TheManKnownAsHoid

2 minutes ago, Ishar said:

I feel like I saw somewhere (and I also feel that my mind is making this up) that Ruin was in fact trying to get a spike in Kelsier before he died but was unsuccessful. Maybe it was a different character. I think that naturally the next question that comes to my mind is what would Ruin do with Kelsier after spiking him?

He would continue trying to defeat the Lord Ruler, as he was the only person stopping Ruin's return. Kelsier's plan of becoming a martyr to create hope couldnt be part of Ruin's plan, as it is to create, not to Ruin. And I believe the person you are thinking of is Yomen. It was mentioned that "curiously" Ruin never managed to spike him.

I am theorizing that Ruin was trying to Hemalurgically spike Kelsier on that final day. He likely died from the hit before the spear touched his blood, or it hit the wrong bindpoint, or any number of things. But it is too specific to discount. And I have read Secret History.

On 8/3/2018 at 7:02 PM, Ishar said:

Honestly, I am kinda confused as to what this theory is trying to say, and how it is relevant to current and future cosmere.

Yes, this is asking me to clarify. And I want people who disagree with it to post, and for them to poke holes in it. Saying "its not a theory" adds nothing to the discussion. I was trying to start a discussion about why Kelsier's death specifically had someone spiked through the chest, and then that same spike used to stab another person. That is Hemalurgy. The only person who would have needed Intent is the rebel who stabbed him, which is easy enough for Ruin to do. As for motivation, Hemalurgically spiking Kelsier would have possibly saved his life, as his organs moved to accommodate the spike, like in the Inquisitor's eye spikes. Kelsier was Ruin's agent on Scadrial.

17 hours ago, KalaDANG said:

 All I’m saying is that whether or not TLR could have been hemalurgically spiked depends entirely upon whether or not the rebels stabbing him with spears only stabbed hard enough to just barely get the metal heads in, which would technically allow for hemalurgical side effects, or if the rebels stabbed him with enough force that the spear head went ALL THE WAY THROUGH HIM and stuck out the other side of his body, leaving him with only the wooden haft still inside of him and the metal heads not touching his insides. HE CAN’T BE HEMALURGICALLY SPIKED IF THE METAL ISN’T TOUCHING HIS INSIDES. Sure, maybe it would be active for a split second when touching blood or whatever like you said, but as soon as the head passes out of his body on the other side, it wouldn’t affect him anymore. 

In no way was it suggested that TLR was the one gaining the Hemalurgic power. TLR was being spiked by the rebels and then into Kelsier. TLR is like the sacrifices, while Kelsier is like the Inquisitor. 

1 hour ago, Ishar said:

From what I do understand, I don't see why it is relevant, and generally, when something is irrelevant it is wrong simply because it is simply adding more complexity to the books (I think we all know the Cosmere has plenty), and is pointless.

It is relevant because it has spawned 23 posts and created an interesting discussion. And the whole point of the Cosmere Discussion forum is to discuss irrelevant theories and minutiae about the Cosmere. We dont have to do this. We do it because we want to. We want to discuss this theory.

1 hour ago, Wander89 said:

It was Kelsier's "death" that truly connected me to the Cosmere universe. When that happened, after everything he and Vin went through, I was in a state of sadness for days. This was a character that I connected with and he showed true traits of a Robin Hood-hero. After further reading and realisation that there is more to this, I think it's safe to say that he's pretty obsessive. This one is gonna be a RAFO for what his true plan is and if there is influence somewhere. Personally I don't think that Ruin had left a mark.

This is why I love Brandon. He connects us to his characters. I had a similar reaction to the end of Lev Grossmans The Magicians. I was depressed for multiple days.

1 hour ago, KalaDANG said:

Yeah sorry I meant the head of the spear. My bad. But we’re talking about the Lord Ruler, and he was standing up the whole time. We don’t really know if the rebels that stabbed TLR used enough force to get the head of the spear all the way through his body so the metal head of the spear wouldn’t be touching him. It all kind of depends on that. If we’re talking about Kelsier getting spiked though, I dunno what the point of spiking him would be. He was dead anyways.

The spear head doesnt have to leave the body. If it did, when Inquisitors are made, the spike would have killed them before it gained a Hemalurgic charge. And the book clearly had the rebels shove 2 spears right through his body. It gains its Hemalurgic charge as soon as it touches moving blood.

Hmmm, he was flat on the ground from the Lord Rulers hit when he was stabbed. So the head was likely stopped by the ground before leaving his body.

I dont think the head matters. The Inquisitors' eye spikes poked out the back

Why would it have to be relevant to the current or future cosmere? Its relevant to the past in the cosmere. As long as it provides something to think about and consider, it is worth posting. 

1 hour ago, Weltall said:

Setting aside that the sheath can block Nightblood or an ordinary Shardblade because it's aluminum*, there's also the impossibility of it being a spike. Creating a hemalurgic spike requires Intent with a capital I, The Intent can be provided by an external source (Ruin was doing this regularly during Hero of Ages) but 'accidental hemalurgy' isn't possible. Nightblood has no reason to know about hemalurgy and is thus incapable of providing the necessary Intent.

Could the "Rioting" that Nightblood does cause the person who is stabbing themselves to have Intent? We know it can cause them to do specific things, like stab themselves in the chest rather than other places.

But this is Harmony telling the Kandra things to tell Wax. It was heavily implied that Trellium was unknown to Harmony.

I cant find that WOB in Arcanum, but he definitely had at least one spike at the end of Bands of Mourning. And he didnt have metals as a cognitive shadow, so we have no way of knowing.

So in Shadows of Self, we see a Kandra using a Trellium spike to give herself Allomantic Powers. Harmony says he didnt know this was possible. But this WOB from 2012 says different.

Quote

NinjaMeTimbers

What would happen if you gave [a mistwraith] a spike imbued with steel Allomancy? I'm assuming that wouldn't be enough to grant it sentience but could it then use steel powers? Can you give Allomantic powers to a kandra?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy can give Allomantic powers to a kandra. The process to do so is not known to anyone but Harmony.

source

Anybody know why?

Whenever Vasher throws Nightblood and someone picks it up, they always end their rampage by stabbing themselves specifically through the chest. Is it possible the aluminum sheath is a Hemalurgic Spike, and thats why Nightblood can't cut it? We also have this WOB

Quote

Herald (paraphrased)

What about Hemalurgy in other worlds other than Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Herald (paraphrased)

I again asked with the exception of kandra, have seen Hemalurgy such as people who may have been spiked.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He repeated "You have seen Hemalurgy in other worlds."

source

I find it odd how specific Kelsier's death is. The Lord Ruler is pierced through the chest with a spear, basically a long spike, then uses that spear to stab Kelsier. And we know Ruin was able to manipulate people, particularly unstable people like Vin's mother and Gemmel, so it possible that the rebels who stabbed the Lord Ruler were influenced by Ruin to create a Hemalurgic Spike. And the Lord Ruler still had a spike in his chest when he stabbed Kelsier. This isn't really a theory, I would just like to get the ball rolling on a discussion and throw that out there.

So Gavilar gives the black sphere to Eshonai to give to the Five the day of his assassination. But then he gives another to Szeth and tells him to keep it from the Parshendi? I'm very confused

2 hours ago, 8giraffe8 said:

His metal is Adonalsiumium

(Like Odiumium)

But why would it be the Shard name and not the holder? Wouldnt it be Rayseium? Thats how its been done for Ati and Leras. Harmony didnt like the sound of Sazedium so its called Harmonium, but thats an exception.

It still works as a God Metal. For instance, Trellium. I dont know, this is all wild speculation.

Is it just me, or does Adonalsium sound more like a metal than a force or being? Lerasium, Atium, Trellium, chromium. If it were a force, Adonalisum would sound better. And neither of them sound like a name for a being.

How did Nazh get off Threnody? I thought there were either no perpendicularities or unstable ones on Threnody.

Quote

Argent

Is Vax a planet?  It’s clearly suggested that it is.

Brandon Sanderson

What’s that?

Argent

It’s heavily suggested that it is.

Brandon Sanderson

It is heavily suggested that it is a place.

Argent

It's a place. Okay, I'll take that.

*talking to other attendees* Vax is a place.

Brandon Sanderson

No no, heavily suggested that it's a place, is what I said!

source

So are we sure Vax is a Shardworld? Because this implies it isnt. 

10 minutes ago, John203 said:

Sorry, the shattering happened on a planet called Yolen.

Where does it say that? I cant find anything in the Coppermind or in Arcanum about the location of the Shattering

Ok, so Vax is the Shardworld Brandon refuses to talk about. It is the last word spoken by Ati(Ruin) as he left the Cognitive Realm. Is it possible that Vax is the last place that Ati was without the Shard before his death, in other words, the place where Adonalism was Shattered? It would explain a lot.

Was High Priest Treledees named after VaraTreledees (Denth)?

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

 

9 for the kings Rashek originally granted Allomancy. 1 for Elend. 1 for Hoid. 

 

Does it also count the one Rashek took for himself? Or did he automatically become a Mistborn from holding Preservation's power?