Oudeis

I actually do think people are overestimating how "broken" you have to be. We have Kaladin and Shallan who are... I mean, just SHATTERED, but that doesn't mean it takes something that big. Remember that Shallan was already broken enough to be a Surgebinder before all the REALLY awful stuff we know about. And Renarin is apparently 'broken'. His life has been very difficult, but not only do we not know of any specific trauma in his past, he doesn't generally act like someone barely surviving moment to moment. Of course, we know almost nothing about his past, and Shallan shows someone barely surviving can do a good job of faking real life. So I could be wrong. I personally see the trauma of losing your mother, especially young, as plenty to break you. It doesn't have to be "I am no longer the person I once was, my entire life has changed," it can just be something that makes you really, impossibly sad. Mistborn (almost posted this without mentioning what this was a spoiler of...)

If Sazed died, he would drop a single Shard; Harmony. EDIT: My own question. Miles is a Compounder; his two traits directly interact. Wax is... we don't really have a word for it I don't think. He has two distinct metallic traits which do not directly interact, but provide him with complementary abilities that make either power greater than the sum of its parts. Would Lift be considered a Compounder like Miles, someone like Wax, or a third category all her own? Assume it's in-universe scholars doing the considering, e.g. the Ars Arcanist (Artist Arcana?).

I do find it interesting... some aons are based on being up in the sky looking down at the ground, and the placement of things amidst geography, but other aons are based on Sel's placement in the galaxy, and the way stars appear if you're on the ground looking up. Very curious. If a star went nova, would Aon Ene stop working?

It seems to be the case. Someone suggested that Jasnah broke because she was afraid her mother was going to start torturing sentient spren like Ivory... which seems odd, since would she have any personal connection to sentient spren before she broke and attracted Ivory? Even though she seems more aware than Kaladin of the theoretical existence of sentient spren (like how she seems to think the Nightwatcher is one) I don't see any reason to assume her mother is a sadistic torturer, or for such a moment to be what broke her. I also read into their relationship less awfulness than I get the sense other people do. It happens. Your children grow up, and sometimes that means you grow apart. The adult Jasnah is has less in common with Navani than she might. They can be a bit stiff and formal with each other, there are points of contention, they have conflict. But they still talk, frequently. Navani clearly loves Jasnah very deeply, and Jasnah shows every evidence of returning the feelings (which does not preclude her recognizing that her mother has a certain predatory tendency). Yet when Jasnah has a question about fabrials, or wants to find a way to assist her ward politically, she turns without apparent hesitation to her mother. I dunno. I'm a bit of a Jasnah fanboy, and perhaps I'm deliberately reading into it to make her seem nicer and not as harsh to her mother. I could be wrong.

Thank you, Witborn. Of the exactly two examples we've ever seen of full Ascension, one of them involved hands in some way. The other involved absorbing a power source directly into your body and feeding off of it... exactly like what Nightblood does with Breath. Neither of these examples can possibly be cited to say definitively, this is how it happened once, and therefore how it must happen in 100% of cases. I appreciate that you're very clearly convinced, and I have no intention of trying to shake your conviction. That said, you are very confident for someone who has far more speculation and assumption than fact to support himself. You personally find it unlikely, and I appreciate that. I fully admit that my own arguments are somewhat specious. I'm mostly posting here so that if I'm ever proven right, I can prove that I guessed it in advance. If you find any actual concrete evidence suggesting that Nightblood can't, or won't, take up the Shard of Odium, feel free to provide it. Also, I knew from the very first epigraph of Hero of Ages (which, yes, I did read. And may I say you asked that in a rather snide way) that it was Sazed. "I am, unfortunately, the Hero of Ages." I read that and it was simply exactly the way Sazed, and no one else, would speak. I briefly considered through the book that it was Spook, but eventually dismissed that notion. And for what it's worth, you mention people guessing about hemalurgy. I forget if it was at the end of the second book or start of the third, but I also did deduce that Vin's earring was granting her the power of allomantic bronze. You say that you don't know of anyone who guesses plot points in advance. How often would you have? I see you joined the site in 2010. Since then, the cosmere novels which have come out are: Emperor's Soul, Alloy of Law, Words of Radiance, Sixth of the Dusk and Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell. Two aren't even sequels, and the other two are drastically divergent from their previous books. So basically, you've had the opportunity to see people speculate on one book, Words of Radiance, before it came out. I personally saw several people come up with theories in the intervening years, most of which proved to be false or haven't been proven yet, and many which it turned out to be true. Where is it you go to that the absence of correct guesses about the cosmere is conspicuous? Obviously, feel how you wish. I realize my arguments aren't solid enough to actually change anyone's mind if they aren't inclined to agree with me. However, I hasten to suggest that your certainty that I'm wrong is somewhat premature. And I have stolen enough of teknopathetic's thread. I am shortly going to repost my initial argument in a new, speculative thread, and I would like to politely request that any rebuttals be moved there, so that people can get back to discussing the intent of this thread here.

You're correct that the chromatic scale is non-universal. Some places use the pentatonic scale, some places use others. But that's like saying that in some times and places it was fashionable to wear a bustle, while at the same time in other places it was not seen as untoward for women to wear nothing but necklaces above the waist. There are differences, yes, but inherent fundamentals remain. Both cultures would likely think that neon-pink with puke-green clashed. However you measure the scale, there are some combinations of notes that are simply universally discordant, and others that are universally harmonious. Maybe one country prefers their music on string instruments, maybe some places prefer woodwinds. But there are chords that are simply terrible, regardless of the scale they are set to, and some that are melodic. Of course let me acknowledge that like cacophony, clashing colors might have their place in the grand scheme of "fashion" as a striking contrast sort of thing, but simply putting them together without a broader plan will always be wrong (barring extremely unlikely coincidence).

This is a common theory I see floating around that I personally think holds absolutely no water. First, the VAST PREPONDERANCE of spren in the physical realm are like fish; utterly mindless. It's like worrying that a woman is going to resort to slavery because she trains racehorses. Second, we have no reason to assume spren are harmed in the trapping. When you light a fire, flamespren appear. Are they trapped? Do they hate it? Why would being in a gem be any worse? They are provided with a lot of Stormlight, and we know things in the cognitive realm LOVE stormlight. Most people who train dogs for dog-sledding, for example, LOVE their dogs. They love dogs more than the average person does. They take care of their dogs. They feed their dogs. They shelter their dogs. If they were out for a walk and came upon a random dog, they'd prolly be more likely than the average person to stop and make sure the dog was okay. Yes, they keep their dogs behind a fence, possibly trained to not run away, for the dog's own protection. I feel like a lot of Sharders hear the word "trapped" and assume terrible abuse, and I don't see any evidence in the story to support this theory, nor do I think it's a natural assumption to leap to. If something has a will, or even instinct, putting it in a position where it's trapped or abused or mistreated makes it fight against you. Given that we know most spren crave Stormlight, I suspect that if most spren could think, they'd envy the fabrial spren. And, I cannot stress this enough, there is basically a statistically zero chance of a sentient spren being trapped in a gemstone. Bondable spren (note emphasis) are nonsentient. Any spren in the physical realm that is sentient, has already formed a bond. First of all, we know there are few enough Surgebinders (compared to the hundreds of Creationspren Shallan can summon with a drawing) that the odds of a sentient spren being taken, even if all else were equal, is practically nothing. And it's not equal; the person they're bonded to would in most cases do something to prevent their being put in a gem. Worrying that Syl is going to end up stuck in a fabrial is like an alien coming to this planet, and worrying I'm going to be tested on in a lab when he hears that it happens to mice. But you're both mammals! There's nothing stopping the scientists from picking you instead of a mouse!

I do not agree that this is true. I'm not sure where to look up the proof of this, but there are chords which are inherently harmonious, and ones which are inherently discordant. Some parts of music are taste, yes; some people even like rap. But there remain fundamental truths. Someone above mentioned pink and green. Sometimes it's obvious. But in music there are subtler examples. A chord might be a dozen notes played at once; if a single one of them is a half-step flat, most people listening will be able to tell something is wrong. It takes someone with rare skill to recognize which note was off. Likewise, if an outfit were made of a dozen different items, it's possible anyone could think, this can be improved upon. But for someone of the Third Heightening, do they know instinctively what it is? Can they tell not only, this isn't perfect. Can they tell not only, this is how many steps off true shade every item is. Could they actually glance at an outfit and instantly know, if the purple hat were two shades lighter and one had one step more red in it, it would be perfect. If not, is that something to do with the heightening, or something inherent in sight? Do colors simply not work like that, the way sound does? Mr. Sanderson's use of musical terminology to describe colors led me to wonder. He spoke of red pillars arranged in a scale of ascending thirds; is that inherently pleasing? If two pillars were swapped, would anyone looking at it have a sense of discord, but not have keen enough senses to tell why? Or is it just a conceit? If you took a picture of that palace, and another picture of the same palace with the pillar shades randomized, would an observer even be able to tell, this one is prettier than the other?

Well. things like "willpower" cannot be measured with a teaspoon and measuring cup, so we might never have exact answers. What quantity of "mourning" do I need to work through now that my grandfather's passed away? How much do I love my god-daughter? This might be one of those questions that, if there's an answer, it's not a matter of something chartable. People find ways to deal with willpower issues. Smokers, dieters, high-functioning people. A question like this might best be answered by one of them.

Actually from their interaction I didn't get that from Amaram; she's beautiful, well-connected, wealthy, and brilliant, everything he could desire in a woman. He also believes himself to be significantly smarter than he really is. This is, admittedly, based on gut, but I always got the impression that he came to her, that he revealed something about himself, maybe his plans, or just pressed his suit in an ungentlemanly way. I could see him thinking that anyone as smart as Jasnah would have to see that his plan was brilliant, and being shocked when she shot him down. Or I could see him cornering her, having convinced himself that she wanted him, too, and that something terrible almost, or actually did, happen, and that only afterwards did it get through to him that she wasn't playing hard-to-get. I don't know why I think this, really. From that one scene, Amaram's demeanor and departure, it just gives me the sense that he knows she's has some power here; he did something, and she can rat him out. He's not quite afraid of her, but he knows it's a vulnerability. He's eager to avoid giving offense, because he wants to give her no reason or excuse to escalate anything, to use the weapons against him she has. I fully understand that I'm extrapolating from the scene; I'm certain in a way I cannot justify. This from the guy who knew for sure that Sadeas was bald, and did not notice until his third read-through that one of the first descriptions of Sadeas, the only time his hair is referenced ever, mentions that it cascades down to his shoulders.

1. I already restricted it to color choice; there's no reason to point it out again. 2. It takes a great deal of training, practice and skill to write a symphony, but there's a universally accepted standard. Anyone can tell the difference between cacophony and melody, discord and harmony. Thirds, fifths, major chords, musical keys. These are things that are constant, and someone with perfect pitch is more likely to be able to produce or notice these pleasurable sounds. While obviously if Lightsong wanted to be Ralph Lauren that would require more than sight, you're not actually addressing my question. Certain sound combinations are inherently melodic; whether you prefer ballads, orchestration, syncopation, or even rap, some combinations of notes are pleasant, and some are discordant. What I'm asking is, in this world, is the same true for colors? Could Blushweaver look at her dress with two different scarves, and not just know the specific shades of each one, but also know which one makes a more universally "pleasant" look? The way my friend is able to listen to two minor progressions and automatically tell which would be considered by most to be nicer. Or look at an entire ensemble that seems off somehow, but actually determine that it's the belt which is just a shade too blue, the way my friend can hear a discordant chord and immediately pick out which note is a half-step low, rather than just thinking, "Well that's noise."

Point of View doesn't matter... from Dalinar's perspective, the odd thing he says is, how he talks about unbonding a Blade in the abstract. He talks about it like it's something he's only heard of. "It's supposed to be difficult." Yet regardless of who saw him do it, we know he has already unbonded a Blade. Why is he talking about it like it's something he's only heard spoken of? Please note, these quotes don't really reveal anything new. I didn't find anything in the paragraphs before or after that pertained, but I admit my scrutiny was less than it might have been. Relevant passage from Dalinar: Justice, in Way of Kings That simply, a Blade is unbound. And Adolin. From Ironstance, Words of Radiance. I certainly see nothing, either in the Dalinar scene you quoted or either of these two, to justify your hyperbole of "hardest command to send." We have one comment about how something is "supposed to be" difficult, and two examples of it being a moment's concentration.

Does perfect color recognition come with fashion sense? I have awful fashion sense. I suppose I should restrict it; I make terrible fashion choices that have nothing to do with color. Does it give you a perfect sense of what does or does not 'clash'? Would you be immune to ever again selecting two pieces of clothing that, from a color perspective, go poorly together? Or does simply knowing how many steps away from red your shirt and tie both are distinct from knowing which two shades look more pleasing together, according to people as a whole?

From Adolin's moment, I got the impression that it wasn't simple. If he could have simply ripped off the gem and broken it at the end of his duel, why didn't he? Why make him unbond the Blade, and then shatter the gem? Admittely, he says shattering the gem is for drama anyway, and I suppose I could see the point in forcing him to go to the humiliation of releasing his own bond, but it just feels... odd. Maybe as we learn more that scene will make more sense in hindsight.

Meh. He tends to write at least one main Cosmere book every year, right? And this number will grow at least more consistent, if not higher, now that he's finished the large project that was finishing the Wheel of Time. And he's already written seven of the proposed thirty-six(ish). Twenty-nine more books brings him to something in the neighborhood of 75. Admittedly by then mortality might be something of an issue, but not too large of a one. And given his experiences, and the fact that we know he has an IMMENSE internal wiki, I wouldn't be surprised if he'll have a plan to have someone in mind to finish the cosmere, should the unfortunate happen.

Sorry, forgot to finish my reply earlier. House Ladrian. It's called embezzlement. Basically, Lord Edwarn took money from his House and put it somewhere safe. This is illegal, and pretty obvious. If you just do it to a business (or a House or a company or anything) someone will typically notice, and investigate, and you'll go to jail, and the money will sometimes be put back. It's important to realize that this wasn't Lord Edwarn's personal money; he wouldn't have needed to embezzle that. It belongs to the House, which has obligations to its workers and business partners and such, and even though as Lord he's the steward of this money and makes decisions about it, there are laws in place to prevent him from simply doing with it as he wished. How did he get away with it, then? It's not actually complicated. He looked like an idiot. If you steal a lot of money from someone, they will look poor. However, there's another way for someone to look poor; have them actually be poor. Have them spend more money than they get. Lord Edwarn deliberately cultivated a reputation as a risk-taker, as a poor businessman, as a wastrel. When suddenly the House had no money, no one bothered to check to see if the money had been stolen. It was already obvious that a lot of money had been wasted or lost. No one checked to see if the amount of money they had left was actually a result of what they'd lost through poor business deals. It was very illegal, and very hard to do. Lord Edwarn is smart, and an excellent liar, to have accomplished it.

A little confused. You say Nightblood's not a candidate. Well... pretty much anyone's a "candidate". Not sure what your personal criteria for whether or not someone is a candidate, is. Just that you don't personally find it likely? I disagree that Nightblood would be less interesting as a Shard, or that being a Shard means we'll stop seeing him. (Perhaps see him less, but even the best character eventually fades into the background. I'm confident that if he does fade from the spotlight, at whatever time and in whatever means, Mr. Sanderson will make it an interesting part of the story.) Also, his personality will no more be "gone" than Sazed's was in his brief interaction in Alloy of Law. Nor, truthfully, was Sazed very much in the "background" of that book. His touch and influence was felt everywhere, he was referenced by characters constantly. His time "on screen" was small, but that was because he'd essentially become the scenery the play was set against. Sazed has always been one of my favorite characters, and if anything I enjoyed the part he played in Alloy of Law more than I enjoyed him in the first trilogy. You seem to be assuming that I'm simply wrong in my guess as to how Nightblood will handle the Intent. Moreover, you flat-out state that you assume you're right as to how Odium could possibly be dealt with. Frankly, considering Mr. Sanderson's apparent interest in subverting all tropes and expectations, I see your certainty as, if anything, evidence that Odium will be dealt with in some method other than the obvious ones you insist must happen. Not sure if there's a point in re-stating my point a third time, as I cannot think of a different way to phrase it and you don't seem to be picking up what I'm putting down... Nightblood won't "disagree" with the Intent to "Hate Things" anymore than he currently disagrees with his Command to "Destroy Evil." In fact, he's all for it. He's gung-ho. If he were to parody a Disney song, he would make, "Do you wanna kill some Evil?" from Frozen. (C'mon, let's go and slay!) He just has no capacity to understand what "Evil" is. I never said, nor would it make any sense, that Nightblood is going to resist the urge to hate things. I think he'll try with everything in him to hate all things. However, much like how he currently acts with Evil, I think he just will never understand Hatred. And I am absolutely not saying that his Command to "Destroy Evil" will somehow conflict with his Intent towards hatred. If you still don't understand what I'm saying, then I apologize for my lack of ability to explain. If you are still under the impression that my point is the point you believed it to be when you wrote your last post, please realize that there has been a misunderstanding between us. Okay. I think I understand better what you're trying to express. I don't personally agree with it, but we're talking about Shards, which none of us yet have enough information on to be as sure as we'd like, or about the definition of things like free will and evil, and if all of human history has been unable to give us concrete definitions of those concepts I wouldn't expect you and I to settle on them now. In short, I don't believe that if you don't have free will, that you can think. If the conclusion is foregone, then you're just a really complicated program. I see a fundamental difference there. Free will and thinking both, to me, come down to choice. If you can choose how you act, you are both thinking and you have free will. If you can't do one, you can't do the other. I appreciate that these definitions are, by definition, abstract and personal. I guess in the analogy it would be a volcano erupting when it's going to erupt because of natural forces, and one erupting when it's going to erupt because of a large machine running by itself that no one has any control over. I also don't personally believe that this describes Shards. Mr. Sanderson has said that Intents get harder and harder to resist as time goes on. He's never said that they expand until they eliminate free will. I see a ton of Sharders making broad assumptions about how Intents actually work, and I disagree with most of them. That said, we know so little, I could be wrong. I look at someone like Leras, who held the power an unknown period of time but... thousands of years, I would guess. And he nevertheless set up a plan to cause his own death, and risk the death of anything and everything on Scadrial, and to kill his companion with his own power, all in pursuit, not of stability or stasis, but of growth, change, and advancement. Leras acted drastically against his own Intent, for goals wildly divergent from his own Intent, after being influenced by his Intent long enough for Ati, a kind man, to be turned into the Ruin who meets Vin. I just don't see how people's assumptions that Intent is the trump card can be true in the face of this evidence. But of course, we know very little about Shards, Intents, or the Spiritual Realm as a whole, so I could easily be wrong.

Hrm, yet we have WoB that Odium fears Harmony, implying it's because he is twice as powerful. It probably has some effect. Search Theoryland for Odium, and several other quotes imply that it's a matter partially of raw power, and that it's very taxing. And recall, Vin used up literally all of the available power of Preservation for the express purpose of ruining something, without having a firm plan in mind for how it would preserve anything, and while her mind died, the power of preservation itself was full and perfectly fine moments later when Sazed Ascended. It's hard to imagine something more opposed to the "Intent" of Preservation, and yet the Shard was fine. Moreover, even in your example, Harmony is perfectly set to fight another Shard. He has power as strong as any single Shard for the sole purpose of protecting himself from any and all direct attacks, and power as strong as any single Shard for the sole purpose of destroying things and bringing them to an end. Is Odium's intent to destroy what he hates, or just to hate it?

Eh. Maybe my family is complicated. But I can think of a ton of relatives I love and would do anything for, whom I would nevertheless recommend people keep at arm's length, and whom I would expect to bite. As for Jasnah and Amaram. I got the sense it was personal. I don't see Jasnah as someone to rule out all marriage, ever. When she says, "It would never happen," I don't see her saying, I will never marry, I see her saying, I will never be bound to that man. Given how we know Amaram acts when he need not keep up the polite lie of being a good person, I find it a natural conclusion to draw that she's seen through him; whether this means he was deliberately horrible to her or not is somewhat more up for debate. Like many people who are awful yet operate under the impression that everyone is secretly like them, he might be less guarded than someone who realizes they're terrible, genuinely surprised when the person they confide in is disgusted by them. It is regrettably common for a white person I've only just met to "commiserate" with me about how horrible black people are, and to express genuine shock when I express genuine horror. I do not see a reason to assume Jasnah would forswear all marriage. Even if she foreswears having children. While the Alethi marriages we've seen having been shockingly romantic, surely the concept of marriage as a political alliance is at least feasible. After all, it's what Jasnah begins planning for Shallan. We do see that she find the bonds of marriage to be something inherently restrictive, but clearly not to the point of not being a valid option. She presumably also finds other necessary tasks to be onerous, but she never says "I would never under any circumstances sew myself a safeglove from the remnants of the hem of my skirt." Maybe not the best example but hopefully you understand what I mean. Surely there could be a young man from some culture, someone intelligent she does not find repugnant, to whom she would consider the purely political arrangement of a marriage, on the assumption he keep a mistress/harem to satisfy his urges. Either an Alethi Noble, to cement some alliance and keep Alethkar from dividing, or even a foreigner; how interesting if she were to "marry" Rlain, a man who most of the time would have the same urge to procreate she does, to cement a new Alethi/listener alliance? Or Kaladin, perhaps. It's been spoken that, on the admittedly off-chance Torol Sadeas does not have a legitimate heir, Kaladin might be considered as a Highprince. Might it be more tenable to the others if he were first to become the brother-in-law of the King himself? I could see Jasnah, as she's been portrayed, finding the regrettable necessity of such an arrangement, and going ahead for the good of Alethkar, as long as she not be asked to perform any "wifely duties".

Train was super late last night and I fell asleep before I could post, and now I'm running late for work. Should be able to post quotes this evening. As for this: The scene is from Kaladin's perspective, so we don't know what goes through Dalinar's head. What we do know is, while Kaladin's back is turned, Dalinar Summons the Blade. Seconds later, Kaladin is watching. He just steps forward, sticks the sword in the ground, and steps back. And Oathbringer is now unbound. From "summoning" (ergo, must be bound) to taking his hand off (unbound) has been seconds, after the most stressful and tense hours of his life. No explicit mention is made of him touching the stone, which to me says that if it even happened, it was such a casual gesture as to not be worthy of note. So, not sure why Dalinar talks about it in the abstract at the end of WoR when he has a concrete example himself, or why he says it should be hard when the two times we've seen it, it seems as easy as "think of something for a moment and press a button", like if you were asked to think about the letter "J" and then press the "J" key.

Why would they want to rule? Elend would probably try, and succeed, at getting elected to something. Vin would be a little bored but at least happy everyone is safe. Breeze would simply enjoy the celebrity. Ham would retire quietly and spend time with his family. Dox would be ecstatic and prolly get a job in the government; maybe head of an oversight commision. Clubs would retire and become an artist. Who knows about Kelsier. Whatever he wants, I'm sure he would make happen.

Quotes when I'm at my computer. The guy Adolin beat took a second and a touch through shardplate to dissolve his bond. When Dalinar gave up Oathbringer, we see it from Kaladons perspective but he doesn't even seem to touch the gem. Curious as to the discrepancy.

Anselem: if a volcano can choose when to erupt and specifically chooses to erupt when it will do the most harm... That's my definition of evil. The whole point of comparing him to a volcano is that a volcano cannot think or choose, and thus cannot be evil. Evil requires choice. Of a volcano can choose, it can choose evil. Ari: you seem to be missing several of my points. If Nightblood were only ever meant to be a commentary and a joke, that doesn't sound like something Mr. Sanderson would have written an entire book just to set up. Since we know he's always been a part of the plan, one that required a lot of effort, I expect more than a satirical look at fantasy swords. Also, I don't expect Nightblood's Command to affect Odium. I don't think the sword will decide Odium is Evil. The point of bringing the Command up was to point out that something which seems simple, like "feel compelled to preserve things" might actually be rather complex.

You are mistaken. You are speaking, I assume, of keeping your bonded Blade in the world when you let it go. The only other time we see a Blade actually unbound, it took a moment of effort from a random guy.

How did they learn about Marasi? Her geneaology was good enough to survive under even Wax's first scutiny. Not that there aren't ways, but why bother? There don't seem to be a dearth of eligible women to take. And Wax got his invitation only the day before the wedding, so it does not seem like they had time to look at a complete list of attendees and check them all exhaustively. Lord Harms even makes a comment implying he might not have let Marasi come. Of course, they had the resources to learn, but without hindsight, why bother? In a target rich environment, why put the effort into going past the obvious genealogy of the young Lady Colms to learn her past? If it's because of their assosciation with Wax, that was formalized the day before, also they order him killed the next day. It makes no sense to try to provoke a reaction and then try to kill him. If it was to look like they were picking random women but still get the option, this was an awful idea because someone would have learned her story and realized the huge clue. It makes no sense I can see. As Wax says, even if they were going for a decoy and didn't know she really was part of the line, it made much more sense to pick someone not related at all.