LerasiumMistborn

This is true, but I think, "Shard power without Vessel can gain sentience on it's own" already happened...This is Stormfather. He's a splinter of honor that gained sentience after Honor's death (presumably by merging with Tanavast's soul). I doubt he may Ascend, and even if he could, we know that Cognitive Shadows (And Stormfather is Honor's Cognitive Shadow) can't be normal (full) Shard Vessels. Because Shard should piercing all three realms, and Cognitive Shadows (well, most of them) don't have physical bodies, so they don't Connected to physical realm. I suppose, only human can be a full Vessel. If Honor's resurrection were to happen, one of the current characters should take the Shard. But I don't see anyone who could do it. That's why I think Honor won't come back... But Sazed happened on the last pages of the last book. In Mistborn 2, he's still around, but he's not a main character and he doesn't have POV chapters. SA is ten books and all those characters are supposed to be main characters with povs in all those books. If some of them Ascend, they will stop get chapters. I think Dalinar will die. I don't...I like Navani, and I wish she had more focus. But leaving her alone after Dalinar's death? This is too cruel even for Sanderson...Maybe it would be merciful too kill her too...I hate to say this. Dalinar and Navani were both widowers. They lost someone dear for them. We saw how hard it was for Dalinar to lose Evi. Navani/Gavilar union may not be perfect, but still...they lived together for 30 years. It's extremely hard to lose someone you spent lifetime with. Can you imagine this happening again? It would be so awful for Dalinar and Navani to lose each other again. Now I'm thinking how they could die together...like, at the same moment, so none of them won't experience the loss again. I can't think of anything decent... Of course, I want them to live a quite life together, but no way Sanderson will write it I agree, that Odium's Vessel will be killed in book 5. I was thinking about 1) Someone taking the Shard and merging it with another Shard (maybe Honor) 2) Someone taking the Shard and slightly changing it's Intent (though changing Intent by merging with another Shard would probably work better). In both ways, we don't have any candidate for Honor's Vessel. And Odium's Vessel...same. I don't see anyone who could change it into something better. Moash probably won't. Think about it...Navani lost her husband, then daughter...she was mourning Jasnah for a long time. Then Jasnah came back to her...but she lost her son. Will she want to live without Dalinar? Taking Dalinar from her is just too cruel...

I thought it was over too. Seems like it's not. I'd prefer if it was over, honestly. Because Champion of Light vs Champion of Darkness in fantasy? Really? Please don't. I was hoping for something more interesting and unexpected. Dalinar as Honor's Champion vs Dalinar vs Odium's Champion in a duel of minds is much more better. It was a good chance to conclude this "duel of Champions" thing. Unfortunately, it was missed, and there probably will be another cliched and boring Kaladin vs Moash. Though it perfectly fits with current boring and cliched "nature" of those books. I don't understand why does she need a successor for the Honor Shard. I don't think Honor will be repaired and taken by new Vessel. Mostly because I don't see any character who could do it. There's no one, who would be able to become a new Honor. All those characters will still be main/side characters in the second half, and Shard Vessels can' be main characters, they can't have povs and chapters. I think Navani will die for more narrative reasons. She's a minor character, featured mostly in Dalinar's chapters. Without him, there's no place left for her. It can be interpreted differently by Vessel, but not changed entirely....Like, I don't think Odium could be changed into "Love" by Vessel. It could be changed briefly though. But I think, Moash is not a good person or at least he doesn't have a strong will. I think, his Odium would be more or less the same as Rayse's Odium. "Sanderson has a habit of killing main characters." Yes, he has. He has Dalinar for this exact purpose, I did mention it. Everyone else is safe. But she's such a minor character...not even a real villain. Shard Vessels are very important for cosmere endgame. I can't see someone like her gaining such importance. Somehow it feels wrong and weird to me.

May I ask why do you think that Cultivation may want to give her power to someone else? She's alive and well, so why could she decide to change it? Also, what would change if Moash takes up Odium? Odium is Odium, it doesn't matter who holds him. I think, Shard devours everyones personality and stay more or less same. That's why I thought Odium should be destroyed (splintered, merged with another Shard...whatever). ... I forgot to mention Navani in my post. If Dalinar dies, she dies too. It's an interesting theory, I would like to read it. Though nothing will help me with gloomy thoughts about Dalinar...unless someone concvnces Sanderson to write a good ending for him. So, nothing. I read familiar theories about Adolin, but it was mostly pre-Oathbringer, and based on the whole Sadeas situation.

Yes. I just tried to think what Sanderson will write...knowing Sanderson. If I remember correctly, he said somewhere that he doesn't find Adolin's actions to be dark.

Really? He probaby doesn't fit, at least by Sanderson's standards (and he's the author, so his views are only views that matter).

Why? It may be funny, but this is exacyly what I think will happen (Adolin too). No jokes.

Kaladin will forgive himself, learn how to be happy, find himself a girlfriend, and get a happy ending. Shallan will forgive herself, overcome all inner struggles and get a happy ending. Adolin will revive the sword, become an Edgedancer, and get a happy ending. Adolin and Shallan will have 10 children with rainbow hair color. Szeth will kill that evil Herald, and become a leader of Skybreakers instead of him. He will learn how to make own decisions and how to be free. He will get a happy ending. Venli will reject Odium and lead Listeners against him. She will be their new leader once the war will be over. She will get a happy ending. Taln will be sane again. He will get a happy ending. Renarin will find the strength, become a full Radiant, save his spren from Odium's corruption, and get a happy ending. Odium will be destroyed. Big victory and happy ending for everyone. Humans and Listeners will become allies. All of them, and spren, will live together in Urithiru like a giant family, dance and sing happy songs. Dalinar will die and be forgotten just like all dead characters in Sanderson's books are forgotten by everyone on the next page after their deaths.

He did say that he removed Jasnah's and Taln's present day narrative from original version of Way of Kings into the second half. It means that they have present day narrative. It means they survive into the second half. I also posted a WoB here, on a previous page, where he says that all those five characters are main characters for the second half of the series. Not flashback characters, but main characters. I was asked to post a quote I did it. Yeah, I think people, who expect some grand plans for Dalinar's amazing future should stop expecting it. Otherwise they will be very disappointed when it won't happen. Maybe I just wanted to share. It's really painful and heart-breaking for me. Seriously. Words doesn't has less Dalinar's povs. It has no Dalinar at all. He's absent for 800 pages. He has five chapters. Sanderson just threw him away from this book. As if it would help...If I read book reviews, I will know that Dalinar will die. Knowing it is painful enough. I mean, I don't need to read it in the book to cry for it...I'm sure he'll die, right now, and it is THAT painful. I will find it soon.

For others (I mean, other readers), it can be, but not for me. I just think if the author writes such a tragic stories/backstories for his characters, it should ended on a positive note. Not death...death can't be positive ending...And he wrote very, very sad and tragic story for Dalinar. Just imagine those flashbacks in book 5, which ends...sigh, I THINK ends with Dalinar dying. Those flashbacks are heart-wrenching itself, but Oathbringer has more or less positive conclusion to make it easier to swallow. Just imagine those flashback story and the ending with Dalinar dying...this would be so sad...That's why I think it NEEDED sort of positive conclusion. By the way, Ascending isn't a positive conclusion too, it's pretty sad, and I don't like it. But at least it's better than death. Other characters can't die. I just don't see them dying. It always happens with those (characters) I love. I'm "cursed". "I seriously think you should step back from this." - I can't. He did say it. He said "Words has a little less Dalinar (than Way)". "A little less" means 30K vs 90k. Minus 60K. Now imagine what book 4 is, if it's "a lot lees", not even "a little less". Anyway, 20K, 30K, it doesn't matter. All variants are awful. Way of Kings is about Kaladin AND Dalinar AND Shallan. Words is about Kaladin and Shallan only. Oathbringer is about Dalinar AND Kaladin and Shallan. Hoe Oathbringer is ALL about Dalinar if Shallan has more chapters and higher word count in present day narrative than him? Exactly...Another person, for example, does care about Shallan and doesn't care about Dalinar. I don't care about Shallan, and care much about Dalinar. I would never said that Shallan's death would be amazing, positive and satisfying conclusion. It's not. Not for the person who doesn't want her to die. People, who do care about characters, don't care if it's satisfying or not. They just wanted those characters to live. And I needed Dalinar to be alive...

But Journey before Destination should be true for all the characters. And I think all the characters will get their happy endings, except for Dalinar. Why their journey ends with happy endings, and Dalinar's journey ends with him being killed? That is unfair. Why couldn't Dalinar get more positive conclusion? He said the same about Words.

Yes? Because Sanderson himself said he planned much bigger role for Eshonai and she was supposed to be a prominent character with on-going arc through the first half of the series, but then he changed his mind and replaced her with Venli? When he wrote Words, he was grooming Eshonai for this role. When he changed his mind and threw her away, it made all build up from for meaningless. And entire Eshinai's narrative is a waste. If he does same with Dalinar, it will be another waste. What is the same? I said he most likely will be wasted for another "amazing plot twist" like Eshonai, instead of develop natural towards the right direction of his narrative. Yes, that's what I asked. I asked about Dalinar's role in the future books. I know, the series is ten books, it's not going to end with books 4 and 5. And Sanderson always says this is one series, not two. He already spoiled many things considering this series, like Lift survival, and some others. Nothing for Dalinar. Never. He never mentions Dalinar, never leaves any, even a tiny comment on him. Nothing. Because there's nothing to mention. Other characters have equally big roles in all the books. Kaladin's word count in Words and Way of Kings and Shallan's in Words and Oathbringer is almost the same. The difference between Dalinar's word count in Oathbringer and Words (and book 4) is insane. He has five chapters. Five. And 30k words. No other character doesn't have such a small role in any book. I know, it's funny to laugh at me, I don't mind really, but there's no need to over-emphasized my words. There's a BIG difference between 400K words and Dalinar's 30K in Words. All I wanted is an equal treatment for all the character. I wanted Dalinar to have a prominent role, just like all other main characters. Why Kaladin is allowed to have 70-100k words in ALL the books? Why Dalinar isn't allowed to have more than 30k words in any book that isn't Oathbringer? Sanderson shouldn't consider him as one of the main characters. If he made it clear since the beginning that "Dalinar is a character for one book only, in all other books, he's a side character", I would know what to expect and I would never read those books. If he named this series Kaladin Archive, I would know what those books are about, and would never read them. As if the fact Dalinar is the character for the first half of the series only, while all other characters have roles in all ten books (I THINK so) isn't enough...he isn't even allowed to have a bigger role in the first half. Do you like Words of Radiance? Do you like that Dalinar has five chapters in it? Do you like that book 4 will be the same book with no Dalinar in it? ALL characters have big roles in ALL the books. ALL of them, except for ONE Dalinar, whole role in any book, except for Oathbringer, is very, very small.

Majority of people don't invest themselves to fictional characters. Many people just enjoy plot twists including unexpected characters deaths. They don't care about those characters and their lives, they just enjoy guessing "who will die next" and enjoy "blood". People start care only when is happens with their favorite characters. The fact people say how amazing and satisfying Dalinar's death would be indicates that people don't really care about Dalinar as a...human. I swear, if he killed Kaladin, shitstorm would be so strong it would destroy this forum. Dalinar? Nobody cares about him, OR do care, but only about him as a plot device to provide an interesting story. Not for his life. I'm just different. It was a mistake from my part though, as it brought me only pain. But for me, it's not satisfying at all. I just wanted Dalinar to live... Well, he writes such books about Kaladin. Three books in a row. And fourth is coming. Because he's the main character, and not a minor side-kick like Dalinar.

Yes, it bothers me. Because for everyone else Dalinar's death is just another "amazing story and satisfying conclusion", but for me it's a personal tragedy. Like a real loss of something dear to me. You can laugh at me, you can call me an idiot for feeling so strong for a fictional character, but this is how it is. And many people fell strongly for those characters. I read every day "I will stop reading the books if Kaladin dies", "I will riot if Kaladin dies", "I will kill myself, if Kaladin dies" together with endless complains about lack of Kaladin's page time (What??). So, for everyone Kaladin's death is a tragedy and end of the world. Dalinar's death is a satisfying conclusion. Kaladin needs to live to make a satisfying narrative, and Dalinar NEEDS to die to get satisfying conclusion. For, me it's NOT satisfying. I understand that he's not even a main character and very few people care for him, but I do care, and for me, his death is something more than another death of fictional character. Yes, I'm an idiot, because I was stupid enough to believe Sanderson will make a book, where character like Dalinar would be allowed to have a narrative. Nope, he's just another minor background character, doomed to die. It was foolish to think otherwise. He's here, in this story, only to die and create a "moment". So people, who don't care for his character, but want "blood" will be happy and get satisfying narrative. So, for some idiots like me, it's not a good story at all. It's a loss. Real loss.

I think it was done poorly. It was obvious that Eshonai's supposed to be main character, but Sanderson changed his mind halfway through and just threw her away. Her, all build up, everything. End result is wierd. And it made some things clear for me: Sanderson doesn't care for his characters. If he can waste them, throw them away that easily, then they're just a plot devices for him, nothing more.

SA being his magnum opus doesn't mean he can allow himself to include stuff like secret history in it. It's not even a novel...it's a book about Cosmere lore. I think it's pretty obvious (from Oathbringer) that Dalinar is on the way to reviving Honor and becoming it's new Vessel. The narrative is written to make readers think/expect it will happen. Just like Eshonai was on the way to bonding a spren and becoming a Radiant. Her narrative was written to make readers expect those things. Nothing prevents Honor-Dalinar scenario to be wasted for another "amazing" twist. Situation with Eshonai demonstrates that Sanderson loves such "twists", and it increases chances for the same waste of Dalinar's story.

He could at least add something like "the rest is a RAFO..." He just never mentions Dalinar, as if his absence in the second half goes without saying. When he's talking about other characters, it sounds way more positive and ambitious. He often says, "future [of this character] is a big RAFO" or "there's something that will please you, but saying more would give spoilers" or "I think you will be happy [with this character future]." With Dalinar, nothing. He never said he will have a future nor than we (who love Dalinar) will like it. He struggles to find any encouraging words when people ask him about Dalinar.

Becuse secret history is a story behind the story, a book written for hardcore cosmere fans specifically. Sanderson said he doesn't want SA to be like this, so it won't happen. It's like Eshonai, who was on her way to becoming a Radiant, only to be thrown away for a mere shock twist. I think Dalinar is the same. But entirely different doesn't make any sense. Dalinar is Connected to Honor, he has Honor's spren, he can use Honor's powers somehow. Trying something else is madness. Why even write Dalinar/Honor story if it means nothing? It ruins everything. That won't happen because book 5 was originally Dalinar's book, where he got his memories back. Also, Sanderson said he doesn't want such things in Stormlight. I don't know. For me, they were pretty predictable. I didn't find any surprises nor big Wtf moments. I don't want Dalinar to die. That's it.

I kept repeating since the beginning: "I asked Sanderson about Dalinar's future and he said about books 4 and 5, but didn't mention the second half at all, that's why I think Dalinar will be dead in the second half". That's it. That's what I always said. Of course, he wouldn't say "Dalinar will die", but this seems to be a logical interpretation of what he said at least for me. I agree, that Dalinar dying is the obvious thing, that's why I think he will die. That is just obvious. Sanderson never subverts expectations. He draw a target on Dalinar's back since the beginning. He should also write "I'm this character who always dies in any book" on Dalinar's forehead. That's how obvious it is. Because Dalinar is this "older character within the cast, who's doomed to die". It won't. Because the narrative implied on different development for Dalinar. Why even give him Honor's powers and write Oathbringer if it means nothing? You don't tease readers like this just to broke their expectations. That's a bad writing. The book is intentionally written to make readers expect big things from Dalinar. And some people have ridiculously high expectations for this character. That's what I wanted to say. I shouldn't expand my expectations. I have none. But maybe people, who expect Dalinar to be the most important character within the cosmere, should reduce theirs? Because when the book will be out and (IF) it won't happen, those people will be very, very disappointed. Do you REALLY believe Dalinar may Ascend instead of dying? Like, really?

I think, it's not about me reading to much into Sanderson's words. It's others...Why should we came with..."creative interpretations" if there's much more simple answers? For me, the right answer is the simple one. For me, "Lift will be grown up in the second half" means "Lift will survive into the second half and will be grown up". Not "Lift's ghost will be still around" or other weird things. "Kaladin will be important for the rest of the series" means "Kaladin will still be main character for the rest of the series". Not "Kaladin will leave Cognitive Shadow behind and will communicate with others through Shadesmar" or "Memory of Kaladin will be strong...". No. Why? And for why doesn't he mention Dalinar after book 5 the most simple answer is "because there's nothing to mention". I think Dalinar will die. I can't add nothing else to indicate it as my opinion. I explained why I think so.

Sure. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/355-idaho-falls-signing/#e10449 "It's the same series but some of the cast will change. For instance, Lift is being seeded as a main character for that series. She'll be grown up, so she won't be quite-- She'll still be Lift, but she may not be quite as teenagery." No. Interesting thing is, you, and Chaos, and Greywatch, and almost everyone, think that Dalinar will die too. This is a weird situation. I think Dalinar is gonna die, you think Dalinar is gonna die, every single reader thinks that Dalinar is gonna die, because is THAT obvious, and yet you all disagree with me. I, honestly, don't understand. So, we SHOULD believe that Lift is gonna die, despite having a confirmation of her survival? This is just weird. Why do people ask questions, if they think the answers mean nothing? Dalinar is the same. Obviously, walking corpse, but we SHOULD believe he will survive somehow? What's the purpose of pretending otherwise when this is THAT obvious. I don't fear his death. I know that he will die and I'm disappointed (more like heart-broken) by it. So yeah, there's no need to read further. It's enough for me to know that he will die to cry my eyes out. I don't need to read this scene in the book. It's not glorious, it's a waste. Not only this is painful, but this is also meaningless. Read "adventures of walking corpse" is meaningless.

Ok, I just lost. I look into it and for me it's absolutely clear. I don't get why should I interpret it differently. For me, the most simple answer is the right answer. No. Jasnah and Taln were main characters in the first version of Way of Kings. Sanderson said that he moved their narrative in the second half. It would be logical to assume, if he moved their narratives into the second half if means that there IS a narrative for them. That means they will survive into the second half. Same for Lift. Her survival is confirmed. Period. After Sanderson said she WILL survive? Not anymore. Anti-hope?...As I said, I was convinced that Dalinar is going to die a long time ago. Even without those WoBs it seems so obvious for me.

This is the same situation like "Lift situation". He said multiple times that she will live into the second half, but each time someone points on it he answers that no, he doesn't confirm it. But he DID! I don't understand why he's saying this! This is the same: Me: can you tell me about Dalinar's role in the future books? He: He has a (little) role in books 4 and 5. That's it. Me: If this is it, then he won't show up after book 5? Ho: No, it doesn't mean this. I'm sorry, but his all respects to Sanderson, I think he gives too many spoilers, and when people point on it he tries to downplay his own words and says that no, that's not spoilers. But they are... As for having hopes, I believe that having false hopes is wrong and dangerous. It's better to know now that Dalinar won't survive and won't have any important role within this story than find it out in the book. Really, someone believe that Dalinar could survive? He has absolutely zero chances. There're no hopes left. Ok, thank you, I didn't know this. I thought "they" is always plural. This is a bit better. Seems like Honor is not dead dead even if he was killed... I think I understood what he meant...he just tried to downplay his own words, but for me, he said enough.

Why not? There're three characters. He says "those who will survive" and "they will have an arc". "They" is plural. He said someone will die. "They" means that two character are alive. One is dead. Yes. I was thinking that Dalinar will kill him in book 5 and books 6-10 will deal with something else. For me, this is big spoiler. Dalinar/Odium confrontation was "core" narrative of the books so far. It also means, that this plotline will end with nothing. Dalinar won't kill Odium (IF Dalinar dies in 5 and Odium survives 5), and the whole narrative is just wasted.

No, because Sanderson said he will be an important character for the whole series. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/343-pats-fantasy-hotlist-interview/#e10208 He said that only one of them will die. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/377-idaho-falls-signing/#e12300 So, he confirmed Kaladin's survival. He said that only one character will die. Then, when I pointed on it, he's saying no, no, it doesn't mean anything. The thing is, he already spoiled almost everything. He spoiled that Odium will survive into the second half. He spoiled who will survive and who won't. Odium's survival means that the whole thing with Desolations will continue in the second half. It also means that Roshar won't be destroyed. It also means many more things that shouldn't be revealed yet and that makes reading of the next two books completely meaningless. I honestly can't understand Sanderson at all. On the same signing he's like: "I can't promise that Lift will be alive in book 6", and then: "Lift in going to be an adult in book 6". If he wanted to keep the second half in a secret than he shouldn't leave any comments about it at all. Because "I confirmed Lift survival, but that doesn't mean she will survive", "I confirmed Kaladin survival, but it doesn't mean he won't die in book 5", and "I confirmed Dalinar's death, but it doesn't mean he will die" make absolutely no sense for me.

Ok, I will paraphrase myself. I knew Dalinar was going to die since the very beginning. My thoughts based not only on this WoB (though this WoB convinced my I was right too), but on combination of various things. I was thinking he's going to die long before I got this message. What he says? I asked him about Dalinar's future within the series. He answered: small role in book 4 and a little bigger role in book 5. That's it. I didn't add anything from myself, he said it himself. What more can be asked? Dalinar staying prominent pov character with many chapters and screen time. Dalinar having role within the whole series, not only in the HALF of the series. As you're saying the entire series in 10 books. Sanderson said Dalinar has "moments" only in books 4 and 5 and that's it. That means he has no "moments" in the second half of the series and that means his role within the series will end in book 5. And I don't care for "the most powerful and epic scene of Dalinar dying". I don't care...even if this is masterpiece of writing, I don't care. That's not what I wanted to read.