LerasiumMistborn

"Much lesser role" makes me think about Words amount of screen time. In fact Way of Kings and Oathbringer both have the same 90k words for Dalinar in present day narrative, but Oathbringer also has long flashbacks, that's why the overall narrative was longer. Much less than this would be "Words" or a bit more or even a bit less. Yes, but these are flashbacks. Flashbacks are usually 10-15 chapters. She can't have bigger role than Kaladun and Shallan. I don't mind disagreement...It's my fault only. It was just foolish to expect something from a character like Dalinar and hope for him. I was an idiot.

It's not about sheer word count. It's about Dalinar always staying on the background and have five chapters per book. Like in Words. Like in book 4. Reading such big book for five chapters is meaningless. I'd rather Dalinar being less important, but having more povs. I believe, people would react differently, if Sanderson cut down Kaladin. If Kaladin were that character who has five chapters per book amd 30k words, people would riot. But this is Dalinar, a character no one cares about. Kaladin and Shallan still have a big word count in all the books. Dalinar is absent in any book that isn't Oathbringer (Way of Kings wasn't that bad though). Kaladin has 120/80k words in "not his books". Shallan has 120/60k. Dalinar has 30k... How Eshonai can have higher word count if she is dead? You mean Venli? He also said that he loves certain character from Mistbon, which didn't prevent him from pullung another meaningless heroic sacrifice. The problem is "whatever happens with Dalinar" is important for me. What EXACTLY happens with him is important. I wanted him to live. Those "powerful scenes" are him dying most likely. I don't care if it's powerfully written or whatever, for me this is a total waste. Kaladin is the heart of the series. I'm not happy, I'm heart-broken. Reading this series since 2011, having many hopes for Dalinar...that's not easy to forget about it and pretend like it never existed. I wish I never read these books. Time skip is another clue that Dalinar won't survive.

I think we know (there should be WoBs on that) that the whole SA will be on Roshar and there will be some scenes on the planet where Odium is trapped. Word count does matter for those, who enjoy reading Dalinar PoVs.

I don't know. That broke my heart...After Oathbringer I expected to read more Dalinar, not less...There were too many loose ends and potentional plot lines. Besides, Dalinar was becoming too important for more global narrative to be put on the background again. I don't want to read book 5. That's why I was hoping for book 4, but Dalinar's role in this book is very small. And the worst thing is, he didn't mention book 6 and the second half in general. Overal tone of the message implies that Dalinar won't show up after book 5 ever again.

For those who think that Dalinar's role and word count will increase and increase after Oathbringer and that he will have a big role within the series. EDIT: https://imgur.com/a/fc3Y227

But I always say I think, I believe, I fear that, ect. I explained why do I think, believe, and fear though. Why this is impossible to add a picture? I always get "upload failed..."

I didn't post my comments twice. It were two separate comments that being merged together somehow, but the second comment wasn't deleted. It wasn't me. Yes, I wrote multiple times that I believe this will going to happen. Why am I a troll? Just because I voice my opinion? I have no right to discuss it? The whole situation with Dalinar is heart-breaking for me. I cried my eyes out because of it...Yeah, troll...Thank you. The first Oath "life before death" means something like "it doesn't matter that you die in the end, what matters is how you lived you life". I think this will be the end of Dalinar's story. He will die, but die in making...something. Maybe killing Odium and dying in the process. For me personally, this is a waste, but Sanderson likes killing characters. Even if Dalinar is his favorite, it won't stop him from doing it. ... Anyway, I finally was able to make a screenshot of...WoB or whatever it is. For those who think Dalinar's role and word count will increase and increase after Oathbringer... ...and I can't download it here. So I will probably make another topic for it. EDIT: https://imgur.com/a/R1aop5Z

I don't use Tumblr, so I will believe you. Here...there's not many people here, but I think majority has little interest in Dalinar's character, even if they don't hate him. People tend to like younger characters, that's why they're the most common and popular characters in fantasy books. On reddit many people hate him. Some don't, but each time someone says he like Dalinar or create a new thread about Dalinar, someone will show up with obligatorily "How can you like him? He's so awful, can't you see?!". People who do rereads of SA books hate Dalinar. It's hard to say what Sanderon really thinks/fells about his characters. I mean, I don't know him personally, I can only make assumptions. I think, he may care about Dalinar as his...creation? Fictional character? In the sense that he wrote Dalinar a long time ago, when he was young. And finally being able to write and publish books is obviously important for him. But Dalinar as a person? I don't know how to explain it better. I want to say that I think he's not interested in writing any (positive) narrative and happy ending for Dalinar. He's a plot device for narrative needs. Kaladin and Shallan's stories about them needing to learn how to be happy, forgive themselves and live. Dalinar's story (as I think it is) is about him learning he's a monster, who needs to sacrifice his life to let others live. I mean, if I were an author and had a favorite character, I would write a lot about this character and write a happy ending for him/her. But maybe Sanderson sees things differently than I do.

That's not Dalinar's case. He's not Kaladin and Shallan, whose roles only grow bigger and bigger since their flashback books. Dalinar's role in book 4 is very small. Sanderson said Kaladin has a big role in book 4. He said nothing about Shallan, but as he didn't specifically said he will cut her down (he specifically said it about Dalinar), it's safe to assume he won't. So, Kaladin (confirmed) and Shallan (most likely) both have big roles in book 4. Dalinar has a small background role. Book 5 will probably be the same. And there's also a second half. Sanderson said that characters from the first half will still be main characters. Well, all of them, except for one Dalinar, who's gonna die (I'm sure). It's safe to assume, Sanderson was talking about Kaladin and Shallan, and they're those characters with big on-going arcs through all 10 books. Obviously, not Dalinar. His story is already over (I personally think there's much more that could be tell, but if Sanderson doesn't want to write Dalinar is book 4, no way he will want to write him in book 7), and there will be a time skip. If I'm right, Kaladin and Shallan will have seven more books dedicated to them. Dalinar has only two, and his role is these books are very small. His overall role in the series is very small. I think he's going to die halfway through the series, and won't even reach it's ending. Dalinar's death would be a waste, because that's not what readers want from his narrative. Because that's not logical development and conclusion for his narrative. When Sanderson wrote Dalinar in Oathbringer he (intentionally) made readers to expect some great things from Dalinar's future. Cheat readers expectations and, more importantly, desires would be a bad writing. However, based on previous experience, Sanderson is perfectly fine with creating readers expectations and bad writing. Eshonai was supposed to be a main character, she started to bond a spren and developed towards becoming a Knight Radiant. Only to face idiotic, IMO poorly written death, and being thrown away from the story. That's what I think Dalinar is. Written to be important only to fool readers expectations. Example with Eshonai made me think that Sanderson doesn't care about his characters. I think he DOES care about some of them, Kaladin, Shallan, but some of them are just plot devices for him. Like Eshonai. And, I think, like Dalinar. We all expect somewhat interesting future for this character, but in the end, I think, his only role in the story is being a "pig for slaughter". Sanderson already said he reduced Dalinar's role in book 4. Nothing indicates he will continue with the character. Instead, everything he says strongly implies that Dalinar won't survive into the second half. Well, I feel it. Not the only one, but one of them. No way Sanderson will kill Kaladin or Shallan. Who is left? Only Dalinar is left. Expect of "Dalinar" or expect of "Dalinar-like character"? If second, those characters always die. Always. If first, many readers expect and HOPE to see great and interesting future for Dalinar. He could Ascend. Or he could travel different planets, exploring universe. That would be logical, natural development of the character. And that would be very interesting to read about. Much more interesting that waste Dalinar for another cliched "self sacrifice death moment". I'm sure, Dalinar is going to be wasted like this. Sanderson believes that someone NEEDS to die, as without characters deaths the books is not good enough. Kaladin won't die. If you check old interviews with Sanderson (2010-2011) from the times, when he didn't care for giving spoilers that much, you will find out that Kaladin is going to be an important main character of the whole series (there're ten books in the series). I doubt he will kill Shallan. Can you imagine situation where Shallan dies and Kaladin and Dalinar survives? I can't. Dalinar is left. I think, this is his only purpose within the story. Being a pig for slaughter and die, because someone NEEDS to die, and Kaladin and Shallan can't die. So, Dalinar. "Perfect" choice. Sanderson doesn't care for him. Fandom either doesn't care or hate him. He's the most hated character ever. He "deserves" to die after all. He's a "monster". Sanderson always struggles to find any *positive* words when people ask him about Dalinar's future (Why? I guess, this is because Dalinar has no future). He sounds much more ambitious when talks about Kaladin and Shallan (even Adolin). He's not going to write Dalinar in book 4. If he has no story for Dalinar in the next book, there's no story for Dalinar in books 6-10. Seems like Dalinar's story ended in Oathbringer. Everything that is left is handful of chapters and death. Sanderson never said Dalinar will have a role after book 5. Hence, everything that was written in OB, cosmere-related narrative for Dalinar, foreshadowing of big, important role for him, all of it was for nothing.

He has much less words than Kaladin and Shallan, And the "rift" between them will grow bigger and bigger, as they will continue to have big narratives in any given books ,most likely, and Dalinar's role in book 4 is very small and so on. If we look at the whole series, Dalinar's overall role within the series is very small. Sure, but I have a feeling/fear that all of it is just a misleading and a trick. A joke. Illusion of Dalinar's importance. Sanderson wrote it just to fool readers expectations. Wrote Dalinar as if he were important only to waste and kill him and pull a "twist". I think this is a bad writing. I thing this is a broken promise to readers. Normally, such narrative (like Dalinar's) would get a logical development and resolution, but I fear that Sanderson won't do it with Dalinar, and that all of it was for nothing. My personal desires were: within the cast Dalinar is the most...cosmere-oriented character. He's also very thoughtful. He wants to understand how this universe "works". He wants to learn more, to understand things. To find God. It would make a lot of sense if he were the character to explore the universe. It makes sense both character-wise and story-wise. But I'm afraid that Sanderson won't write it, and waste the character instead. I would prefer him to demonstrate his love for Dalinar in the books, not in the interviews. Looking into the books I don't get the impression that he loves Dalinar or even cares for him. My point is: many people have very, very high expectations for Dalinar, because of the things you mentioned above. If those doesn't happen, people may be very disappointed. Yes, but Dalinar is "this older character within the cast who always dies in any given book". His chances for survival are extremely low, except for the "he's supposed to Ascend" scenario, but as I said, I fear it'll be wasted for nothing... I just hope this "unexpected" doesn't mean "everyone expects Dalinar to have a big and important role, so let's just waste him instead, this is so unexpected!"...

I think, when the author teases something like Dalinar's stuff from the end of Oathbringer, he makes some promises to the readers. It makes readers expect something...amazing. And if the author doesn't write it, he breaks those promises to the readers. So, for me, Dalinar not getting certain resolution of his narrative, would be a waste. That being said, I hate what he did with Eshonai...for me, this is a waste. Now I am aware. If he already betrayed one character, nothing prevents him from betraying another one.

This isn't true. He has 19 povs, not chapters. Pov could mean just a little paragraph in a long chapter with multiple-character-povs. Dalinar has 4 or 5 individual chapters in Words. That's not a joke. He has two chapters in part 1, and one chapter in part 4. And a few povs in part 5. That's it. But only book with Dalinar as a main character is Oathbringer. He has a little role in book 4. Yes, he has only book with flashbacks, but his overall role in the series is very small (especially if compare with other characters). But he tends to reduce people's expectations, if needs. With Dalinar, he refuses to clarify things. Did Sanderson ever said: "Dalinar will have a role in the second half of SA and beyond?" No, he didn't. That's why I said he most likely won't. In your WoB he says that characters will die, and those, who survive will appear in the second half. Guess who will die, considering there's a time skip between the books. Maybe he just doesn't want to give spoilers. Maybe this is because Dalinar will die. I think he will die, because characters like Dalinar never lives. Never. I merely stated that Sanderson never mentioned Dalinar's future after book 5. You can interpret it as you feel is the right interpretation, but for me it means that Dalinar has no future after book 5.

Yes, I think this is the case. And more...simple reason: the book were already too long, so Brandon should "sacrificed" some scenes. Wedding is a safe choice. It's not that important to the story (unlike Dalinar's wedding that was one of the reasons of why he's in conflict with Vorin church).

I don't think he's a poor writer. Well, I think "good writer" and "not good writer" is pretty...subjective. All authors have their strengths and weaknesses. No, I don't think Brandon Sanderson is a poor writer, but I indeed have many problems with this series. I also need to admit, it's a matter of perspective. For example, from perspective of Kaladin fan, I'm sure, SA is a masterpiece. However, from my perspective of person who love Dalinar, not everything is so perfect. I'm not pleased with Dalinar's lack of page time, but I already wrote about it, so I won't repeat myself. I will just said that I strongly disapprove Sanderson's decision to throw Dalinar away from books 2 and 4. For me, just for me, (mis)treating one of the "main" characters like this is a bad narrative decision. As Sanderson considers Dalinar to be a character for the first half of SA only, I think he's going to die. Well, maybe Brandon just doesn't want to give spoilers and Dalinar has a super-important role in the whole SA series and cosmere. Maybe. But honestly I have more pessimistic opinion: Dalinar is the character for the first half of SA only. If this is the case...well, this is another bad narrative decision (for me). Dalinar's death, no matter how it's written, is a bad narrative choice, because there are a waaaay more variants of how his story can develop. Dalinar has tons of potential and, if it were wasted for another cliched "heroic sacrifice" (or so) moment, it would be considered as broken promise for readers. Because you don't introduce something like this (Dalinar in Oathbringer's ending), if you aren't willing to continue writing it. You don't write Dalinar as a cosmere-relevant character, if you plan to waste him instead. But I feel that an actual book narrative clashes with Sanderson's plans. He never said Dalinar will have a role in the second half of SA. But books strongly imply on Dalinar's importance. That's why I'm disappointed.

While I think in this exact phrase "Broken One" refers to Odium, I do agree that all Shards are broken. They are broken, because they are separate from one another. As Hoid said, you can't pull someone apart, emotion by emotion. All Shards are part of One. When they're separate...it's not a good thing. For all of them, no just for "evil" Shards like Ruin and Odium. For Honor and Cultivation either. That's why I liked "reforging of Adonalsium" scenario. I thought it makes a lot of sense. I used to have very high expectations for Dalinar. Unfortunately, I think it won't happen. Sanderson never said anything about Dalinar's role beyond SA, so I think this is unlikely to happen. And for me wasting Dalinar for another cliched and stupid "heroic sacrifice", if this is the case, would be a terrible writing. There so many potential developments for Dalinar. All so interesting and so much better than this. Wasting Dalinar...would be just so sad. Not only because I admire him as a person, but also, because this would be a waste potential of an interesting character.

Hoid will have two big series dedicated to him. Dragonsteel, three prequel books, has Hoid as a primary main character. Basically, these three books are Hoid's backstory. Mistborn 3 or 4 (I forgot...3 or 4? Or both?) also has Hoid as a main character, and these books are Cosmere endgame. We know that Hoid is probably the most important character of the whole Cosmere saga and will play crucial role in how it will end. This is a given. All we know about Dalinar, is that he has a (arguably small) role in the first half of SA. Not even the whole SA series, but only the first half of the series. Brandon never said that Dalinar will be important or that he will have a role in the second half of SA and beyond (in Cosmere). Brandon's silence can be interpreted like: 1) he doesn't mention Dalinar after book 5 of SA, because Dalinar doesn't have any role after book 5 of SA (he's dead and gone), hence there's nothing to mention. or 2) he doesn't mention Dalinar after book 5 of SA, because Dalinar has a super-important role to play, and Brandon doesn't want to spoil it. So, these two variants. I think the first variant is the most likely variant. He never says anything about Dalinar, because there's nothing to say.

I wouldn't read too much into this, mostly because this (child of Honor and child of Tanavast) is the same thing, right? I mean, Honor IS Tanavast and Tanavast is Honor. He was Honor's original holder since shattering. Basically, as he's considered to be God of humans, all human population of Roshar are "children of Tanavast/Honor". So, I think this is just metaphorical. As for whether or not Shard holders can have an actual children, I think the answer is "no". How? They aren't humans anymore. Though they have a power of creation...Technically they can create humans (like it happened in mistborn), I suppose, but can we count them as an actual childern? This is a subject to debate.

This is...true. I listened audio record from one of his signings and, yeah, Brandon has said it. Eh. When I asked him about Dalinar, he said Dalinar is his favorite too. Not in a million year I will believe he's Brandon's favorite. If I were a writer and had a favorite charactet, I would, well write more of him. And seems like Brandon has more interest in writing other characters. Maybe he sees it differently than I do though.

I don't know. Usually he tries to be very careful when it comes to readers expectations. Well, at least, I got such impression. He tries not to allow people to have very high expectations for certain things. Having too high expectations are very dangerous...it can turn into a huge disappointment if/when things won't play out as people expected. Trying to avoid it, Brandon often warns people what to expect or not expect. Like, warned people not to expect Avengers type of crossover in his books. He warned not to expect many information about Heralds until the second half of Stormlight. And things like this...He also shoots down particular theories, when people think into wrong direction. He confirmed that Eshonai won't come back. And so on. With Dalinar...I'm honestly confused. He intentionally wrote his narrative in Oathbringer that way to make people think he's going to be important for the bigger SA narrative and even beyond. As a result, numerous crazy theories like "Dalinar is the second incarnation of Adonalsium". What's seem weird for me is that Brandon never warned people not to expect something like this. When asked, he always RAFOs such questions, which means "yes" or "no", but for many people it's "ohhhh, he doesn't want to answers, that's because it's something important!". At the same time, Brandon never said Dalinar is something more than a character for 1-5 books of SA. I don't know why he doesn't want to shoot down all of those crazy Dalinar-related theories. Seriously, a lot of people have VERY high expectations. It could be dangerous...If he doesn't want to write more of Dalinar, if he wants to kill him halfway through SA series, not even reaching the series final (book 10), then why doesn't he...try to warn people not to expect very much? He doesn't say anything that could imply on Dalinar's importance for SA (not to mention Cosmere), but he never said otherwise. Honestly, I'm confused. As for his narrative, it clearly was about reviving Honor's Shard. IMO, if this is all for nothing, it will be a huge disappointment.

I think it's Kaladin. Seems like he enjoys writing him for the most and he dedicated the whole book series to him. I would say it' Kaladin. I also think he has a special fondness for Lift and Renarin. In "Edgedancer" introduction he wrote that Lift is one of his favorites. As for Renarin, he never said that, so I don't have any proofs, but somehow I feel so.

I'm not sure what are you trying to say here. I assume this is a message for me as I'm supposed to be this "irrationally in love with Dalinar" person. Sorry for misunderstanding you, if I did, but it reads like another "only action oriented are allowed to have a narrative" post. Yes. I'm perfectly aware of it. I know, only characters like Kaladin can be main characters, that's why I can't find any appropriate book for myself for years. Dalinar...he's not allowed to have any screen time. He's a waste. Side-kick. If Dalinar were a main character of his own story, I would be extremely happy. But, as all other authors, Sanderson has no interest in writing Dalinar. I however strongly disagree with you that action sequences is what make a good character. I don't read books for lifeless superhero action. I read them for characters, for their thought and emotions. Like Dalinar, he's probably the most thoughtful character within the cast. Rare actions sequences with Kaladin and Szeth didn't make their characters more interesting for me. One plastic action figure fights another plastic action figure. That's not what I'm looking for in the stories. Agree that too many focus and screen time can harm characters and their stories. I disliked Kaladin in Words and Shallan in Oathbringer for this very reason. However, in SA this is true only for those two, because no one else, who isn't Kaladin and Shallan, has no focus at all. Those too, Sanderson wrote so many their chapters, in which they think the same thoughts over and over again, that it became repetitive. They got too much. Everyone else (see Dalinar) doesn't get anything. Dalinar in Words...Sanderson just threw him away like a piece of trash for more than 900 pages. The large chunk his narrative was just missed. I can assume the later books will be the same for Dalinar, as Oathbringer is the only book where he was allowed to have a narrative. That's the (my) problem with SA. There's no balance. Two characters get too much focus that harm their stories, and other characters doesn't get any focus to have any story. If Sanderson, for example in WoR, wrote a little, just a little less of Kaladin and Shallan and write a bit more of Dalinar, the story would, imho, win. But no. There's a story of Kaladin and Shallan only. All other characters are their side-kicks. He failed his main task. Unification of Roshar against Odium and creation of strong Coalition. He failed it. In comparison with Odium's forces, Dalinar's little coalition is nothing (any one "member" is Taravangian). I absolutely 100% agree with you that, according to the narrative Sanderson wrote, Dalinar's been set up to be heading towards greater things. This just makes so much sense. I agree, not giving natural development/conclusion of Dalinar's narrative (and natural development of Dalinar's character would be him becoming cosmere-related character), and wasting him instead, would be a bad writing. Why even write Dalinar this way, make readers think he's important, if there won't be any continuation? For me personally, it is a broken promise to the readers. Unfortunately, I think this is exactly what Sanderson will write. All set up and foreshadowing of Dalinar's future is just a mere trolling to fool readers expectations, then ruin it all for "cheap" shock value. Well, I think so. If I'm right, Dalinar deserves much better than this...

The real questuon is: how something like this could be covered within Dalinar's limited page time. This would demand a lot of narrative. Dalinar isn't allowed to get more than a handful of chapters per book. Sanderson never said Dalinar will have a role in Cosmere and, even this is a logical and natural development of Dalinar's character, I think all set up and foreshadowing is just a massive trolling from Sanderson. Yes, I think this is a bad writing and broken promises to the readers. But nothing I can do with it, if Sanderson decided to ruin the character like this.

Sure. But I disagree with this. I don't see that other characters do a lot, while Dalinar does nothing. Kaladin in Words is doing nothing for most of his page time, but hanging around across the warcamps. Shallan's arc in Oathbringer exists only within her head. She thinks the same thoughts over and over again. Dalinar is very active, but even if someone find him to be boring, this is also must be true for all other characters, not just Dalinar. I understand though, he isn't a main character, but more of a background side kick. I also understand that characters like Dalinar aren't allowed to have narrative in any book. All fantasy books are about "Kaladins".

I'm sorry, but I don't want to read about my dead favorite character through third person perspective in the flashbacks. It just makes it even more heart-breaking and painful, as it makes me think about times, when my favorite characters was still alive. Just no. I'm 100% no one will find it that amazing. Read flashbacks of dead character you love...If this is a character I don't care about, it's fine. But my favorite? No. No one will be happy to read about dead Kaladin. And I don't want to read about dead Dalinar. What I wanted to read is HIS chapters, HIS journey, and HIS thoughts. As for word count, people just don't pay attention on things like this, until it started to affect characters they do care about. Only those who do care for Dalinar see how small his role is, what a waste of character he really is.

And I'm a bit jealous (in a good way!) about your ability to choose favorite characters right) I always choose wrong. Somehow I never like main characters. I (unintentionally) choose those who either die or stay on the background or just a minor characters. Always. If I could...control it I would pick Kaladin as my favorite character as he is without a doubt superior choice. He never leaves the front stage. Unfortunately, I can't pick characters intentionally. It's like... my heart chooses. I can't control it. It never ends good for me though.