Tiberius Gracchus

I agree with a lot of this. I never saw Kaladin and Tarah's relationship as a failure. She left him to pursue a work opportunity, and while it is implied that if they had a stronger relationship with greater investment on both of their parts, there were ways for them to stay together. (Either her staying in Amaram's army or more likely him following her to her new job.) Kal and Tarah remind me of many of my family members who married their highschool sweethearts in their mid 30s, after first moving away and growing up a bit before finally coming back. I think it is more likely that she will pop up with the refugees/resistance fighters near the Alethkar-Herdaz border where Kaladin's parents and this Herdazian general that is supposed to be important will be.

I don't know. I am very skeptical of Stormlight and Mistborn adaptations actually happening, DMG will shop it around a little but they won't really commit. Both of these would be incredibly difficult to make without massive changes to the source material and would be way more expensive and narrowly appealing than most of their competitor IPs. And on the Disney question, they are really pushing the limits of how much market share they can get away with. I doubt that they would want to buy another studio or IP rights when that might finally prompt anti-trust action from even a conservative government, especially when they already have so many popular IPs to fall back on.

I don't know. Dova was not one of the original members of the Diagram and she is responsible for the discreet collection of Death Rattles, it doesn't seem like she has all that much influence over the direction of the Diagram as a whole. The most damage she should do is fabricate some Death Rattles or maybe wildly misinterpret it. If someone was infiltrating the Diagram to manipulate them they would be someone more directly involved like Adrotagia or Graves.

I would be fine with the idea of Battar being associated with the Diagram. It is the the specifically the Silent Gatherer's perversion of the role of a Surgeon/Healer that evokes Vedel so strongly.

Whoops, did not intend to post this twice.

During Taravangian's interlude in WoR he first mentions a former ardent named Dova who discovered the Diagram and forced Taravangian to either assassinate her or induct her. He inducts her by the time of the interlude she is the head of the Silent Gatherer's, Taravangian's Death Rattle factory workers. At the end of OB when Taravangian tells Dalinar that he believes that Dova is actually Bettar the Herald of the Elsecallers. This frustrates me, as I am a subscriber to the well-supported theory that all of the Heralds are currently inversions of the ideals they represent. (ex. Ash the artist destroying art, Nale the lawman a serial murderer, Jezrian the leader a wretched drunk) However leading the Silent Gatherers isn't really an inversion of what we understand Battar to represent. Jasnah, our only Elsecaller and presumably all Elsecaller's and their patron, are a pragmatic group dedicated to using knowledge to preserve the long term survival of the species no matter the short term cost. Of all of the Radiants that we have seen, Jasnah seems the most likely to recognize the brutal necessity of the Silent Gatherers. However, the actions of the Silent Gatherers is a direct inversion of what we understand of the Herald Vedel. Vedel is supposed to be loving, healing and is associated with surgeons. Her order of Radiants, the Edgedancers, were most concerned with the welfare of the lowliest people in society, specifically the "forgotten" and "ignored", the exact group that the Silent Gatherers exploit. (in the guise of healers) The fact that Taravangian merely suspects that Dova is Battar, instead of outright confirming it, leaves open the possibility that he is correct that she is a Herald but is misguided about which one. It seems pretty reasonable to me for Taravangian to mistake one female Herald for another as modern rosharans do not seem to have a clear understanding of what the Heralds looked like, and I am not sure he knows the full extent of the Herald's insanity. Tib

I really appreciate this sentiment, and this concept of Kaladin having to learn to not protect Moash from the deserved consequences of his actions, is really cool. I want it to be explored. However, Kaladin is already most of the way to swearing his 4th ideal at the end of OB, and the question of how he should respond to Vyre hasn't even really been asked yet. The 4th Ideal has to be in some way relevant to Kaladin's experiences in Kholinar and Shadesmar and Moash wasn't there for either. Kaladin's inability to move on from failures and focus on protecting "people" as a whole rather than tunnel-visioning on saving individual people near him is a much more immediate problem and the thematic question he grapples with in OB. I will be really surprised if the 4th ideal is about anything else. If the Moash question is raised during the course of RoW, as I expect it to be. Then I would say that your idea is an excellent candidate for 5th Ideal.

Teft's swearing of the third ideal is one of my favorite moments in OB, so I hope we get more of these smaller radiant stories. Namley I wan to see (just a little) more from Vathah, Ishnah, Lyn and Rushu.

And we are going to get a Stoneward at some point

Well if that is true then it is news to me.

So Brandon has outright stated that we will be seeing an new Dustbringer in Rhythm of War. I have seen surprisingly little speculation about who this will be, so I will lay out my theory. My theory is that the next Dustbringer to be introduced in the series will be Balat Davar. I will start with a few extra-narrative reasons that I believe this: Firstly, Brandon likes writing Radiants with tragic backstories and Balat comes with a pre-packaged one that can be seen through Shallan's flashbacks. Secondly, Balat has been given a surprising about of screentime including his own pov interlude, it would seem a little odd for this much time to be spent on him if he was just going to be Shallan's kinda pathetic older brother. Finally, from a timeline prospective for all of the first 3 books Balat has either been far away or in the past, RoW will be the first time when Balat is in the place where modern plot is happening and it just so happens thats when we get our Dustbringer. As for in-world reasons that Balat could become a Radiant. One is that it has been confirmed that while radiance is not hereditary being related to Radiants can bring someone to the attention of the spren. This is supported by, Tien being a proto-lightweaver, the astonishing number of Kholin Radiants, and the fact that the Davar family has already had at least 2 members start the process of bonding spren. This familial connection suggests that we should take the idea of more Davar Radiants seriously. As for why I think Balat would specifically be a Dustbringer. During Shallan's brief conversation with Pattern about Malata, he talks about how the Ashspren and their Radiants are very destructive and enjoy breaking things and tearing things open because they want to know what is inside. Balat has demonstrated similar interests (though admittedly even more destructive ones) by his interests in tearing apart animals, setting fires, and watching axehound fights. Additionally, the primary and secondary divine attributes of the Dustbringers are brave and obedient. This fits thematically with Balat's history and personality. Balat spends most of Shallan's flashbacks in a strange position as the only one of the Davar children actively resisting their father while at the same time (at his own repeated admission) not being brave enough to truly stop protect his siblings. I would love to hear any reactions or other possible theories. Note: I am not saying that Balat would have to be a successful Dustbringer or that he would necessarily be on the same side as his sister, just that I think he will be the primary Dustbringer character for the first half of the series.

Yeah I am aware of the deep-seated controversy around this subject and that I view the way the arc played out more favorably than most do.

We just didn't get much Kaladin development in OB at all. (We didn't get much Kaladin full stop) Mostly I think that this was to justify his failure to say the 4th oath (A moment that I think was important enough to warrant it) I excpect that we will be getting a lot more Kaladin in RoW and that these issues will be the focus, perhaps even more than Vyre.

Full-hearted agreement here I think we are mostly in sync on this part except that I place less emphasis on Kaladin's mental health as the source of his social isolation (I still place some) as I do on the fact that his life for the past year or so has been a string of non-stop emergencies. Part 2-3 of WoR and part 2 of OB (the parts where the bridgeman families are brought up) are the only times Kaladin hasn't spent in situations that most people would count as the most stressful times in their lives. My understanding of the family question has more to do with Brandon's intent than Kaladin's. Brandon has been foreshadowing that Bridge 4 transitioning from a super-stressed band of slave/soldiers just trying to reach tomorrow to a permanent organization that provides lifetime employment and security that people can build lives around, will be a major plot line that we just haven't gotten to yet. It only makes sense to pair this plot line with character development for Kaladin adjusting to a life where he can plan for more than 2 days in the future by developing real relationships with his family and possibly a partner. I do not expect this change to happen quickly or easily. Learning to have a life again will be very hard for Kaladin and I suspect it will be a significant hurdle for his future oaths. Those in relationships with him will need a great deal of patience, grace and understanding of his inner world to help him grow through this. I however do not think that he will grow in this way without those he loves demanding it of him and giving him the time he needs to adjust.

then we have different assessments of that relationship

All right! This is the kind of discussion I was hoping to find on this site. The line between advancing the interests of House Kholin and protecting Dalinar (the face and force of House Kholin) is very blurry. We can see this in Jasnah's prolouge as she sees herself as defending her father, brother and uncle in a way that only she can/will. We also see it in how much Adolin frames his relationship with the court and politics in general during WoK and WoR. He sees his role in Alethi politics as defending his father's person, reputation and the political project of his house and punishing those that dare threaten them. (primarily through duels and winning plateau runs) I imagine that this line will be even blurrier for Kaladin as he already has a tendency to see everything he does as a form of protection for those he cares about and feels responsible for. He has never limited his sphere of protection to only immediate physical threats otherwise he wouldn't have involved himself so thoroughly and immediately in Dalinar's political schemes. Yes, Kaladin's primary arcs are about his guilt and prejudice but reclaiming a somewhat normal life has been a consistent sub-theme in all 3 books for him and it the theme most tied to his love life. This theme is evident through his creation of nightly stew time in WoK, but it is brought even more to the fore in the later books once he has a little more control over what happens to him. Both Syl and many members of Bridge 4 consistently pressure Kaladin to smile more, to spend time drinking with his friends, and to pursue romantic relationships: (or in Syl's case just have some sex already) Syl encourages him to pursue Shallan, Teft demands that he spend time with his friends, Adolin and Shallan point out that he never has any fun, and I think it is Drehy (or maybe Leyten) who makes fun of him for always thinking about work and never about women. This theme is even evident in the Tarah flashback as much of that scene is about Kaladin prioritizing spear practice over spending time with her. This is also why Brandon keeps bringing up the question of bridgemen with families and why Kaladin keeps putting off solving it. I have a strong intuition that this theme will become even more prominent in RoW. Brandon has already suggested that this book will happen over a much longer time frame. I am imagining RoW will involve scenes (probs in parts 2-3) where Kaladin is living in Urithiru with Bridge 4, his family, and possibly Tarah. This slowdown in the pace of events will finally give Kaladin the space to think about what he wants for himself outside of simply keeping his people alive I am less concerned with a Tarah centered romance feeling cheap, as I trust Brandon to give the relationship the screen time and emotional investment it needs to develop. (these next two books are going to be giant anyway) This was why I was so happy with the Shallan triangle being resolved so quickly. Tib

I actually disagree with this. Jasnah is a queen. No matter how brilliant or powerful she is, she will need other powerful people to help uphold and secure her rule. (as exemplified by how much time Adolin, Navani, Jasnah, Kaladin and even Shallan have spent protecting Dalinar in the first 3 books) Having a romantic relationship with Jasnah that any more official than "occasional booty call" would necessarily land Kaladin a full-time job as a de facto agent of the crown sworn to advance the Queen's interests. This would make Kaladin's relationship to Jasnah essentially the same as his realationship to Dalinar and Bridge 4 as the charge he must protect and serve. Essentially Kaladin is in the process of learning work-life balance and how to have a life outside of his work and becoming the consort to the Queen is the exact opposite direction from where he needs to go. Tib P.S. When I said that Kaladin needs someone who doesn't need his protection I think this only works if it is someone who is just not regularly in danger as everyone else in his life is.

I agree with most of this but I think that Brandon has plans for Balat Davar. (namely becoming a Dustbringer in RoW) He might still die but his death will be self inflicted ( either as a tragic hero or tragically manipulated violent antagonist) rather than the "damsels that Shallan can't save" fate that awaits Wikim and Jushu. He is definitely killing either Kaladin or Teft but I think there is a strong chance that Teft is the one that survives, shouldering the enormous burden of replacing Kal. I also don't think he is killing Rock. He needs to go become King of the Peaks and establish a dynasty that will be plot relevant in 6-10

I don't know. The Kaladin and Jasnah pairing has never made sense to me. Their life experiences and more importantly values don't match at all. No matter how powerful any future lady-love of Kaladin's is he will still probably act extremely protective in a way that Jasnah would find infantalizing. Kaladin would make a terrible royal consort, he would hate all of the faux pleasantry and posturing associated with the Alethi court in exile. I hear some argue that this pairing would be made as a political arrangement. I don't get this either, Kaladin and Jasnah are both already committed to the same groups and organizations, a marital alliance would be redundant. Also neither of them would go along with an arranged marriage. Kaladin would be very uncomfortable making someone marry him, and Jasnah's love life and faith are the two subjects that she never bows to pressure on no matter how impractical or damaging it gets. I fully expect Jasnah to become a "Virgin Queen" in the mold of Elizabeth I. Especially because Gavinor settles the question of an heir. I expect Kaladin to end up with a more normal woman, Tarah or someone else. His romance arc is about leaning how to have a life again and it makes more thematic sense to pair him with someone who doesn't need him to fight for her or protect her but just needs him to be there. Tib

I have already read Bands, that was a great moment. I thankfully got that order right. I was less aware earlier and accidentally read Oathbringer before Edgedancer. So that was a bummer.

Thanks, I think I figured it out. also: I have been warned about accepting any offered foodstuffs

Thanks. My fav character so far would have to be King Elokhar, mostly because of how Michael Kramer voices him. btw let me know if I am replying wrong

Hello, I am Tiberius Gracchus. The name is a reference to the roman political figure from the 200s BCE. I am quite new to the cosmere fandom and to organized fandom in general. I have finished Mistborn 1 and Warbreaker, and am caught up on Stormlight and Mistborn 2. I am currently working on Arcanum Unbounded. (All Audiobook) I am an avid Shardcast listener and have decided to start getting more involved and trying some theorizing of my own. Nice to meet y'all, Tib