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13 minutes ago, Daggon Forescout said:

 

I mean Alethi society does put a lot of pressure on men to be aggressive and violent. You saw how much people mock Renarin for not charging headfirst into battle along with everyone else. While Dalinar obviously takes it to an extreme, it's possible he never would have developed his bloodlust if he'd been raised in a less militaristic society. To bring it back to Adolin, I think people assume that since Adolin is reaching for his sword that means he can't control his anger, when in reality he's no more frustrated than we've all been. He's just been trained from a young age that address social problems with duels or by displaying prowess on the field of battle.

I disagree, if you react in a violent manner like pulling a weapon every time your angry, that's an issue even if your anger is justified. We see Adolin do this multiple times, in the scenes you mentioned he starts summoning his weapon subconsciously and is later stopped by Renarin and Dalinar in some off those. We know what happened when nobody was there to stop him.

Adolin is a great person and I think this issue adds more to his character than retracts, and it could be something to explore in the future.

I don't think Kaladin will die or ascend, for the first time after the end of WoK he has a long term objective, revolutionize Roshar medical system more specifically the mental health part. There's a point in the book where he even feels a calling for it.

He is also starting being connected with the heralds and cognitive shadows, the conversation with zahel, which will be relevant in the back half books.

16 hours ago, Daggon Forescout said:

I keep on seeing people mention how Adolin has anger management problems, but apart from that one time he snapped and killed Sadeas (and come on, it was Sadeas), I can't think of anything that really demonstrates that. Is he impulsive? Yeah. Easily provoked? For sure, but every example I can think of the other person was actively trying to get a rise out of him.

Does anyone have any scenes they can point to that demonstrate Adolin's anger management problems?

In WoK and WoR, there are various instances where Adolin starts summoning his blade when he is arguing with someone, there's also a duel where he looses control.

In OB and RoW i don't remember much about it.

5 hours ago, Honorless said:

That was incredibly classist, condescending and hypocritical.

From Adolin right? Shallan is basically just translating.

6 hours ago, Honorless said:

The did he just compare women with peasants scene: excuse me? Where do I even start with that?  That "peasant" is Kaladin, you just survived the Chasms together, do you have any respect for him as a fellow human being at all?

This is not the first time I saw this argument and I interpreted that scene very differently.

Quote

“I know it’s not feminine, but who cares? You’ve got a sword; you should know how to use it, and custom can go to Damnation. There, I said it.” He took a deep breath. “I mean, the bridgeboy can have one, and he’s darkeyed. Well, he was. Anyway, it’s not so different from that.”

Thank you, Shallan thought, for ranking all women as something equivalent to peasants. But she held her tongue. This was obviously an important moment for Adolin, and he was trying to be broad-minded.

Oathbringer page 160, kindle version

To be honest, on my first read i was also mad at Shallan in this scene.

13 minutes ago, agrabes said:

There are also in context explanations for both of these instances.  Especially the Mraize situation.  The other one I think might be something if the theory that there is a totally different "true" Shallan out there we haven't met yet is correct.

Mraize first heard about her from Tyn, who reported to him that she was a con artist pretending to be Shallan Davar.  He then saw the way she behaved herself around him and the other Ghostbloods, confirming his suspicions.  The reason he believed that Veil was the real one and Shallan was fake all goes back to the reports that came from Tyn.  And if you think about it logically, it's much more likely that a darkeyed con artist would want to impersonate a lighteyes who is engaged to be married into one of the wealthiest families in Alethkar, than for that lighteyes to impersonate a random darkeyes.  It's not some deep insight into her true nature, it's that he got bad information to start with and then made a wrong conclusion from that.

I think you got it wrong here, at this point Mraize knows Shallan true identify they even talk about her brothers and such.

In my opinion the truest Shallan we've seen is the one that appears when her survival is at risk, when fighting with Tyn and the Midnight Mother.

I have a different interpretation of the last paragraph, i don't think it confirms Shallan in Group 2.

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At the same time that Kaladin Stormblessed must come to grips with his changing role within the Knights Radiant(1), his Windrunners face their own problem: As more and more deadly enemy Fused awaken to wage war, no more honorspren are willing to bond with humans(2) to increase the number of Radiants. Adolin and Shallan must lead the coalition’s envoy to the honorspren stronghold(3) of Lasting Integrity and either convince the spren to join the cause against the evil god Odium, or personally face the storm of failure.

Emphasis mine.

1 - I think this means Kaladin must come to grips with being the Windrunners leader not just a soldier. It reminds me of the Sigzil chapter in OB where Kaladin is neglecting some of his duties because he didn't even know that those were his.

2 - This is mostly a Windrunners problem, so Kaladin has the leader must find a solution. I don't think Dalinar is in charge of all 10 orders recruitment.

3 - The Coalition's envoy is most likely Kaladin. The leader of the Windrunners would be the best option to successfully convince the honorspren to start bonding humans again and in OB he managed to convince the ship captain to help then instead of taking Syl to the stronghold.

In conclusion i think Shallan and Adolin are in group 1 with Kaladin, not group 2.

20 hours ago, Chiberty said:

https://www.tor.com/2020/07/23/read-rhythm-of-war-by-brandon-sanderson-prologue-and-chapter-one/

This confirms Kaladin, Shallan, Navani, Venli, and Lirin as Part 1 PoVs. That should lock down Lirin as a minor Group 1 PoV.

https://www.comic-con.org/cciathome/2020/video/4lRDdxUy5iE

This has an explicit confirmation that Szeth will get some PoV chapters (maybe just one). It is still unclear if he is in Group 1 or 3.

Of the Part 1 PoVs only Venli is not at Hearthstone and according to last year SDCC reading we know she's at Kholinar. So she's most likely group 2 with some other characters.

Group 1 should be Kaladin, Shallan and Navani, the PoVs with bigger word count and Lirin with a smaller word count.

Quote

End Justifies the Means - Honorable Actions

Bondsmith - 100
Edgedancer - 90
Windrunner - 85
Skybreaker - 85
Stoneward - 70
Truthwatcher - 49
Dustbringer - 47
Lightweaver - 35
Willshaper - 30
Elsecaller - 0

This one is oddest to me, i never expected Edgedancers to be ahead of Windrunners and Skybreakers in Honorable actions when the spren of the last two are the ones that identify themselves as "closest" to Honor.

I agree with with @agrabes that Venli may not be in group one. In a recent interview Brandon said that RoW was Venli/Eshonai flashbacks but another caracter was the main character. 

Also, this is the first book where the flashback character is not one of the main characters, these being Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar, so the structure might be different.

I agree that there is big evidence that points to Navani, as @ChickenLiberty showed. But I don't think researching fabrials or building new weapons for the war will make her the main character.

In all previous books, the main character goes through a major personal arc, at this point I just don't see Navani going through a arc like Dalinar did in OB or Kaladin in WoK.

My main candidates are Rlain and Adolin.

Rlain because this book is supposed to be the singers book and instead of just following Venli we can follow both of them.

Adolin because at the end of OB, he admits killing Sadeas and refuses to be king a decision that goes against his father which he idolizes and was trying to emulate. Finding out that Dalinar was not the man he thought will be a big shock. All this while being married to Shallan and having to fight a war.

I know that this book is the Willshaper book and large part of the community thinks Adolin will be a Edgedancer, i personally don't agree with the theory. 

If Helaran was a Ghostblood for long wouldn't he have a tattoo or something with the symbol.

Quote

“… why Thaidakar would risk this?” Amaram was saying, speaking in a soft voice. “But who else would it be? The Ghostbloods grow more bold. We’ll need to find out who he was. Do we know anything about him?” “He was Veden, Brightlord,” the stormwarden said. “Nobody I recognize. But I will investigate.”

Amaram had access to the body and still has doubts, i'm assuming he didn't find the tattoo.

Kaladin is Hoid descendent.

There's a scene in WoR where Wit/Hoid says "There's a spark of wit in you" and Kaladin immediately thinks that it came from his mother.

Dalinar is already high king of Urithiru and the shattered plains and as long the alethi highprinces are in Dalinar territory they are under his command, which technically also makes him king of Alethkar. This was Elhokar proclamation in chapter 12 of OB, which he sign before leaving to Kholinar.

The proclamation also states that the king of Alethkar is a vassal to the high king. The document itself wasn't revealed but i assume Jasnah as queen is under the same conditions.

This raises the question, who is Dalinar successor?

If we go by the traditional method, Adolin would be the heir but Urithiru is the city of Radiants so it makes sense that the heir has to be a Radiant. So is Renarin the heir to Urithiru or do you think the Radiants would want another way to choose their king?

I agree with OP that Kaladin leadership skills and social views would make him more likely to be the next king after Dalinar dies or ascends or whatever.

21 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

He could, but he makes a point of sticking to the "spirit of the law," rather than the letter. But that also requires we trust Odium, who isn't really all that trustworthy. It could go either way, really...

Shards are bound by their word, that's why Honor advises Dalinar to enforce a duel of champions. Unless Taravangian breaks the agreement first i don't see a way Odium can get out of it.

I was rereading OB and in the end Odium meets Taravangian and they make a deal in which the Diagram will work for Odium and in return Odium will spare anyone born in Kharbranth, their spouse and the city itself. I think this deal will be very important in the resolution of the first arc. 

1 - There's the popular theory that Mr. T is a plant by Cultivation, i think the diagram was Cultivation way to bind Odium to an agreement which he, as a shard, has to follow as long as Taravangian keeps his word.

2 - This deal makes Odium ineffective against someone who was born in Kharbranth or their spouse. So i was trying to find some important character that was born in Kharbranth and was not Taravangian until i found one Hesina, Kaladin's mom.

3 - We know Hesina is not from Hearthstone and from some conversations in WoK we can assume she was born in a city, we also know Lirin lived in Kharbranth from a long time. So we can assumed they met there.

4 - We don't know when they returned to Hearthstone, i didn't find anything saying that Kaladin birth was in Hearthstone. And we know one of Kaladin grandparents is lighteyes, perhaps they were the ones who named him when they were still in Kharbranth.

So in conclusion Cultivation plan was to force Odium to compromise with Taravangian, so that she could give an advantage to Kaladin, which might be Honor's champion.

I agree with both of you @Pathfinder and @Calderis.

I agree with @Pathfinder in that you don't need to be a radiant to be important, I believe Adolin, in his role as Highprince, can be of the same or more importance than any radiant.

I agree with @Calderis in that Adolin was teached to lead from the front so he will be in a position of danger, when fighting in the shattered plains he was mostly targeted by parshendi, in which he hold the advantage because he was a shardbearer, now he will be targeted by fused and thundercasts losing that advantage.

If he is to fight in the front and survive without powers, he needs, at least, a very good bodyguard. Because when fighting against a fused in OB and Szeth in WoR he lost both and being the leader of the army makes you a target.

I think it relates with his bond to Syl. Has far as we know, Syl was the only honorspren "alive" when Honor/Tanavast died, perhaps before his death Tanavast did something to her, like he did with the Stormfather.

The argument that anybody can bond a spren is to ambiguous. Yes, anyone can be a radiant as long as they bond a spren, but I don't see a spren bonding with someone because they are nice or have family members with a established bond. Spren will only bond with someone that as the potential to advance in their order oaths. Example, if Maia ends up bonding with Adolin and he is not fit to swear edgedancer oaths, they will be stuck at the first oath.

50 minutes ago, Bliev said:

I totally understand. My argument isn’t against your opinions on what you think he should or shouldn’t feel about his choice, but rather against your contention that he doesn’t “deserve” to be a Radiant because of that choice. He took responsibility for it. He doesn’t regret it. And Brandon has made it clear that there are people in world and out (including himself!) and spren who do not have a problem with his choice.

The reason why someone takes responsability is important, in Adolin's case he took it to escape from being king.

1 hour ago, agrabes said:

The resolution of the whole love triangle thing really pissed me off when I read OB, not necessarily because of the results but because of how it happened.  So every now and again I come to these boards and try to talk w/ other people to figure out if I'm the only one dissatisfied with it or if I'm just looking at it a weird way.  I feel like it's been enough time now that people can discuss it without it turning into a shipping war.  Anyway, thanks for putting out your opinion on this. 

I agree with you, what pissed me off the most was the easy resolution, the "She just reminded me off my brother" or the "I never really liked him, Veil did". I think both are lies and seems like a easy way to wrap things up.

I disagree with you in one thing, I finished rereading OB some weeks ago and noticed things that make me believe the Kaladin/Shallan relashionship is not as dead as people think. Hopefully the next books will answer.

In relation to other possible Kaladin romances, Tarah seems to be the more likely option, after that possible cameo in Urithiru. Laral seems unlikely after OB and Jasnah right know is just speculation.

7 hours ago, Calderis said:

Thank you.

For reference, we know of two orders per WoB that would accept a Machiavellian, which is in direct opposition to the first oath as presented by Teft. The Skybreakers, and Elsecallers. And I doubt they're alone.

In my opinion what Adolin did was not Machiavellian. For me, a Machiavellian plans for the long game taking unorthodox means if necessary, like Jasnah.

Adolin killed Sadeas because he was provoked and got angry. Which is understandable in that circumstances, but doesn't make it right.

I don't see Adolin becoming a Radiant in the near future, the way he handled the "I killed Sadeas" to Dalinar as an excuse to not be king was, imho, not very Radiant like.

I think Kaladin tried to take advantage of a tradition he didn't fully understand and got punished by it. I understand why he did it and agree that he shouldn't have tried it.

I can understand why people blame Kaladin for ruining the chance to kill Sadeas, but without Kaladin the Kholins would have lost all their shards, Adolin and Renarin would at least be seriously injured and Sadeas would be in a position to take control. So for me he still is the MVP of the duel, his team is losing badly and he carries then to a victory, not a complete victory but still a good one.

I didn't like how the Kholins get the win, without any consequence, after being checkmated by Sadeas. And Elhokar still blames Kaladin for not killing Sadeas.

I agree with @agrabes, particularly in the show vs tell debate. There's a scene in OB when Shallan embarrasses herself to attract shamespren and the only person who notices is Kaladin. My point is, if Shallan and Adolin spend so much time together he should be picking this hints.

The conclusion to the triangle still fells very odd to me for various reasons. The main one being the Helaran subplot not being resolved.

To the OP question, i fell Tarah is going to be important in Kaladin moving forward.

The known way is the Kaladin-Syl route, swearing an oath. I don't think it applies to Adolin.

In the last chapter of OB, Dalinar says he wants to find a home to oathbringer. Which makes me believe he will try to revive her using his bondsmith powers. If he is successful, perhaps he can help Maya.

7 minutes ago, Karger said:

So is she going to be an awesome queen on horseback?

No, she will be in strategy meetings and maintaining the highprinces in check. Gavilar was in the front lines when uniting Alethkar and Elhokar was in the Shattered Plains not Kholinar.