Jaelin

Absolutely, there were MASSIVE nods to Adolin-as-Stoneward in RoW. There were also MASSIVE nods to Adolin-as-Willshaper. There were also some pretty big nods to Adolin-as-Edgedancer. However, there were also some pretty big nods to Adolin-not-Edgedancer. At this stage, I am pretty sure Brandon is trolling us with Adolin, and he will end up as something else completely. Possibly a novel combination of Surges, perhaps expressing one or more of the surges in a different way. If I had to pick right now, I would say I see him landing somewhere between Stoneward and Willshaper, perhaps with the Surges of Tension and Transportation, in a novel combination. This would potentially encompass his pure tenacity and his more flighty elements.

I am pretty sure after RoW that when Maya revives, she won't be a Cultivationspren anymore. RoW was jammed full of references to spren changing because of their interaction with humans. If Maya revives it will be because Adolin invests her, rather than the other way around; much like how he "gives of himself" so she can speak. That's going to be a more significant change than any spren has ever gone through. I don't have any idea what she will be, probably nothing that *is* currently, instead something new; sort of like Glyss, but "corrupted" by Adolin's investiture in her. After RoW, I have a faint hope that she will express as a "swordspren", shaped by her long time as a "sword", Adolin's (super cute) sword fascination/collection, and her "resonance" with swords - ie: doing kata with Adolin.

You and I often disagree on things Adolin and Maya related, but in this I am fully in agreement with you. Especially given the introspection contained in Oathbringer; in the time of the desolation, the resources that Adolin has been "given" are substantially less important than those "given" to Kaladin or Dalinar and Adolin knows it. The reassessment of priorities that he goes through is very interesting as it is reflective of much of the changing values of the times.

I think we've seen foreshadowing that this is Adolin's intended character development. His ruminations in shadesmar indicate that he has come to value the trappings of his previous life less, accompanied with an appreciation that they are effectively meaningless compared to the people around him. He's being forced to realize that in situations like that (which are invariably more common in the desolation) he can't just be given everything and needs to 'earn' it himself. Here's an interesting idea (although I don't think that it will necessarily happen this way): What if Adolin, trying to get Maya to live again, gets Sja-anat to 'corrupt' her so that she can be alive once more. I mean, he sees Renarin with Glys, and he's got Shallan who might tell him that Sja-anat isn't against humanity. So.. I guess it's in the realm of possibility.

My preference is that Adolin revives Maya but this process changes her. Rather than just revives her as she once was. I like the implications that this has on the revival process - that humans can fundamentally change spren; and the weight that the revival process has.

Yeah... like I said: The post I was responding to however was suggesting (as I understand it) that she had lost her entire identity and that she was becoming a cultivation spren because of Adolin's impact. Of course, I am not wholly convinced that she is necessarily becoming a Cultivation spren again. She might be, but she might be changing into something else. I've already pointed out that changes in a Spren's mental facilities are reflected in their "physical" representation (the change from strands of hair/cloth to vines). It follows that were Mayalaram's identity to be changed by Adolin's investment in her then she may well change her "physical" nature to reflect that change. This is possible because as we know, that much of their identity and mind has been ripped out by the severing of the Nahel bond: That and as far as we know, no other shardbearer (ie: dead spren shardblade) has been to Shadesmar, met with their spren directly and understood the nature of the weapon that they carry. So, while it *could* be that Adolin is just the right person to bond an edgedancer blade (and yes, Brandon has said that she would bond him if alive; but I think that could be taken in a few ways) it could also be that the regeneration of Mayalaran is principally because, due to their shared experiences, she is willing to let him "fill the gaps" in her identity with parts of his; which may mean that she instead becomes something different. Possibly another type of spren entirely, as her mental composition and/or attitudes are no longer in keeping with a Cultivationspren. I prefer the latter course because it is a lot less deus ex machina coincidence (ie: "oh, he just happened to win the exact right shardblade in some random duel many years ago to fit his personality") and instead is more an organic growth of the relationship, stemming from the respect that he has shown her over the years.

So are you suggesting a shield which doesn't require the radiant to hold it?

You mean like how Kaladin uses a sylshield in both WoR and OB?

That's a possibility too. However, I think it would be a very strange coincidence that Maya was a Cultivation spren and just happened to find someone who would make her into a Cultivation spren again. I think that if she ends up as a cultivation spren the more straightforward explanation is that Adolin's investment in her helped her to recover herself. If she becomes something different, then she is a product of what she once was and Adolin's investment.

I'm not sure probability matters. Brandon will write the story he wants to write (and I am sure it will be enjoyable whatever it is). In my opinion speculation like this is about considering possibilities and exploring them. Right now we can only consider "what if"s. If Mayalaran revives as a cultivation spren I expect there will be a lot of changes in opinion. Cultivation will no doubt be happy. Spren society will be overjoyed. Although it would be questionable if other shardblade wielders will go to the same process that Adolin is going through. If she revives as something else, a whole lot of different questions would be raised. What would this mean to spren socIety. How would they react to the "dead" coming back as a "different person". What if Adolin has to give up some of himself to bring back Maya? I think he would do it. But what would that mean? I suspect that act of sacrifice would be significant in reshaping Maya. I think that if this were the route chosen it would be supportive of a transformation process. I don't think that interpretation is correct. I found another reference about Maya's appearance at first that I missed previously. This description is too detailed to be explained as confusion on Adolin's part. I don't see any way you could misinterpret vines as "tight cords the thickness of hair". Instead we have evidence of Maya's "physical" form actively changing during her travel in shadesmar with Adolin. As I noted earlier, what this means is inconclusive. It could just be that Adolin is " healing" Maya back to her original form. Or, it could be that she is becoming something else. The only thing we can take from this for certain is that contact with Adolin is somehow changing Maya's "physical" form.

That doesn't make sense to me. If Adolin is spooked and not paying attention to details, then no details would be mentioned. Not to mention, in the early stages of Shadesmar, Adolin (despite his internal misgivings) is one of the most composed people in the group. Not only does he keep it together for himself, he looks after Kaladin while he is struggling Instead, a detail is specifically mentioned. I would say that is relevant. Especially since the transition from "rough cloth" to "brown vines" is in line with the general regeneration of Mayalaram that we see at the end of Oathbringer, where she starts "talking" with Adolin. What the brown vines means is hard to say. It could be that they are a step towards green vines in the progression of no characteristics > dead characteristics > living characteristics. Or, it could be that they are her old vines, from when she is was a cultivationspren, now dead and ready to fall, as dead branches fall from a tree; potentially revealing something else inside. Except when they aren't. We know spren can change form and (arguably) purpose because of Sja-anat. We don't know how much damage severing the nahel bond does to a spren's internal makeup. We don't know if they come back the same. We do know that the nahel bond makes spren effectively mindless. Ico's provides a good demonstration of this - We do know that spren are creatures of the cognitive realm. We have examples of this directly affecting their physical composition. We cannot know what rebuilding the severe psychological trauma from a severed nahel bond will do with a spren. Because (to the best of our knowledge) it has never been done before. There is a *reasonable possibility* that the restoration of the nahel bond could change Mayalaram on a fundamental level. To claim otherwise is simply willful ignorance.

I'm not sure your analogy is the best one. Spren are inhabitants of the cognitive realm, literally ideas given life. Their personality and mind are fundamental to their identity; it is both shaped by and shapes who they are. The distinction between physical body and cognitive mind for spren is not present. A good example of this is Mayalaran herself. When Adolin first meets her in the cognitive realm her she is described as: But later in the book she is referred to as: The restoration of Maya's mind is affecting her 'physical' form. Ergo, for spren the cognitive affects the physical. (Further examples could probably be made from Sja-Anat's creations) So, if Maya's mind were to be substantially changed by the restoration there seems to be no reason she wouldn't become another type of Spren. There exists another possibility in this case - that Adolin restores Maya, she becomes something new and we get another Renarin situation where we have a Radiant who doesn't fit existing paradigmns.

I don't see there being any intrinsic problems with a Dustbringer being in line with The Diagram. Dustbringers more than any other order (perhaps Skybreakers) seem to be in line with the idea of "cut off the arm to save the body" approach. It would reconcile their destructive paradigm; they harm to preserve.

We also know that the Recreance wasn't a single event but an extended process. I think there's a fair argument to suggest that the gemstone archives may chronicle the Recreance, as there are many references to Radiants "leaving" - this could be just the leaving of Urithiru but it could also be them giving up on their oaths. The radiant saying "goodbye sibling" might not be saying goodbye as the Sibling is leaving but because they are leaving the sibling. The WoR quote you provided is quite good and persuasive though. I do wonder why it is referred to as "sibling" in the records though, not stormfather. I also wonder why the unnamed sibling is slumbering and needs to be protected from interference by the Stormfather. That would imply greater hurt to me, but it could be something else I guess.

There are also the references in Oathbringer how Adolin is an old drinking buddy of Skar and Drehy. Although, I agree with you - it is not really "listen to those who have been ignored". I would say there are sufficient inferences to establish Adolin as a potential Edgedancer. That shouldn't be in question. I would say that there are sufficient inferences to establish Adolin as other orders, which isn't particularly controversial either. I think that there are more fitting orders for Adolin than the Edgedancers. Further, as I suggested above the storyline of "Maya gets fixed and goes back to what she always was" is not consistent with the overall themes of the Stormlight Archive. For such a major storyline point, it would seem to be inconsistent that it would go against theme. Instead, I would argue that a transformation arc would be more consistent with those themes and more dramatic and impactful on the universe; while the spren are coming back, they are coming back as *something different*. Imagine if this is so: Do the spren tribes even *want* their deadeyes to be brought back to life? How do they reconcile the place of these new spren? This preserves the impact of the Recreance, albeit in different form. The reason I point this out is not to try and undermine the "Adolin Edgedancer" argument. The argument is there and sound (and has been largely discussed to death). If Maya comes back the way she was, then in all likelihood Adolin will go Edgedancer. I think the interesting question - specifically why I mentioned it in the thread about Mayalaran is going to be revived as a Cultivationspren or something else.

Good theory! I suspect that the 3rd sibling was the one that was bonded at the time of the Recreance and was damaged severely by the actions of the Radiants at that time. We know that the sibling itself slumbers, would it be possible that it is in fact slumbering in Shinovar? - This could be why the Shin are so sacred about stone? This could also possibly be why the Shin were entrusted with the keeping of the honorblades? Although, we saw a Shin man finding them after Aharietem, so the two things may be separate and different. Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if Shinovar plays a big part in the next book. Especially with Szeth's stated crusade.

I think the loving part of Adolin is pretty clear. He loves his family and loves Shallan. It's a big part of his motivations. If we are looking for healing in Adolin's story, we see it in his interactions with Shallan and Maya. With Shallan he is helping heal her fractured psyche. With Maya he is helping heal her identity. I don't think there is any problem with him being an Edgedancer; even if I think others might suit him better. I like the Maya revival story and agree that it would probably be the best path to Adolin's radiance if it occurs. I just think a more interesting variation of that story would be if the process of revival caused a fundamental shift in Maya's identity, causing her to become a different spren. This would, in my opinion, give credence to the significance of her "death"; that you just can't fix things so they go back to the way they were. Instead, you overcome problems by moving forward and changing; a theme which is very consistent with the fundamental ideas in the stormlight archive. I could imagine a scene where Adolin becomes radiant and he speaks to his spren: "Maya?" "Mayalaran is who I was. I can't be her any longer. Not if I want to move forward. Now I am <name>"

The sacrifice bit mostly comes from this: I think selflessness and love of life is very consistent with Adolin though. I'm just not sure that is entirely what the edgedancers are about.

It's not just you. I know that many people have pointed out the elements of Adolin which are consistent with the edgedancers but I agree it doesn't fit with the character as a whole. While I wouldn't have said it before Oathbringer, I am coming around to the Adolin stoneward theory. We consistently see him taking on impossible odds and prevailing - just. We know this to be a characteristic of Talenel who is said to embody the stonewards. We know that the stonewards emphasise self sacrifice from the chapter prefaces in oathbringer and this is also something that is very consistent with Adolin. He was even willing to (erroneously) "step aside" for Shallan to be with Kaladin if that made her happier. His murder of Sadeas can also be seen in this light - Adolin sacrificing himself via expected punishment for the greater good (perhaps). He is also determined in the face of his father and social pressure from his peers. That and Dalinar often refers to him as "solid dependable Adolin" or similar. There are also a lot of little things in oathbringer - when he is in Kholinar he feels like he walks straighter when he is wearing his uniform. He feels more at place wearing the outfit in shadesmar. I think this speaks to him embracing that "soldier" element of his personality and putting the "fop" part behind him. Something that may or may not speak to him embracing the "role" of the stonewards by reference to the notion of Talnelel as herald of war. I think that may have been some of the character growth we did see in Adolin though oathbringer; that and the humility gained in Kholinar and Shadesmar; however this would be equally applicable growth to both Stonewards and Edgedancers I suspect. Stonewards because he recognises that he is just another soldier, edgedancers because he gains insight into what it is like to be powerless. There also could be significance to his distaste for flying - preferring to keep his feet on the ground. That said, we don't know enough about the stonewards to be certain of this - all of what I have said is extrapolation and speculation. The stonewards could be completely different to what we have seen so far and this theorising is bupkis. But from what we have seen about them - self sacrifice, determination, courage - Adolin fits them very well. There is a real problem in how stonewards fit in though. Self sacrifice is very much tied to protection which is more of a windrunner thing. However, that could also explain why we see the windrunner and stonewards operating together so often in the books. It would also present an interesting interaction between Adolin and Kaladin; both driven to "protect" in different ways and for different motivations.

I would think that you would require a whole lot of investiture to repair the damage done to a spren with a broken nahel bond. There was no implication that cultivation spren are peaceful. Pruning is required for cultivation. However, existence as solely a sword for centuries (with a shattered mind) is not conducive to the self identity as a grower of things.

The idea of Adolin reviving Mayalaran is interesting. However I am not sure it is the justification that Adolin would become an Edgedancer that people think it is. There is a quote form WoB about the severing of the Nahel bond being something like the ripping out of wetware. This does substantial damage to the spren. Why do we assume that even if she is revived Mayalaran will be the same that she was before. Perhaps in reviving her Adolin will change Mayalaran. Perhaps the experience will change her. It may be that she will revive as a very different spren than what she once was. This would be consistent with the notion that spren are "ideas given life" as discussed at the start of WoR. Adolin heals Mayalaran by giving her some of himself and in doing so changes her nature. Or, her time as a Shardblade has changed her nature. She may no longer be a cultivation-spren focused on giving life but instead a spren of battle, war or protection; because that is all she has known since the Recreance; or that is the idea that Adolin has rebuilt her with. I think that would be an even more interesting story than that of Adolin returning her to what she once was; instead the bond changed her into something completely different.