechanical motion.

Lightweight structural frameworks, like making tentpoles and fabrics into steel-strength.

Rapier and fencing style weapons made from thin wire or thread.

A man cuts a way through the undergrowth, and now others walk down the beaten path quicker than he made it. They make their own offshoots and reach farther because they add from his. They see now where he could have set his course better, made the path straighter.

Was he a fool? No, he just was first.

7 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

I've wondered about that too. At this point, Kelsier is almost identical to a spren, which means he's nearly pure investiture. I kept wondering how Ba-Ado-Mishram could take up the shard when she's effectively the same.

Sja-Anat’s interlude in RoW stated that most of the unmade were like her, with their forms split between the physical and cognitive realms. Maybe that’s like having a pseudo-physical aspect for shard taking purposes.

I do find it a little odd that Brandon would rather use "evanotype" in place of photograph or "half-beard" for goatee on Scadrial, but made certain decisions like keeping "therapist", "neuroses", "mentally ill" etc.

It's not terrible or anything, but he's previously been willing to conlang, use synonyms, or speak more formally with other English terms that I think would have stood out less to the reader than here.

Not mad at her losing, though I do think she just gave up. For her utilitarian perspective, I think she got a little too sucked into the debate team mentality when I think she (a person who is willing to use assassins) could have stood to sully her arguments with some emotional appeals, ad hominems, toxicity, and not backing up so many of his points willingly.

She seemed more concerned with volleying points back and forth, when regardless of her philosophy depends on selfishness for her family or utility, she should have been going for the kill. Rip this man a new one, don’t step into a bear trap because you won’t play dirty.

Why aren’t we relentlessly pushing back on Big T’s “make a deal with me, I’m totally trustworthy” rhetoric whenever it comes up? He is literally fighting a war based in loopholes, sneaking past a contract Wit believes is so genius. He’s bound to a volatile intent. He immediately threatened to annihilate Thaylenah when Fen didn’t jump at the first opportunity. This is not a trustworthy negotiator, jump this man, Jasnah. One time isn’t enough, every instance of “my word is my bond” deserves to be called out as the blatant lie it is.

His attacks on her character? Jasnah, this is the fate of the world, defend yourself like you’re OJ Simpson. If someone brings up you plotting to off your sister-in-law, respond with how Aesuden ended up swallowing an Unmade and starved her own people to throw Cthulhu parties. Clearly a bad egg. 

His claims of being the best at utilitarianism because of “godly” foresight? Bring up how how his predecessor got played and outwitted by Dalinar, to the point that’s how Todium got his Odium. Perfect precognition, I think not.

I think the economic argument was the fatal blow, but block with your limbs not your face and throw a few hits back before you go down.

2 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I’m less sure what to call the ‘rules’ Dawnshard. I’ve seen people suggest Bind. I think Obey or Rule might also work, depending what angle it goes for. Obvious Shards for this category: Honor and Dominion. There’s also Autonomy (self-rule) and Reason (logic is about following rules).

Align? Maybe Restrict?

6 hours ago, Ookla the Arbiter said:

yes, but those are lights, not rhythms. (to my knowledge) we don't know what Honor + Cultivation rhythm is, or Odium + Cultivation. We do, however, know the Divine Rhythm of Odium + Honor.

Honor plus Cultivation's rhythm was called the Rhythm of the Tower back in RoW.

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The two snapped into harmony. The boundless energy of Cultivation, always growing and changing, and the calm solidity of Honor—organized, structured. They vibrated together. Structure and nature. Knowledge and wonder. Mixing.
The song of science itself.
That is it, the Sibling whispered to the Rhythm of the Tower. My song.
"Our emulsifier," Navani whispered to the Rhythm of the Tower.

Bolding mine, source is RoW 110.

9 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

The people uttering the rattles are not speaking English. The English feature of not having a simple word with the meaning "human being" or "adult human being" is not universal.

My point being in response to the debate of the Burdens of Nine rattle's grammar.

Still, I'm not sure I agree with you that this is meant to be a translation error between Rosharan and English rather than the in-world flaws of Death Rattle accuracy. There are simple English words (two dead humans, two souls) in place of men, and the rest of it as vaguely fitting. Shattered Plains cracks=the pit, two living people who were thought missing=two dead men, a crystal gem usually specified as a gemheart=heart. All very poetic, all loose.

I'm not sure about the sourcing of the claim, but the coppermind and the fandom seems to think "They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory." refers to Kal and Shallan surviving their fall into the chasms and their return to the warcamps with a gemheart. If so, not even gender can be accurately assumed from Death Rattles.

On 11/15/2024 at 2:32 PM, KelsierApologist said:

Isn't that what Autonomy does?

I've wondered if mergers of two intents might produce rhythms that naturally mirror existing shards. (Honor+Odium=War sounding rather like Valor) Depending on how the Dawnshards split Ado to sixteen, combinations of two or three might balance out to resemble another shard.

3 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

Sure, but tossing a stone in a rushing river has no impact. Or adding concentrated hydrochloric acid to an ocean would do nothing.

Obviously the anti-stormlight affected the perpendicularity, but why? It means that the nature of the perpendicularity that Dalinar creates is more like a balloon than a river, but is a shardpool the same? Would exposing anti-investiture into a shardpool of the same shard cause it to collapse?

Maybe?

There's certainly differences between Dalinar's perp and shardpools. One is temporary while the other is constant. One is able to be opened anywhere while the others are fixed. And Dalinar's perp is a column of light not a body liquid. There could be varying results.

Regardless, I see Mraize as compromising the structure that Dalinar has generated much like Nightblood did. The stormfather said right after that NB couldn't destroy the power of a shard, that Szeth merely collapsed it, and that it was resummonable. The anti-light explosion seems to be the same, just with not all of the investiture siphoned up into a certain greedy maw.

21 hours ago, GudThymes said:

Otherwise, what a couple of chapters. I am so glad to see that the anti-light is being used for something other than just killing Spren. Albeit I'm a little confused on the mechanics. My understanding is that the anti-light should only take out an equal amount of stormlight and given that a perpendicularity is "infinite" how would that actually cause the collapse?

 

Something about moment instability creating turbulence or something like that? It wouldn't break anything about bonds or powers but just causing a momentary disruption during the reaction?

48 minutes ago, The Stick said:

I do have a big problem with the whole perpendicularity scene. I mean, I took Night blood to collapse the last one. We know Honor's Perpendicularity has a huge amount of Investiture. I just kind of doubt Mraize's little anti-light knife was strong enough.

You can pop a balloon with a pin or fell a tree with a small chunk taken out.

An interesting cross-book behavior: barbs/spikes/spider-legs ripping through a humanoid figure's skin when they are enraged or feeling destructive.

Rhythm of War Chapter 77:

Secret History Part 4

Secret History Part 6

19 minutes ago, Confused said:

She tells us Odium "will rip through anyone...," confirmation that Odium Unmade her.

Honor hated spren? Does Sja-anat believe Honor might have better protected her and her children from Odium? She's mad at Cultivation for standing aside while the boys fought it out?

Game, Shallan? I fight for survival. Odium will rip through anyone, anything, to get what he wishes. Thousands of years have proven he cares nothing for me or my children. Honor is a coward who always hated us. Destroyed us. Betrayed us. And all Cultivation does is watch.

You know, what this implies to me is that Honor might have offered up the Not-Yet-Unmade to Odium as bait in the trapping plan. Being called a coward is one thing but claiming that Honor destroyed and betrayed the Unmade seems less an accusation of inaction than complicity in the Unmaking.

I like to look at it as six Red Bulls and the knowledge that if you punch a steel wall you won't need to go to the emergency room. Maybe it's not true superstrength, but it might as well be.

I've been a little unimpressed with the villains but out of how the narrative kicks their legs out from under them. There's a solid string of opponents who follow more or less this process:

Bad Guy introduced as a threatening presence ---> Bad Guy begins to lose any previous characterization in favor of ranting and posturing ---> Bad Guy loses in a way that reveals them as pathetic while the protagonists give one-liners or a monologue ---> Bad Guy screams at the sky as they realize they were fools and then die.

Rinse and repeat.

Basically, they go from Sauron to Skeletor, sometimes in the same book. It's gotten repetitive between Szeth (during his assassin in white storyline), Amaram, Lezian, Gavilar, Rayse, Moash etc. I'm sure our new friend Abidi the Monarch might be joining the club as the latest one-book Fused antagonist.

14 minutes ago, Sedside said:

1. I don't think that this thread's concept was to prove Dalinar was right to burn the Rift. The first post is not about it.

Lord Spirit's point 2 in the opening post says that many people irl are upset with the Blackthorn's rampages, then states that said actions were legal and justified. The justifications are apparently:

• King Gavilar told him to conquer it
• War allows for violent extremes
  • And Dalinar was told to make an example of it.
• Dalinar first tried peaceful options before the burning.
• Gavilar sent him knowing that Dalinar was violent, so it was really Gavilar's fault.

You can look at it and tell me if you feel it's mischaracterized. I'd say that an action being legal and justified must be, if not right, then at least absolved.

On 10/8/2024 at 8:55 PM, Lord Spirit said:

2.

 There are a lot of people who are upset with Dalinar for his rampaging as the blackthorn. But, the thing is… his actions were completely legal and justified. Gavilar told him to conquer a city, and he did. Yes burning the rift was extreme. But he was at war, which is an exception to normal life, and I think he was specifically told to make an example of the city. And he only went nuclear after trying to be peaceful. But he was doing what Gavilar told him. Gavilar knew full well what Dalinar was capable of and chose to send his very violent brother to deal with the problem. 

By contrast, Adolin killed Saedeas on his own accord and never got punished for it. It was illegal and wrong, even if Saedeas definitely deserved it. He shouldn’t hold Dalinar to a standard that he doesn’t follow. 

The thread concept seems to be "why hasn't Adolin forgiven him by now, it's unreasonable for him to be this mad still." I'd say atonement without consequence is self-serving and that forgiveness shouldn't be required.

This whole thread's concept is disagreed with by the man it intends to defend.

-

Odium stepped back. "Dalinar? What is this?"

"You cannot have my pain."

"Dalinar-"

Dalinar forced himself to his feet. "You. Cannot. Have. My. Pain."

"Be sensible."

"I killed those children," Dalinar said.

"No, it-"

"I burned the people of Rathalas."

"I was there, influencing you-"

"YOU CANNOT HAVE MY PAIN!" Dalinar bellowed, stepping toward Odium. The god frowned. His Fused companions shied back, and Amaram raised a hand before
his eyes and squinted. Were those gloryspren spinning around Dalinar?

"I did kill the people of Rathalas," Dalinar shouted. "You might have been there, but I made the choice. I decided!" He stilled. "I killed her. It hurts so much, but I did it. I accept that. You cannot have her. You cannot take her from me again."

"Dalinar," Odium said. "What do you hope to gain, keeping this burden?"

Dalinar sneered at the god. "If I pretend ... If I pretend I didn't do those things, it means that I can't have grown to become someone else."
"A failure."

Something stirred inside of Dalinar. A warmth that he had known once before. A warm, calming light. Unite them.

"Journey before destination," Dalinar said. "It cannot be a journey if it doesn't have a beginning."

A thunderclap sounded in his mind. Suddenly, awareness poured back into him. The Stormfather, distant, feeling frightened-but also surprised. Dalinar?

"I will take responsibility for what I have done," Dalinar whispered. "If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man."

-

All from Oathbringer 119, the foundation of his next ideal and his win at Thaylen Field. The arguments of "oh, Odium was influencing Dalinar so it wasn't really him" or "it was someone else's fault" or "the killing of Rathalas and the burning of children wasn't his choice or his fault" are quite literally Odium's arguments.

So no, Dalinar did many things wrong, but you can take Rayse's side if you wish. I find this all bizarre, the character is about changing from a monster to a better man, not "a super cool guy who did badass things and messed up one time but it's all not his fault so why are people still mad after he apologized?"