Razrback16

Thanks much SLNC. Glad to hear it.

Just a quick question folks - with regard to Kaladin's love life as we're discussing here - anybody read more in depth interviews from Sanderson with regard to Kaladin and romance potential? Reason I ask is I'd come across this note where Sanderson says "Kaladin doesn't have a romance" in an part of the interview - https://www.jotdown.es/2016/12/brandon-sanderson-i-want-to-show-in-my-writing-that-there-is-something-inherently-good-inside-human-beings/ Obviously this is back from 2016, so maybe his POV on this has changed? But just curious. Maybe all our discussions are pointless on this topic, hah.

Well-said. I also don't think either of them "requires" a relationship (no one does, really) - I just think it'd be great for both characters, and enjoyable to read.

Agree completely with this. Kaladin should have been there - not to imply that Jasnah needed any help as she obviously handled it just fine, but had Kaladin been there, Amaram would never have even so much as had an opportunity to approach Jasnah. And it would have been cool for Jasnah to be there when Amaram died as well.

Ya, I think at minimum that's probably what we'll see initially. Since finishing OB, I've felt that Gavinor will be a likely catalyst to push Jasnah and Kaladin together a bit at least in terms of interaction. Based on their previous interactions, while they probably don't currently "like" each other, they probably "respect" each other. So they would probably not "choose" to interact much with each other given the option, but may be forced to when adding Gavinor into the equation. As that happens that will obviously create situations where the two will probably talk about other things as well, and get to know each other better. Right now their views on things aren't aligned, and that will likely create some friction, but they will probably begin to see / notice things in the other person that they like / appreciate or even do something nice / helpful for the other unprompted, and under the assumption that Jasnah is heterosexual, natural human behavior will take over from there. Two single, attractive people of the opposite sex who are forced in close quarters with each other on a repetitive basis, even if it starts with initial dislike, will generally start to see the good in the other person and start to build emotional attachment due to familiarity / comfort and the aforementioned positives that may be gleaned from the interaction(s). It's been noted how much Jasnah respects her uncle Dalinar, and we know how much Dalinar seems to like / trust / respect Kaladin (and even owes him his life). Given those things, it's not hard to imagine Jasnah eventually building up positive feelings toward Kaladin under those types of situations, and right now Kaladin probably sees Jasnah as an "ice queen" - she'll probably do some things that will make him think hmm, she's not as emotionless and uncaring as I thought. What I think will happen is we'll start to see some chemistry between the two through the interactions they'll have; we'll read from their POVs and notice how their outlook on the other is seeming to change into more positive thoughts / feelings, and just thinking about the other person more, and then Tarah will come back into the picture for Kaladin creating some strife. I remember reading a snippet of an interview with Brandon Sanderson where someone asked him about romances and he had said something along the lines of wanting there to be "conflict" in the relationships. Or I could be completely wrong about everything. Hah. Welcome to complete speculation on stories.

I can see Void89's point on things being rushed, I agree it felt like that. On the flip since I have significantly tired of Shallan and as a result Shalladin has become something I didn't want to see happen, I was actually glad it got ended even if it seemed rushed.

Were you disappointed in that just because you were a Shalladin shipper or you just felt the way that love triangle was wrapped up was "unbelievable"? Originally I was a big Shalladin fan, but I've come to not really enjoy Shallan's character anymore - I find her quite annoying in general so I was pretty happy when it appeared he closed out that love triangle. I'm hoping Kaladin will run into Tarah at some point so we can figure that out, and then I'd ultimately like to see Jasnah & Kaladin develop something.

Ya, I agree with a lot of this - * I like the idea of Jasnah & Kaladin - I think they can help each other quite a bit as each one possesses strengths that are weaknesses for the other. * I also agree with your suggestion on political marriage - I wouldn't be surprised to see this be the direction Kaladin & Jasnah are taken in. Kaladin will not like it initially, after all he doesn't seem to like Jasnah much outside of seeming to find her physically attractive, but that's a key reason I think it would be an interesting romance arc to follow - Kaladin needs to learn to not care quite as much as he does as at this point it's basically a fault for him. And Jasnah needs to learn to care a little more (she made progress at the end of OB with Renarin), and she may need Kaladin's help in dealing with her subjects given her cold / hard demeanor. * I've also enjoyed the Syl interactions like you mentioned, that would be my #2 option right now, but I am also curious to see what Tarah is all about when we finally get to meet her.

Thanks for sharing that with us, good to know.

Ya, I could even see it being "developed" slowly over the next couple of books, and then having the big "10-15 year" gap between books 5-6 where all of a sudden a bunch of things have changed, and we're seeing some flashbacks in that second set of 5 books of how certain things happened. Using this thread topic as an example, perhaps Book 6 would begin where you'd see Kaladin & Jasnah into a lengthy relationship and then reading about flashbacks from that 10-15 year period between book 5-6 to sort of fill in the gaps on the details of how it finally happened, etc., while also allowing for major world and character / relationship changes to set the stage for the 2nd set of books.

Ya, this is where things will hinge upon most IMO - I would like to think they'll be able to learn from each other a bit - both give a little in their viewpoints because they're both "too extreme" in their beliefs / ideologies. Jasnah we saw "give a little" when it came to Renarin at the end of OB. And Kaladin needs to sort of "care a little less" - caring is good don't get me wrong, but he cares so much to the point of it basically being a fault. He needs a little bit of Jasnah's reasoning injected into his thought process, just as she needs a little bit of his. JMO.

Thanks.

I don't mind reading the Szeth sections, but they're certainly not my favorite. I like when they're short so I can move on to characters I enjoy reading the POV from, such as Kaladin.

Fantastic post Alderant - Can't remember if it was this thread or another thread but I remember reading some theories on how some folks feel things will go in Book 4 - with Kaladin having found Gavinor, that is going to be a meaningful event obviously - Jasnah cares so much about her family and protecting them - it will likely mean a lot to her (and her mother) that Kaladin / his crew saved Gavinor and brought him back to his family and furthermore that because Jasnah is Queen now, there may be a push, either internally or externally for Kaladin to become closer and more involved with the Kholin family by potentially marrying into it with Jasnah - [quick side note: I saw a funny reference in another thread where someone likened Kaladin to "Stormlight Batman" because of not only his deeds, and the brooding, but the scene where Shallan looks at him up on the tower and he's referenced as a sentinel just watching and waiting to defend] - Kaladin, while originating as a darkeyes, has obviously moved up significantly in the world as Leader of the Wind Runner Radiants with Dalinar explaining to him that he now has a title and land, etc. He's basically regarded by those who know him as a "Professional Hero" (hah) at this point, making him an ideal candidate to marry into a high ranking family like the Kholins (not that he'd be seeking such a thing personally, but noteworthy, nonetheless). Now I personally struggle to see Kaladin going along with a "political sham" type marriage - in such a scenario, I think he'll want things to develop a lot more on the emotional level first as he is an emotional person and will not want to be in a marriage that doesn't involve love and real feelings, and I do hope if things go that direction, that it's a slow moving process as I do believe the references to Tarah were for a reason - we're probably going to see her come back into the fold, so that'll be interesting to see if that becomes Kal's new "love triangle", although I do believe just the idea of the attempted "meshing" between Kaladin and Jasnah alone would sort of be like its own love triangle because it would be incredibly interesting and there'd be so much to follow, and to me, that's what would make it so enjoyable to read, particularly if it panned out in a positive manner by the end. As Alderant explained so succinctly and in great detail, both of these characters "have some issues" but they not only contrast well, they complement each other as well, and to me, that would make it a very enjoyable read for a romance angle interwoven into the main story. Two areas where I think there's potential for good Jasnadin interaction would be: 1.) With Jasnah being Queen, one of the things I think she'll struggle with is dealing with her subjects - as Alderant mentioned, she tends to come off very cold and impersonal - this will likely not translate very well in certain situations with certain types of people - I suspect she'll end up being needful of Kaladin at least in some situations - his charisma and leadership qualities added to his reputation as the aforementioned "Professional Hero" who wants to help everyone could only help Jasnah and the Kholins simply by association alone, if not direct involvement 2.) Gavinor - Not saying it would happen for sure, but it's possible Kaladin may still have ongoing interaction with the little dude - he lost his dad in the battle for Kholinar so with how empathetic Kaladin is, I could easily see him spending time with the kid, which would mean he'd likely be in and around the palace near Jasnah, Navani, etc. paving the way for more potential interaction between the two of them. And a quick note here on the age difference - I know to some people that seems to be a bother - to me, it's not even something I'd flinch at. They're both adults and to me, as someone who's been in my share of relationships, and now been with the same girl for over a decade, it just comes down to are the two people compatible on an emotional, intellectual, and sexual level. I'm 36, and I'd have no problem dating a girl in her early 20s as long as she didn't act like a kid, just as I'd date a girl who was up around 50 as long as I was attracted to her and had the aforementioned compatibility. Kaladin, while in his early 20s or whatever, certainly does not act like a kid - if we didn't know his age, based on his thought patterns, and his actions, I'd guess he was actually up around 30 so to me, the age difference is just honestly not even a blip on the radar as something to be concerned with. IMO, they mesh perfectly well on the intellectual level, the question will be can they mesh on the emotional level and sexual level (assuming Jasnah is indeed heterosexual). Looking forward to seeing what B. Sanderson does with this. Wish Book 4 wasn't so far away!

Thank you sir, I appreciate it, and enjoyed reading your comments as well.

Hah, ya I enjoyed that brief exchange. It was interesting - on one hand they were both being quite serious about arguing their points - on the other hand, it did make me wonder if on some level Jasnah was being semi-flirtatious, actively enjoying the interaction from Kaladin - and I admittedly enjoyed the idea given how emotionless and seemingly asexual Jasnah had seemed so far in the series. I don't think Kaladin was intending to be flirtatious there, I think he was just being typical, pi$$ed off Kaladin (he is my favorite character by far). But I think Jasnah may have liked that - the fact that he was angry, showing it in a meeting with other leaders, going toe to toe with her, and at the same time not trying to strong arm her the way Amaram seemed to be in the course of the backstory of the book - I suspect when we get Jasnah's book, we'll find out why she is the way she is when it comes to relationships / emotions with other people. We obviously didn't get a lot of information from OB specifically between Kal & Jasnah because their interactions were so brief. But as someone else in the thread mentioned, it was interesting to me that Jasnah asked Shallan quite early on what "she thought of The Windrunner" and that was before Jasnah caught Shallan sketching him while she was supposed to be taking meeting minutes. Then much later in the story when Elhokar is transformed "into a tall, stately Alethi woman with features reminiscent of Jasnah's." in response to which, "Kaladin nodded approvingly" I found that noteworthy as well. Shallan makes an interesting observation during OB as well, noting that she basically couldn't figure Jasnah out - on one hand she rejected all male suitors, and that she'd had some pretty good looking and powerful guys try to court her and had rejected all of them; while on the other hand, Jasnah was always immaculate in her appearance - always adopting the latest hair styles, and using the best makeup, etc. I personally don't think she's gay or asexual (through the first two books I thought she was asexual, but OB changed my mind). We see briefly from Jasnah's pov in OB at one point where she thinks to herself about how emotional she is behind her eyes and doesn't show it. She really isn't just the logical robot she tries to come off as outwardly, and after the interaction with Amaram, that made me believe that she simply had something happen to her when she was younger that completely turned her off to relationships and emotional attachment. That doesn't mean it's permanent though - in all my years reading books and watching movies, throughout the course of a story, you see characters change. Sometimes fairly significantly. So while we don't know what's going to happen, I do look forward to more Kaladin / Jasnah interaction. I would enjoy reading a relationship develop between them depending on how Jasnah is written moving forward.

By the end of OB, I was quite pleased - I found Shallan's pov entries to be quite tedious and annoying in OB and by the end, her character was annoying me quite a bit. Kaladin is my favorite character by far and I'm hopeful at this point that he's completely done with Shallan and ready to move on to someone else. Very interested in finding out more about Tarah in future books, and seeing his interactions with Jasnah.

I don't like or dislike Jasnah (not enough information yet for me) - I'm very interested in her though. Very curious to find out her backstory and find out what her sexual orientation is. I am looking forward to more interaction between her and Kaladin in future books.

Thanks much Calderis! That's a heckuva time gap.

Hey quick question guys & gals - as far as the 10 book arc, I know it's been mentioned that it's going to be split into 2 sets of 5 books - has Sanderson mentioned how much time is going to pass between books 5 & 6? Was just curious. Thanks!

Ugh hope it doesn't take that long. Since this book brought her back into the main story interacting with other main characters I've wanted to learn more about her past.

Thx - yep, I would bet we're going to get that backstory next book - I suspect just like how in OB we saw so much of Dalinar's past, we're going to see Jasnah's in the next one and find out what happened to her to make her the way she is when it comes to closeness with other people. Somebody took advantage of her when she was young and it's scarred her pretty bad, at least that's my interpretation of why she is the way she is.

Sure no problem - Page 609 hardcover (Chapter 61) - "Shallan breathed out again, and the king was transfigured into a tall, stately Alethi woman with features reminiscent of Jasnah's. Kaladin nodded appreciatively. " At first I thought well maybe he's just appreciating Shallan's skill with lightweaving. But then I thought, Sanderson could just as easily have written "stately Alethi woman" without comparing her to Jasnah, and also without following that up by noting Kaladin's positive response to such, or simply being more specific to note his appreciation for Shallan's abilities if that's what he was being appreciative of. It was just one of those things that got me going "hmm....". Given how Shallan describes Jasnah during the series - it sounds like she's an outright gorgeous woman; not surprising given who her mom is, so it's fairly likely that just about every straight dude on Roshar would be attracted to Jasnah on the physical level - it was just noteworthy to me when reading the book that Sanderson felt the need to actually note it directly in the story that Jasnah's attractive appearance had not escaped Kaladin's notice. As an aside, the physical attractiveness part isn't unexpected to me at all - if they were to ever try to get together, it would be the meshing of the personalities that would be the challenging part (not to mention the immensely enjoyable part of reading such encounters). Jasnah is beautiful, and it sounds like Kaladin is attractive to women in a rough sort of way - given his history, he has scars, is somewhat unkempt a good bit of the time as he's just a rough dude that's had a soldier's life mixed with time as a slave, but has qualities that someone like Jasnah (and Shallan, obviously) would appreciate and be able to see when looking past the rough exterior - his charisma as a leader is matched only by his sense of honor and honesty and a lack of hesitation or fear to confront anyone directly regardless of their title / position. Certainly my favorite character to read in the series.

I certainly could be wrong, but I don't think Jasnah is gay, I think she's just had some things happen to her when she was younger (implied around the encounter with Amaram during OB) and as a result, she's been turned off to romance / marriage / relationships / emotional attachment ever since. I don't think it's impossible to see her re-evaluate these things given the right situation and the right person. I do agree with what some other folks have said about Kaladin though - while he definitely finds Jasnah attractive physically (noted in OB), if things played out where Jasnah wanted a political marriage with Kaladin, I'm not sure he'd go along with it, and I'd be glad that he didn't. I wouldn't want to see him enter into something like that if it's just cold and calculated only. It'll be interesting to see where things go, but I think Jasnah / Kaladin would be a fun relationship to read the development of from both of their POV, especially if it turned romantic.

Ya, it would be very cute indeed - I'd like to see her and Kal get together and help each other with their "issues".