Walkerxes

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the instrument he plays in White Sand is called a "zenthir" (at least I think that's what the narrator said.. I retain audio less well than text), which beards name very similar to the "enthir" he plays for Kaladin in the story of Fleet (Words of Radiance).. and yeah, now that you say that.. he does sound like Jaskier.

In the end, threads like this are tough, as it's ALL opinion. Even with backing evidence, it's really just saying "I liked it, and here's examples why", or "I didn't like it and here's examples why"... Most of the time the "evidence" we present isn't going to change someone else's mind, they'll simply go find evidence that backs their opinion. And since it IS opinion, the very evidence one might give for liking it (specific character scenarios, scenes they liked, certain character focus, etc) might be the exact thing that someone else disliked about it. Still, some opinions were brought up that were interesting to see discussed, and for me personally, made me look at some things in a different way. However, every time I see this thread, I can't help but get the song Underwhelmed, by Sloan stuck in my head (She was underwhelmed, if that's a word. I know it's not 'cause I looked it up. It's one of the skills I learned in my schooooollll, when I was youuuunnnggg).

Fair enough, in this thread, however I saw some very good arguments with great backing evidence.. much of which I didn't catch, or at least didn't take me down that path of thought. Great thread all around. Even if I did sort of zombie thread it accidentally.. I didn't check the last post date before replying. Noobie error

I actually just ordered WS1 and pre-ordered WS2 last week.. I'm not disappointed, but there's obviously a lot that's missing from the original pre-adaptated story. So far, it think it's done a good job, but after reading Arcanum Unbound, which has a White Sand excerpt, I'd much rather read Brandon describe it, than see a comic book rendering. The way he writes action clicks for me and I can visualize it vividly.. comic book pannels just can't do that justice. Even so, I'm not disappointed with the purchasses.

I can't lie, the flashbacks are my least favorite aspect of this series. Dalinar's were by far the most interesting to read, for me, but I'll admit, with the exception of a few, I skipped the flashback chapters my second time through. This isn't to say the flashbacks in any of the 3 books were badly written.. I just loathe flashback scenes, no matter the format, genre, or story.. I can't explain why, I just do

Agreed.. I hope I didn't come across as I felt Adolin should get all the credit. Kaladin certainly grabbed his own bootstraps and gave a good yank. However I do believe Adolin doesn't get enough credit for things he's done throughout. In the end, he's one of the most stand-up characters in the books, in spite of his initial pettiness with Kaladin in WoR. This is also what I took away from that.. in the end it's the uniform, that he used to rail against, that was the best fit. However bear in mind that most Alethi still play at dress up, so earlier in the city when going incognito, being stylish would be very Alethi. Only the Kholins kept the codes, and as he was masquerading as NOT Kholin, dressing up made sense (plus for the comic relief value). As Kaladin pointed out.. the world is ending and what do the lighteyes do? Throw a party.

Not to mention he probably had some good self-truths to face for his ideals which may have been appealing to the Cryptics.. they'd been looking at him for some time, by his comments about shapes in the mirror in WoR. The question about Adolin though is.. is he broken enough? A person has to be broken for the Nahel Bond to fill in the spaces (as Jasna put it).. Adolin.. hell, he's pretty storming put together.. but maybe reviving Maya will make him an exception. However, broken or not, he's a pretty stand-up human who, I feel, would have no problem living up to Knight Radiant ideals, and in that sense, is highly deserving. I can agree with the sentiment that "it's too much Kholin", but considering who the Bondsmith is, it does make sense that so many near him would be at the least proto-radiant. Edit: Also, considering Dalinar only found out about who killed Sadeus at the end of OB, I suspect we've not seen the last of the Sadeus murder arc, even if it didn't get much play in this book.

Ah! You're right! I'd forgotten that part on the boat!

Actually.. very well said and expressed! You're right, in fact, Kaladin has made significant improvement, even not letting the weeping get him down, which is usually a time when he's at his lowest. I do feel, though, that many of his improvement has been because generally things have been going his way.. parents alive, new sibling, bridge 4 radiance so they're less in danger.. but, he did also handle failing Elhokar much better than I'd have credited.. even then, though, it was Adolin who kept his eye on Kaladin and tried to keep him focussed and not dwelling on Elhokar. Maybe what we're really missing is.. Kalodin.. the bromance As for Kaladin and Shallan's masks.. I don't think he's had the exposure (nor explanation) to Veil and Radiant that Adolin has. To Kaladin that's just Shallan being odd, but he hasn't really experienced a recognizable personality flip like Adolin did. He caught glimpses of Veil before Shallan entered the palace, but at the time she was wearing Lyn's face, and it was probably taken as Shallan being "in character".. but at the end when she was flip-flopping between the 3 after Jasna brought here back behind the walls, Kaladin wasn't there to witness it, where Adolin was... on a side note, Kate Reading, who narrates the female-focussed chapters in the audiobook did a great job differentiating vocally between Shallan, Veil and Radiant, especially in that part.

Gotta say, once they hit Shadesmar, I thought Syladin was exactly where he was taking that. I'm not sure how I'd feel about it if he did. I believe they will have a love-type relationship, but not like a couple, more like a deep respect or friendship.. maybe even a sibling-esque love. As for Adolin and Sadeas.. I can see your point, and hell, I certainly didn't have a problem with it.. I'm pretty sure I even gave a fist pump when he did it! Haha. And I do know Kaladin did see Sadeas as a threat, but at the same time he could potentially have fallen under the category of "protect those I hate". In the end, though, it was a fair-ish fight, not a stab in the back in the dark. As for how they handle their own mental issues, neither has an exactly healthy way of doing so, so for one to rub off on the other would not necessarily be a good thing. Neither actually deals with it, they just each use different forms of band-aid to cover over the bloody stump of a severed limb.. so to speak. Not the best practice. I think what cemented ...Shadolin.. for me was how he tended to make just the right moves at the right time.. quietly being there when that's what she needed, moving close when she needed or pulling back when it was appropriate. Plus, I mean, the hair! Who could deny the hair!

In the case of the ptsd "battle fatigue" lock up with Kaladin failing Elhokar, it wasn't an unwillingness to act, but that he was literally locked.. this is an actual phenomenon with combatants.. it's neither cowardice or unwillingness, but your mind won't move. Think of a "deer in headlights" scenario.. everything is screaming at you to move, but the adrenaline, which should be prompting your Fight/flight, instead freezes you up.

LOL actually yes, my grandmother drilled that into us as kids

Admittedly, I actually like the idea of Dalinar remaining blade/plateless, even if he's actually capable of both. It sort of sets him apart, as well as sort-of forcing him to find ways to solve situations in a manner different from how he did in the past (aka, hit it until it submitted), and perhaps explore his abilities along a different type of path.

You make a fair point concerning Kaladin taking a step back out of respect for his friendship with Adolin, and oddly Adolin later attempts the same when he sees how Shallan/Veil looks at Kaladin.. I actually would have thought he'd have taken that more as a challenge, personally, than offering to step aside. As for Kaladin needing someone strong-willed/personalitied(?), that also makes sense. Perhaps Jasna? ...god that would be awful.. forget I said that.. @Athena I must have interpreted things a little different.. I saw his sort-of "treating Veil as a drinking buddy" as a type of acceptance of that persona.. a way to at least get to know it better. And heck, the fact he accepts the whole split personalities at all is rather impressive, considering how many view things like that...

I suspect plate is made from minor spren.. which may actually be what you just said now that I reread it.. it seems there's a pairing, especially evidenced with windrunners and windspren, although we also see gloryspren attracted to Dalinar (even tho SF says he won't ever have blade and plate), and creationspren certainly hang about shallan, even when she's crafting illusions.. I think you're right that these lesser spren will be what makes plate, which is why no one seems upset by plate, when they are by the dead blades

Ohhhh a spren KR! ..that would probably not work

Actually, if you think about it, he's also fulfilling that Oath with Maya herself.. since the recreance no one knew her name, and they'd even forgotten that shardblades were even once spren at all. Also, I suspect of he does revive Maya, it may go towards redeeming the kr in the eyes of other spren as well, even if he somehow does not become a kr himself...

But was he playing dress up, or acting the part of a lighteyes? His and Elhokar's mission was to secure the support of local lighteyed lords in the city, for which you have to look the part. Sure Shallan could have provided illusory clothing, but even in her own disguises she uses real elements in attire. Did he play a bit with fashion? Sure. But then Kaladin got to play soldier, Shallan got to play Robin Hood, Elhokar got to play...at whatever Elhokar likes to play at..

Although if he does... I'm not sure how rank structure works with Radiants, but it seems he'd likely hold a secondary role to Lift, much like Teft does with Kaladin, even though Teft and Kaladin are now at the same stage of ideals. Lift is a Edgedancer already, Adolin is not (yet).. so it's feasible she will stay farther ahead in ideals and thus "lead" the Edgedancers @agrabes I do actually like romance subplots, and won't be terribly disappointed if Kaladin gets one, although I'm content with the Shallan/Adolin and Dalinar/Navani romances as sufficient.. well and Drehy too

You're right.. it's been awhile since I've forumed and my etiquette has gone down the crapper.. I'll improve, just have to regain my sea legs. Sorry for that Edit (see, learning!) Pardon if I come off overbearing.. it's been awhile since I've been able to discuss books I've read, so I get a bit excited

Ok! Great to be here, thanks for responses, and also thanks for quoting over a comment I made in another post! *Rubs hands together* So.. an abysmal match? Shallan and Kal both are far too self-absorbed, for one. Yes, Adolin has some of that as well, but at the same time is also able to focus on something outside himself (Shallan, her well being, etc. Not once does Kaladin even express concern for Shallan, her ordeals, her obvious problems.. with the exception of making her laugh to forget getting stabbed in the palace.. basically, total friend zone). Even Kaladin's need to protect bridge 4 members is self serving.. he doesn't want to feel like a failure. Yes, he cares, but it's as much self serving as it is altruistic. Sure, he's all hot and brooding and "bad boy" so Shallan has some wayward attraction, but in the end, Sadeus murder aside, Adolin is way more stable, which Shallan definitely needs. More, the whole scene where Kaladin praises her for, essentially, unhealthy mental practices.. she's actually uncomfortable, recognizing that her way is not a good way, and directly dealing with her issues would be better (not that she actually does this). Where instead Adolin accepts her in spite of her problems, providing a stable place to lean while she actually deals (we hope eventually) with her issues. Not to mention, both Adolin and Shallan are straight up murderers. Kaladin might not dispute either rationale for their murderers.. he hated Sadeus, and might recognize the self-defense..Ness.. of Shallan's patricide, but both are outside of what his oaths, thus far, would allow. Adolin has sworn no such oaths/ideals (yet), and Shallan speaks truths, not oaths. Kal has some book learning, yes, but doesn't have the easy jovial nature that Shallan and Adolin have (except, oddly, with Adolin.. but he brings that out in people). His attempts at humor with her are forced, at best.. and seem almost that he's trying too hard. Not to mention taking much of what she says in jest far too serious.. although I expect some of her "jokes" with Kal were less joke than she'd admit.. passive/aggressive pokes because she knows he killed her brother, yet knows he's really not at fault, but can't help but blame him some. Uh... Did I leave anything out? Hmm... Oh.. and also.. people here keep saying Shalladin, like Benifer or Bradjelina.. which immediately makes me hate any Kaladin Shallan pairing Oh! Lyn! Admittedly, I dragged her name from way out of left field. She's a relatively unknown at this point, however, being a more duty/goal oriented sort, she's still more a match for Kal. Kal needs someone more grounded, so to speak, than Shallan. In the end, though, I really do like the idea of Kaladin staying single. I recognize that probably won't happen, but I think it's more than ok to not have every protagonist matched up with a love interest.

Plus a direct reason he actually even gives.. the confrontation with Re-Shapir.. who was throwing up dark images of bridge 4.. the whole ordeal was taxing for all involved. The very kind of excuse any addict would latch on to.

I think you're missing Adolin in your back-half list.. it's pretty obvious he will revive Maya and gain Radiant status.. so I believe he'll come into further focus later.. and if theories about Dalinar as Adonalsium are true, he'll never truly leave limelight But those are likely topics for other threads

So.. without reading the.. holy rust 95 pages of this... Kaladin-Adolin-Shallan love triangle over.. and couldn't be happier! Unnecessary plot twist, especially since Kaladin and Shallan are an abysmal match! Simply put, it's obvious. They've talked about reviving dead blades prior.. part of what it would take is knowing the spren (Maya) and knowing which Radiant bonded the spren.. they have records of who held what blades when.. further.. why take Adolin to Shadesmar, have him meet Maya, have him LEARN MAYA'S NAME, and then no have him revive her, thus gaining his own radiance. And join the Edgedancers, as Maya has a similar appearance to Wyndel.