Justi

I always thought Adolin will die and his death will effect Dalinar and Renarin. Especially Dalinar since he expect so much from Adolin and almost nothing from Renarin in The first book. But Sanderson messed up everything with Shallan. I hate his story now. Sadeas’s death is great moral dilemma and Adolin is only important person who is not knights radiant. This alone makes him very special. I’m afraid he will live.

Why of course this is why I made a account: complain Why you did? And don’t worry, I’m going. Yes I know all of you are around awhile together. It is pretty evident because you are all thinking certain way now. I’m not judging, this is natural result of begin close community. Sorry to be a stranger here. And yes I know there will be 10 books but also Oatbringer supposedly should be about Dalinar. Which is a big lie. Why should I believe other books will be faithful to their main characters?

Do you really think Renarin’s story in the 6-10 books will be special? His everyday struggles, his bond with his spren, his situation in the family (he is the person everyone tried to protect) and even his possible healing will not be special because Sanderson will write everything to Shallan by the time of 6th book. He already wrote some of it. Oh I’m sure Sanderson will bring “special new unimportant something(!)“ for him since he had do but those things are far far away from the plot and I expect effect will be like “new house elf coming to the Hogwarts for Parvati Patil. “ (I have nothing against house elfs btw just to point small things are not real ”story arc”)

I’m talking about something different than changing character’s title or job. Kaladin’s plot is still same as Sanderson presented. Those changes are part of his plot. Didn’t you predicted those things? “Radiant who have some sort of disorder” was Renarin’s story. Sanderson tried to make Shallan “likeable” so he gave Renarin’s story to Shallan. Renarin completely overshadowed now. I’m going to do that and I’m not going to read 4th book. I just want to write my opinion before I go because I really liked Kholin clan and Kaladin.

If Shallan’s writing was good there should have been endless discussion about her motives and her choices and her story arc. This is what we call good writing. You can write most hated character easily. This doesn’t mean anything. And Sanderson changed her plot for every other book. She was the girl who had to do bad things for her Family to girl who is betrothed to Prince and changed again in 3rd book. You don’t know what Sanderson will come with 4th book. What bad for me is she is constantly killing or stealing stories of Renarin,Adolin, Kaladin, Jasnah and others. This is bad writing. And it doesn’t mean when I say I hate Shallan I would like to see damsel in distress instead of her. I found this belief offensive. And Shallan’s way of solving problem (marriage) very lame. I would have call her damsel in distress for this but even they are better.

Imagine waiting Harry Potter book like that: Being curious about house elf Dobby or Molly Weasley’s clock or Sorting Hat I think this is the difference between “real fan” or “random reader”. I lost the plot in this series and lost almost all of the main arcs. I can’t concentrate anything now.

If Adolin will not become the King there is no point for Sadeas arc. He had to be perfect heir before and now he can return to be spoiled prince or become a normal soldier or be jailed for life. It doesn’t change anything for anyone. It is so funny after the 2nd book everybody was like “what Adolin did was wrong/right”, kinda like Phoenix’s Joker. Now all of this is forgotten and became unimportant because Sanderson neglect to write anything in OB about this. Excited for 4th book really? I expected big Family clash from Sadeas/Adolin/Dalinar story (Kaladin taking sides too) But this probably What Sanderson will write: Shallan going to talk with Dalinar. Shallan going to talk with Adolin. And Dalinar accepts Adolin’s desicion in front of the Shallan. They all live happily ever after with Shallan. Ah don’t forget Shallan to have baby

She is one of the least favorite character in this poll just behind Sadeas (%14) and Amaram (%13) and Shallan is %12. She is one of the least favorite alive in this poll. And I can find many comments peoples are skipping her chapters. There is a thread called Shallan Davar disgust thread you can find innocent new members here and there. I don’t read her chapters but I’m reading comments.

Oh I like that You can justify anything and everyone By the way he is right, being divisive is very good only If it is your choices or motives are questioned like Phoenix’s Joker for example. Some peoples agree, some peoples disagree. Peoples are talking all about you. This is good because we can only learn by talking. For example Joker’s film critics were amazing not just because film is amazing. Because they torned apart every scene of the film and found tiny little things. But Sanderson is talking about a character which ignored by half of her audience. Peoples skipped Shallan’s pages and really I don’t want to came up with that but what peoples are mostly talking about her is love triangle. You can write some soap opera and be divisive as Shallan now. Really Sanderson?

This is why I almost tear of my copy of OB. There is a phrase about books,cinema, TV: “Show, don’t tell”. I much prefer to read how Adolin is dealing with pressure or what choices he does have or how he made his desicion seperately. Instead of building story up to Adolin and Dalinar’s final meet, there is a one chapter we read everything from Shallan’s mouth. Great way to kill tension between Dalinar and Adolin. This encounter was most anticipated thing for me after 2nd book. It become so anticlimax I’m not curious about 4th book at all. Bad writing. .And I’m a woman. I agree life is too hard for us and for female characters too. But Shallan is just a badly written character. I’m sure Sanderson agrees with me since he made so many changes on her. If he wants to portray amazing female hero please be inspired from real amazing female hero. What you did for Shallan is not working.

I made a post about PR tactics in this page but I don’t know how to link it. Sorry about this. What I see is he used every PR trick and those thing made whole story change. Whole thing become unreadable for me. Yes I agree he can choice how to present his character. And this is why I don’t mind when he overhype Shallan. But stealing Renarin’s story and Kholin marriage only come up in OB, those are big story arc changes and they are not in the plot. He should remain faithful to plot. Maybe you don’t feel pressure but I’m certainly feeling pressure. I had to love Shallan. Otherwise nothing to read for me. Which is why I’m stopping. I hope in the future another author will be inspired by Dalinar/Kaladin/Adolin/Renarin and Jasnah. Amazing characters who deserve their stories to be told without intervention.

Yes, This is result of Sanderson’s PR work. She have disadvantaged backround so we had to celebrate her every tiny little improvement. This doesn’t work for me because this is actually Renarin’s story. In first two book I celebrated his every tiny little improvement. With OB, why I had to change Renarin to Shallan? Only story I want read for Shallan in 4th book is her death, preferably direct result of Adolin and Kaladin’s actions and mistakes. I want to read their regrets. She killed all the stories I eagerly waited. I can’t find a story she is not in it. Crazy.

In first two books there small but consistent work to create good image for her. In real life, some celebrities uses that. Everyday they have good articles about them. They pay news outlets money because they want their name associated with good things. Sanderson dedicated some chapters to this. “She made a desicion which shows how clever she is” or “she is helping who have need, good girl” or “how great friend she is” or “how strong she is despite to her circumstances” bla bla bla. This doesn’t bother me because I can easily skip all of it. This is Sanderson’s choice, as a author he absolutely can do it. But he had to accept, as a reader I might not want to read. Those are small things but in the 3rd book Sanderson’s two PR tactics killed all my enjoyment. First he gave Shallan amazing excuse, so she is free of all the criticism. She have personality disorder If she does something bad, you can’t criticize her because this version is not real Shallan. If she does something amazing, you had to congratulate her because she overcome amazing difficulties. Some celebrities uses this tactic. You can’t criticize them because they have disadvantaged backrounds. If you criticize them you are Nazis. I have problem for this because I liked Renarin’s story in first two books. He had autism, he was strange. He worked with bridge four, he wanted to be son Dalinar wants. But Shallan’s disorder completely overshadowed Renarin. Sanderson sold me Renarin story in first book. But with 3rd books he changed plot. Now Renarin’s story become Shallan’s story. As a reader this is a slap on my face. I wanted to read Kaladin/Renarin, Renarin/Dalinar/Adolin and Renarin growing. There is no room now. 2nd tactic is using “Halo Effect”. Almost every reader likes one of the Kholins, right? Dalinar, Jasnah, Adolin, Navani or Renarin. They are most liked family in the books. Now Shallan is another Kholin Family member and this will gave her positive impression. But I hated this story too. I’m girl and I really can enjoy good “Handsome Prince” story. But eveything in OB done very quickly. No base, no anticipation, no climax. Her story with Adolin really feels flat. Laughable. End of the second book I was really curious about Dalinar and Adolin’s relationship. I liked heir apparent tension between father and son. Now I had to read “Shallan is helping Adolin with Dalinar, how cute” thing. Slap on my face again.

I voted Shallan and I find this so funny her results are with Sadeas and Amaram. When your female lead is on par with bad guys for popularity... This tells you a lot. And I’m a woman btw. I never enjoyed her chapters so mostly I skipped her chapters. But in Oathbringer her story is in everywhere.I want to enjoy from what I read. I don’t want to spend my time with Sanderson’s PR tactics to make her likeable. It is so obvious. I’m sorry but I’m expecting her death spoiler for 4th book before buying the book. If she is not death I’m finished with this series. Normally I would respect writer. It is his choice afterall. But no, enough is enough. Don’t force her on us.

He was one of my favorites. I would like to read his struggle with kingdom since thanks to Sadeas’s murder he will be very unpopular heir. Also I would like to read how Dalinar will deal with him. Unfortunately he is on his way to become radiant (I’m afraid Sanderson will not stop until everyone in the books becomes radiant ) Also marriage with Shallan is very bad idea for his character. He could be much more than “a prince who will heal” her.

Dont you think saving Kaladin’s friends with words would be impossible since concept of becoming Radiant only become avaiable end of the first book and long before Kaladin’s friends died which is beginning of the first book? All the long long explanations doesnt mean “There is dangerous situation, I’m going to say words and then I’m out of it” is not perfect example of deus ex machina. Couple of rediants should be dead in dangerous situations before we says otherwise.

Every person who life is in danger suddenly becomes radiant and then she/he lives. (except king and even he almost saved) How is this normal? Clearly this is will of the god. Thank god Can you imagine in Harry Potter series ordinary peoples suddenly become witches/wizards in life threatening circumstances? Or in Name of the Wind suddenly ordinary peoples use power of names to save their lives? Martin is famous with no coming “deus ex machina” so I’m not even going to name anyone from his books. But If a Sanderson character is in trouble no need to worry. He will be radiant And everything will be OK.

Yes “deus ex machina” criticism was for all of the books. Especially everyone suddenly becoming radiant. Of course he explained the path Jasnah created for Shallan by arranging fairytale marriage and forget to lucky theft. I’m criticising why Sanderson choose this path. It is very shallow way. If she handled her own family affairs it would be much more harder for Shallan but more respectful for her character. Sometimes I think he choose her name because of it. Shallan=Shallow I ilke fantastic fiction books very much, I Often compare characters between books. I can see Kaladin, Dalinar, Adolin living their lifes at other fiction books or in real world. They can live Rothfuss’s or Martin’s worlds as humans without radiant powers since they have strong characters. They take matters on their hands and fights. Same goes for Kvothe, Devi, Maer or characters from GoT living in here, WoK. But I cant see Shallan living anywhere. She mostly depend on Sanderson’s grace for survival. I really dont expect characters solves everything like they are in real world. But it is not a fairytale or Romantic book for 15-18 years of age girl. Perfect prince to solve everything? Shallow.

Very rude as in my country too. But I never think Kaladin’s actions against Renarin as abuse of disabled person since he doesnt know problems of Renarin. He saw him only as prince. (Same goes for Zahel and other peoples) You speak like I need millions of peoples to support me otherwise my opinions will not matter because I’m only 1 person in this thread. I also want to add, of course I don’t have authority in my country, I just had to explain reception of the books in here. We have small fantastic fiction group. (Not just Sanderson’s book) We dont understand Shallan at all. Yes she often found things on the way without knowing anything about them and this is why most of her “gains” actually “deus ex machina”. We dont know, she dont know, other characters dont know but what she does works everytime.

I remember once Dalinar thought his son managed to look pitiful even in shardplate. (Pitiful might not be exact word since I read books other language than English) Every other character even Renarin’s himself remarked his fighting ability badly. I really dont understand why we should be angry to Kaladin? It is not like what Kaladin said is a lie. Eh I didnt open Shallan disgust thread, am I? I also want to add in my country there was two big criticism for books. First Shallan being too boring. Second, only way to solve problem in the books is “deus ex machina”. Everytime somebody is in danger they are turning to the radiants bla bla bla. We hope Sanderson can work on those things.

No. 1) Considering Jasnah only because “Dalinar/Adolin didnt want to rule, Gavinor too young” insults both Jasnah and The Crown. In the history If there is more than one heir to the throne, it always made the crown weak. If Jasnah is going to be Queen there shouldnt be questions about her. Imagine Jasnah made a desicion Dalinar didnt like. What is going to happen? Dalinar will force her like Elhokar? What is the point of Jasnah being a Queen If she is only placeholder? You cannot really rule this way. 2) I like Jasnah because she often speaks her mind, no matter what others think. She is determined and stubborn. If she made her mind there is no going back. I like those things. I like her personality but as a Queen it wouldnt work. Her best qualitys will be her downfall as ruler. If she is going to be succesfull as Queen, she needs to change a lot. I dont want to see Jasnah becoming enterily different person. She is smart. She may create some kind of constitutional monarchy which may have work. But it would take so much from her and general story of books. I just prefer Dalinar and Adolin doing their jobs.

If I try to stole from my friends or random peoples, I -Probably-will not get away easily. My relationship with my friend or other peoples would be hurt. If my family have money/reputation problem I -probably- will not find a sweet prince to solve this problem. If I talk badly about other poor peoples, I’m very sure I will not get away with “she is spoiled lighteyes, she believe she is superior, she grow up like that what can she do, poor little thing?” line. Maybe you can relate her problems but the way she solves, no, this is not real. Is she really “the person who stands up despite his or her difficulties?” My understanding is Sanderson protects her from everything, everytime. If she is in the real world her story would be very different from Sanderson’s world. This makes her unreal for me. For example I wrote here why I didnt like her. Of course I got a lot of criticism: how I’m talking about her without reading her chapters, I’m not sempatic enough for her traumas or I expect so much from her, maybe I should read fairytales. List goes on. This is very normal behaviour for humans actually. Only Shallan gets away with it in the books. Why? Sanderson’s interfence about Shallan is so much, it really wear me out every chapter I read. He spends so much time and energy to make her character work. Sad thing about him is, it is not working. It is exhausting for him and for us.

I’m sure If I try to sell a character, I can write same wonderful things about him/her too. For example I can write how a bridge four member saved the day, how he give our main characters hope, feel them better, how he made other characters interesting bla bla. (Same goes for other minor characters) Those things alone shouldnt be enough to call character İmpressive since it is pretty normal behaviour for fantastic fiction. But that is not the point because what I mean with “something impressive” is “something impressive for readers”. Did her split personality raised her popularity? Suddenly she become interesting character everybody wanted to know more about? Will 4th book will be about her new Powers? No. Any other hero/antihero in same path created some exciment. Except Shallan.

Characters with big traumas and difficult chilhood... All fanstasy books, all comic books, all literature actually full with this characters. (Films too) We love them, we enjoy them. I’m trying to remember a fantasy book with main hero/heroine have good childhood and incredible life. I dont remember one. “Peoples doesnt relate them, never understand them”, this is not true. Some of those heros even turned to bad peoples and audience liked them anyway. Big trauma leads different identites, split personality, we saw this in fiction and comic books before. This was cool feature for heros, heartbroken/sempatic backround for antiheros. It always worked. So far only Shallan failed to create something impressive with that.

Hi. I also signed up for this issue. I just finished first two books. I’m really really really trying to read her chapters but I often found myself skipping pages. Beginning of the books I never liked her because her solution to problem was kind of lame. She spend all of their money because she believe she had to stole from another. For me, clever person -for some reason every other character tries to sold us she is clever- never puts all eggs in one basket. Not only she gambled all the money, but her reason is her family will be poor and her brothers will sold as slave. Eh same time we are reading how Kaladin dealing wtih slavery. Feeling sorry for her family’s “possible” slavery is very hard after that. I also dont like her storyline, I found very shallow. She married love of her life and her problem in the first book solved with that. Her family is safe. She didnt lost Jasnah’s friendship. Kaladin is always there for her If something didnt work with Adolin. She is radiant and powerful. Yep she had bad childhood but even this become something good. Now she have many identities she can use which is very cool. I’m not saying she should suffer like Kaladin but at least she should lost something other than abusive father and mother who wanted to kill her. She was so favored even death of her parents good for her. Puff.