Vindicator

You didn't confuse me, don't worry. What I think we differ on here is that you think that Brandon meant 'perks' and what I mentioned, like savantism, are different. This is inaccurate though, since your WoB doesn't make the distinction. I think Brandon may have grouped the two categories together in the context of that WoB - look at this annotation for Alloy of Law, for example. Yes, this is something I lean towards as well. The Radiants are... more 'bound', so to speak; to be Invested they need to channel through the Nahel bond, and their oaths seem to improve their Stormlight efficiency. Allomancers, Feruchemists and Twinborn do not need to worry about this. So for Twinborn to have their pseudo-third ability manifest the same way? It doesn't add up. On a different note, I am interested in what a Twinborn Aluminum Misting/Nicrosil Ferring could do; create raw, pure Investiture perhaps? That is, if it doesn't just remove the Investiture to begin with.

Is there a WoB for that? Because the context of what Yata posted includes savantism, given that Brandon specifically mentions Mistborn. Don't get me wrong, there's definitely an unique effect - I read that same passage in the Ars Arcanum you did. What I'm skeptical about is that they manifest as Radiant-esque traits - I firmly believe it has more to do with unexpected usages of both Allomancy and Feruchemy in tandem. In a small way, you can already see this in say, Wax's steelpushing with his weight increased or decreased. I also do not think we have enough information to compare Surgebinding to the Metallic Arts just yet. We barely know how the Surges can be used separately; to jump off on a tangent and compare it to a Shardic system with vastly different intentions is somewhat premature. Given Brandon's writing, I think it's unlikely that we would not have noticed any interesting, unnatural perks beyond mere skill in both Wax and Wayne (Miles has only one book, so I'll put him aside). Wayne's ability in disguising himself seems more like a skill he's learned over the years because of his capacity to empathize with others. This is unlike Shallan's mnemonic ability for example, which I think always had that supernatural implication to it. The Skybreakers, we have yet to see from anyone, and it will require more information. No, the Windrunners' ability to gather a large number of Squires is probably not natural, especially given the WoB (in light of this I will most definitely concede what I said earlier of the Radiant Orders). But I am already convinced of that - Jezrien was after all, the Herald of leadership. I am not convinced though, that the Twinborn we've seen would suddenly gain a Radiant-esque talent that cannot be explained by mere mixing of the powers until we have further evidence.

But in this case, the only time Brandon has spoken about Mistborn lacking those quirks was in the original trilogy, where Vin realizes all the Mistings in the crew are better at their metal than she and Kelsier are, because they've used it for so long without anything else, and thus have more experience. Marsh says that Mistborn often neglect bronze and copper as well, while training her. Therefore, the 'perks' you mention include those. And the Surges are not Allomancy or Feruchemy. They're still a relatively-unknown magic system, and I think likening it to the latter two is an exercise in futility until we understand more about the powers. I don't think anyone even knows precisely what most of the Surges can do, let alone the 'God Surges'. We have yet to see Wax, for example, exhibit anything like the Lightweavers and Skybreakers were claimed to be able to do, or Wayne, or Miles. For all we know, the Lightweavers' memory retention may be down to their artistic tendencies, not their powers. The Skybreakers could be similar - deal out the law long enough and it's no surprise you can tell if someone is guilty.

I would not read too much into this. It probably means that because you have less powers to practice on, you get better at what you have - and therefore the interactions he mentions are more likely to be something you figure out since you use nothing else but those. It likely is possible for a full Mistborn or Feruchemist or Fullborn to be capable of say, something like Wax's steel bubble (which is from being a steel savant) if you put in the practice. Kelsier was good at steel and iron, Vin seems to be pretty good at Soothing and using pewter, along with steel. Spook would be pretty good at tin, and I doubt being a full Mistborn would have changed that (although the supersensitivity and physical damage has been reverted). Also note that all those Mistborn have had little time to truly learn their Allomancy - Kelsier has 2-3 years before his death, Vin 4-5 years. Only Spook gets a lifetime - and his abilities post-Catacendre haven't been expanded upon. Now contrast this to Wax, who has 28 years after his year in the Terris village to use Allomantic steel and Feruchemical iron. Given this, it's no surprise that he can do the steel bubble trick.

Yes, I forgot about the Words of Founding. Then again, I'd presume not all the metals are found everywhere, and even knowing they exist doesn't mean the Southerners would have been able to make them (they were in a state of near-destruction when Kelsier first found them). I believe Harmony wanted people to learn and develop on their own as well, so he would have chosen to withhold some things. IIRC, he did this for electricity or something else in SoS or BoM. If it has electrum you could probably sidestep not having atium, though. I am curious now as to what metals are commonplace in southern Scadrial.

That's true, and given the Bands of Mourning I guess he wouldn't need to spike himself too much. I wonder just how much he learned about Hemalurgy, though. More than TLR ever did? Unlikely, given the millenium Rashek had, but you never know.

He did spike his eye with one though...

I personally think Dalinar would be inclined to give it to a trustworthy user who could actually wreck some havoc with the Surgebinding it provides. A combination of those two is rare, though. All I can think of that fits the two would be Kaladin (who doesn't need it), Bridge Four (of which only Skar and Teft are likely to be any good with it, and Moash's treachery is an issue) and finally Adolin. Adolin is the only one who makes sense; he's the best duelist in Alethkar, he's very much a capable combatant that even Sadeas thinks is reminiscent of the Blackthorn and he survived maulings by Szeth twice, meaning he would know how the Surges can be used in combat. The only problem I see is that he already has a Shardblade, but it could possibly be given to another. However, this is all assuming Dalinar still tries to think like a general. If he chooses to think like a diplomat, it's possible he gives the Honorblade to a nation who needs it (I really, really hope Taravangian doesn't reobtain it in the name of Jah Keved), or just decide to stow it for research and defending Urithiru.

Well, the Lord Ruler was already dead by then, and he definitely did not create it because of something that we saw in Secret History: That, plus what the figure says in the coppermind Wax obtains from Hoid makes it very unlikely TLR made the Bands. Remember, the original ones were pawned off for the atium.

Err... how far have you read into the Bands of Mourning? If you haven't, you shouldn't be reading this, but:

Okay, so I think we all know that the Bands of Mourning are incredibly powerful - but that's not really what I'm interested in. It's the limitations that interest me. If Kelsier created them post-Catacendre, that raises the question of just how many metals are woven into the Bands. We know gold, nicrosil, iron, steel and zinc are inside, but what of the others? Lerasium is unlikely since it all got used up. Atium as well, given that the Pits were destroyed, and Marsh holds the last few bits. From there, we can assume malatium is not in it as well. What about aluminum, though? Or duralumin? Electrum? It doesn't seem like Kelsier learned of them, although Spook could have told him (but he might not have known as well, since there's no reason for a Tineye to really learn about those metals, and he didn't become Mistborn until after the Catacendre). Also, how long did it take for bendalloy and cadmium to be found? Given the possibilities, the Bands of Mourning could very well be more limited than what we see at first glance, and I can see how it might not help against a weaker, but atium-using Mistborn if that happens in the future books.

What interests me more is that one doesn't need a connection to all three Realms to take up a Shard's power, nor do they need the right connection, since they can bypass it, like Kelsier did with the orb he stole from the Ire. I wonder if there's another Shard out there that was forcibly taken like this. It could also explain how Devotion and Dominion lost to Odium, maybe it wasn't so much plain trickery or some arcane method as much as it was that Odium is perfectly connected to Rayse, and thus he can draw on more of its power.

It likely does. It was both referring to something that happened in that chapter, and also referring to the underlying theme in the story - honor is dead. It was also a very subtle foreshadowing of what was to come, like a word with many meanings.

I personally think the chapter name is just a subtle way of foreshadowing the revelation that God is dead at the novel's end. Happened recently? No. I think it happened around the time of the Last Desolation (sometime after the prologue scene, where the Heralds abandoned mankind).

Upvotes for dj and Voidus for loving football. I'm a Gooner meself Anyway, I'm from Malaysia. Some of you lot might know it as the nation bordering Singapore. It's... not a place I'd choose to live in, but I was born there and thus, I make the best of what I can. Good food though IMO.

Brandon Sanderson said it, I believe. Metalminds have less Investiture methinks

Hello! Glad to have you around. And when you're done with Mistborn, seek out the Way of Kings. Far more epic, IMO.

Shards are Pushable, I think - you just need an immense amount of power to do it. One example Brandon gave was being infused with the Well of Ascension's power.

That spike's protected. At least after The Final Empire.

Oops, forgot that. What I meant was, did anyone before Kelsier's time kill one? Say, one of the Great Houses had a scandal that a certain Inquisitor found out, and then their Mistborn killed him and covered it all up? Just an example, but I can't see Inquisitors winning every Allomancer fight they were in until Kelsier came along.

As long you remove their heads, it should be okay, regardless of decapitation or explosion, since it removes the spikes as well.

I think the best way is to attack an Inquisitor from far away. It's pretty hard to kill one in melee combat - not only are they stronger, they can heal themselves if needed. If you could use something like the stone-tipped arrows Vin had, and shoot it with enough force to puncture their brain it might work. Also, I'm curious. Besides Kelsier, Vin, Sazed and Elend, has anyone else ever fought an Inquisitor and won? I'd love to ask Brandon this.

I know right? World-shattering theory!

Totally agree, never really liked Egwene, especially after she joined the Aes Sedai.