Wit Beyond Measure

She has read a lot of fantasy and a little of the same fantasy that I have, but she has unfortunately never read Sanderson. I've tried to bribe her with the awesome foreshadowing, which we both love. And recently I've tried bribing her with the Shardblades. She met her boyfriend when she joined a D&D group at her school. They were impressed with her complex backstories for weapons and characters, especially since it was her first time playing. Reading helped with that, of course. And so I told her that the Shardblades were crazy awesome and that she needed to become familiar with them. And Voidbringers. And spren. Everyone needs to read Sanderson.

Our eldest started high school this year, started driving this month, and just got her first real boyfriend on Friday night, mere hours after I'd christened him her almost-boyfriend. So much growing up! Annie Pooh let me know that the new beau had been walking her to class, and I was all, but no touching, right? She said they had been hugging. At that point, I thought it was the perfect time to quote much of this chapter to her: And then I told her that I said all of that to say this, "NO MATING!" I told her I'd be saying that every time they hugged. And then this was the conversation: Do you have a favorite section of Oathbringer? Do you have a real-world application?

Hi, @Yata. Here is the book evidence as I see it. Above, we have Urithiru sleeping. Dalinar conversing with the Stormfather: So the third sibling - or Sibling - is also slumbering, implying a connection to Urithiru and it's fabrial-like power. Here, we also know that we have three especially godlike spren: The Stormfather, the Nightwatcher, and a third "sibling" who is likely the Sibling. So one of the three Bondsmiths has to almost constantly be at Urithiru, probably due to the nature of the specific spren that this Bondsmith always bonds. So this quote heavily implies that the three Bondsmith spren are the Stormfather, the Nightwatcher, and the Sibling. If the Sibling is one of the Bondsmith spren, it is likely we will see the Sibling bonded to some Bondsmith by the end of the series. And from the Coppermind: Why Navani? Well, this evidence is more subjective. Jasnah might be equally knowledgeable of fabrials, of course, but the Soulcasting she does is all with a fake fabrial. And she recommends that Shallan's fabrial be fixed by Navani - not herself - when they get to the Shattered Plains, describing Navani as a renowned artifabrian. Jasnah isn't so much about binding folks together. And why would we want to tie an Elsecaller down to one single location, nullifying her Transportation surge, taking her out of the fighting, and keeping her from the Elsecaller task of hiding the perfect gems? Though one could theoretically bond more than one spren, it seems like the Sibling would cancel most of Ivory's benefits. In Navani's only chapter, Pieces of a Fabrial (Ch 96), we see Navani bringing together all of the leaders at Urithiru, designing their chair-carrying tradition so she could study them, listening to the others and constantly asking herself how she can bring order from this chaos. The entire chapter seems to support Navani as one who is growing into a lady who can bond people together. Here is a little bit: So Dalinar gathered but didn't form the coalition. Navani starts to do that herself in this chapter, particularly after this quote. I can't help but wonder if one of her oaths might be, I will bring order to the chaos. Lastly, from WoB: And then, as I said in the original post, we have Navani's chapter symbol as a fabrial whereas Jasnah's is Shadesmar, Shallan's is Pattern, Kal's is a cape in the wind (implying Windrunner), and Adolin's is himself and Maya. So many if not most chapter symbols relate to Order or spren somehow.

I thought this was an interesting response, mostly because I would have expected something more like, "Damnation no!" Hmm.

Ha! Thank you, Hoid. I think the fact that Sanderson said "mundane objects" (and placed these objects under such intense security) sent bells off in my head to pay attention to these ostensibly mundane things, since they probably weren't nearly as mundane as promised. And then comments about where the Jezrien knife came from (in the huge full reactions thread) and why they were suddenly able to kill Heralds made me go back to look at those "mundane" objects to see if there was a knife. And there was. I definitely could be wrong. I suspect that the sapphire pommel was added by Team Odium specifically with Jezrien in mind, perhaps because only his Order's gem would work on him. An ancient knife that possibly hadn't been used (or cleaned and polished much) for millennia might not look important enough to be in the inner vault with the King's Drop, especially without the pommel. Or they might not be the same knife.

Or perhaps brilliant execution. I have a theory that the old knife mentioned to be in the innermost vault with the King's Drop might be the actual target of the heist: Because perhaps this is the same knife that turns up later in Moash's hands: And then we have this conversation between Venli and Odium: Some think the bane is Dalinar, but I think he's implying that this prize is something, not someone, and located in Thaylen City. That's why they came to Thaylen City. And I wouldn't call even the Blackthorn the bane of Roshar. There were many men more evil than he, even at the height of his evilness. The knife seemed to have sucked something out of Jezrien, his soul perhaps. And a soul-sucking knife seems truly evil indeed. Of course, it could be a spren or something else. But the sapphire (the gem specifically for Jes) is occupied by something.

Yes! And the moment when Odium makes Dalinar relive killing Evi, the sound of her screams over and over, in his effort to break Dalinar completely. Dalinar relives all of that pain again, the most powerful pain I can imagine, and then he stands up and denies that pain to Odium. Almost immediately after taking responsibility and owning the pain, we get this moment: So he does get that forgiveness he was looking for, and he gets it from exactly the right one. Evi was quite filled with awesomeness, actually. I also adored this moment, after all of the disagreements they'd had over his violence, when he suspects that Evi poisoned their sons against him: The Renarin-Dalinar moment that @MonsterMetroid mentions is among my favorites, as well. And I would wholeheartedly agree with Monster's reread sentiment: these books are built to be better on the rereads than the original reads. So many things are placed in the slow Parts 1 through 3 that won't be slow at all after finishing OB. And then after reveals in the next couple of books, a few years down the line, we'll realize how dense the goodness is in these three parts because that's just how Sanderson writes. I was completely floored on my first Sanderson reread of WoK and WoR when prepping to read Oathbringer. I just had no idea how brilliant they were before that moment.

One of the early descriptions of spheres in the Physical Realm reminds me of the glass beaded souls of objects that we have in the Cognitive Realm in the Shadesmar seas of glass beads: And then later in Shadesmar: I tend to think of Roshar currency as possibly being much larger gems stored physically in Shadesmar with only their glass bead soul representations showing up in Roshar. Or maybe not. But I don't think the resemblance of tiny glass beads and spheres is purely coincidental. And, if we do have the souls of gems in Roshar, I'd love to see these manifested back into the physical realm at some point.

In the Words of Brandon, I've been noticing how often he talks about the Horneaters and Herdazians being kinned to the Parshendi, part-Parshendi. One fan asks why Horneaters can see spren, and Brandon answers by emphasizing the Parshendi bloodline that Horneaters have, implying that this is the reason Horneaters can see spren. So I'm wondering why Brandon created and emphasizes this relationship. Could it be possible that, especially with the Horneaters seeing spren, a Horneater could have a gemheart? And, if so, could they have different forms? That moment when Rock fires the Shardbow is so shocking to Kaladin that he wonders how that was even possible, even with Stormlight. When an author writes something like that, and especially when Sanderson does, that is usually an awesome clue that the reader should be wondering exactly the same thing. As his bridge leader, Kal should know Rock's strength pretty well. And so the implication is that something strange is going on in that scene (OB 1187).

Stormlight supply and demand is what I meant. As the demand for Stormlight rises, so does the value of the infused gems. As each Highstorm renews the supply of Stormlight, demand falls as does the value of infused spheres relative to dun.

I am loving the Dalinar, but I'd be tempted to call it the Dal'ar. I'm also wondering in whom we trust, though I suppose most would still say the Almighty. I'd like to say Adonalsium, but that probably wouldn't fit! And I'd love to say "The United Princedoms of Alethkar" on the 10,000 Dal'ars and have that actually be true. Those are some crazy beautiful monetary units, @hoiditthroughthegrapevine! Even though there is a very definite and natural fluctuation in the current gem monetary system, there is an odd stability (a cycle) in that fluctuation. And there could be an artificial fluctuation in a paper system. I prefer natural fluctuation that reflects current supply and demand rather than a system that is more easily manipulated by artificially imposed fluctuation. I long for the days when we at least had gold to match the paper. Now, if we run out of money, we just print more. I do love that the spheres of Roshar have all of the practical uses listed above, where gold coins were impractical.

Ah, yes! Thank you. Cultivationspren is indeed what Ico mentions, and what I meant to say, rather than creationspren. I do get the two confused. He says gardeners are particularly the best, which seems like it could be a nod to Wyndle.

I love to speculate and theorize, not on what is but on what might be or what could be. Sometimes I'm right. Oftentimes I'm not. Sometimes I have a ton of evidence. Sometimes I have a little. Sanderson is the perfect author for theorizing because he's the King of Foreshadowing, the Master of Architects, the Builder of Worlds and Stories. He leaves us thousands of tiny clues that could mean any number of things. Or could not. So I came here seeking a place where I could theorize with like-minded folks who are all very wonderful experts in all things Stormlight. And you are such wonderful experts! But many here seem terribly offended my hypotheses. I postulate and, like the fabrial-detecting spren of Kholinar, users descend on me. I seem to have defiled their sacred Sanderson by suggesting alternative interpretations and ideas. I do not wish to give offense. I apologize to those I've offended. And I would love to find a way of sharing my ideas with other intuitive-minded folks who love exploring what might be or what could be while not offending those practical-minded folks who need empirical proof. I know that this is a great deal to ask, but would it be possible to have a subforum for Oathbringer Theories & Intuitions so those offended by intuitions can know to steer away from such abominations? With hundreds of daily posts, I'm surprised there aren't more subforums, but there could be a reason for that. I see the disconnect as an S versus N thing in terms of the Myers-Briggs personality types. http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/sensing-or-intuition.htm?bhcp=1 I'm an N, obviously! (Pattern is my kindred spirit.) I love Ss. I'm married to one. But if my Nness is offending some Ss, I'd rather be somewhere I'm not offending.

Brandon seems fond of the second theory.

I was picturing Arclo as Spiderman as something funny and definitely not something that literally happened in the story. Why constantly insist that the ultra-boring, obvious, and mundane explanations must be the only ones?

I'm so sorry I got all of the wrong quotes. I had a feeling I wasn't understanding what you wanted, mostly because I hadn't noticed the same thing. But I really see it now! I am now picturing Arclo as Spiderman with silken webs shooting from one wrist to stick the Skybreakers to the floor and shanty, but with a special building-morphing oil shooting from the other wrist. I think I'd read the scene as a simple lightweaving at first, but your highlights have convinced me that it could be something significantly different. I know, right? How cool is that? And not only an inanimate mind, but the cremlings seem to be sentient independently, functioning as little cremling spies, which makes it fun to go through and look for them all over the place (I search "cremling" or "legger"), spying on Lift throughout Edgedancer as well as spying on the assassin, the surgeon, the spy, and possibly the highprince, too. One of them laughs at Lift!!! We may already have. Brandon confirmed that, in the epilogue of WoR, Wit waits on Jasnah and blabbers on and on to a group of seemingly innocuous cremlings who are really a Sleepless. That's only the beginning. The whole bit is hilarious when viewed in the new light!

What a great topic! I love it! I have a quote from the Arcanum: I suspect that eye color matches the color of the bonded spren because the bonds - both Gemheart and Nahel - attach the spren to their soul. And, as @Extesian just said, the eyes are the windows to the soul. From WoR back cover: The powers of Surgebindings comes from the bond with spren. That bond can only be formed when fissures already exist in the soul in order to be able to bind the the soul of the person to the spren. Or that's my interpretation of the quote. Fused spren already are the souls of the Ancient ones permanently fused to corrupted spren, which is why Fused eyes glow red from the corrupted spren and why Parshendi lose their souls when bonding with Fused spren that come pre-attached to souls, such as when Demid lost his soul to the Ancient One and Venli almost lost her soul. That Fused bond can't be broken, it seems, since the ancient soul and spren are permanently fused together, which is what gives sentience to these hostless Fused spren and what allows them to be reborn in new host bodies anytime their current host dies. Venli's Regal spren is corrupted, which makes her eyes glow red as well, but the Regal spren seems unattached to an Ancient soul, allowing Venli to keep her soul but have red eyes and an almost-Fused form (of power). When Venli bonds with Timbre, Timbre holds the Regal spren captive so Venli can keep her form and can turn her eyes red at will. Perhaps the burned out eyes of the spren-killed folks reflect that the spren burns their souls when touching them as a Shardblade? Perhaps scratched out deadeyes represent the broken bond that breaks the spren's soul but can sometimes be repaired (Maya!!!!). What do Sja-anat's eyes of glowing white holes represent?!!! And, equally fascinating to me, what do the larkin's eyes of silver (one of the few substances that seem immune to Investiture) mean for a creature who eats Investiture? What do Nale's larkin's sickly eyes mean? There are some yellow Voidspren in Kholinar who attack anytime fabrials (descending as streaks of yellow light) and who lead Parshendi toward Kholinar. And as others have pointed out, the Voidbinding chart shows yellow lightning. So if we ever do see Parshendi with yellow eyes, I am thinking run, run, run!

Thank you, greatly! Here are the Edgedancer quotes I'd highlighted in that scene where Lift discovers the corpses and cremlings, which I think is the scene you mean. I think all are Arclo speaking. This next quote makes it obvious that the Sleepless are the authors of the back of the books, but I've just seen a WoB confirming that, too. And then back to what you've said at the end: The Sleepless anatomy definitely reminds me of Cultivation! The way that Axies and Arclo speak reminds me of Wit. Perhaps it is an immortal thing. I'm not certain if the Sleepless and Blues have the same origin stories or not. They definitely share a great deal in common but are also decidedly different. Those covers! I don't get the backs of books, either, and when I read the Sleepless authored them, I looked at all of them today and was just floored! WoK back cover: So, this confirms what I'd wondered from Arclo's spiel about "the surgeon" being Kal. Check. And I'm thinking Dal or Kal or Lift for the one who will redeem us. But who, who, who is "one of them will destroy us"?!!!!! (I love Orson Scott Card's Ender and Bean books, and I adore Rothfuss. Robin Hobb has a quote somewhere about Sanderson, too, and she's the bomb. I should have been paying more attention to Sanderson before now.) The cover implies one of the four but I think it really means one of the new Radiants. And my best guess is that the Radiant will be a Dustbringer since I believe that Dustbringers might be the real Voidbringers (in the physical sense of the True Desolation, where Odium brings an emotional void). And the WoR cover talks about how the Explorer, "straddling the fates of two peoples, is forced to choose between slow death and a terrible betrayal of all she believes." Uh, yeah, who? Jasnah? But what is the terrible betrayal? That one still seems muddy. The OB back covers don't seem to fit as well, either, but I can tell who they are probably supposed to be.

So I am probably late to the game on this one, but I found this: And immediately thought of Midnight Essence, which sound like mistwraiths, to me (: And then Mistwraiths: Of course, there are stark differences, too, with the biggest being how violent Midnight Essence seems to be, though perhaps Odium has been able to remake them as weapons. Where do you think we've seen kandras?

The more I ponder over this tale, the more I'm wondering what could possibly cause Cultivation (Mishim) to experience such deep loss: Perhaps the Aimians aren't simply other-worlders, as I originally suspected, but somehow pieces of a god, demi-gods, perhaps even pieces of Honor, explaining Cultivation's jealousy and sense of loss. Sanderson has placed the Aimians in a list of two gods and the splinters of gods. Very interesting! Certainly, their immortality and incredible self-healing and -morphing abilities imply high levels of Investiture, where Skybreaker squires and even the Heralds themselves should and do know (respectively) to stay away from Arclo's kind - a different kind than the blue, admittedly, but I suspect the same applies. (Edgedancer) And then here is a note Sanderson gave on Axies in an autographed copy, though he's probably speaking of Siah Aimians or perhaps all Aimians in general here rather than just Axies: First mortal and THEN immortal because of some interaction with magic, with Investiture? Was their mortal form human? And was that interaction with magic the event alluded to in Wit's tale?

I've seen many talking about having the audiobook, possibly with the hardback but without having the Kindle version. I wanted to point out that sometimes it is cheaper to get both the Kindle and Audible book versions than the audiobook alone, especially if you don't have the Audible subscription. When not logged in, Amazon gives a combined cost of $29.98 for both the Kindle and Audible versions if you check the "Add Audible book" box. Separately, the Audible book is $50+ or $60+ on both iTunes and at Audible, unless you have an Audible subscription, which would be $15 every month but just one credit of $15 would get you Oathbringer (which is a crazy awesome deal for 55 hours of listening). So if you have the subscription and use it every month, the Audible book alone is the better deal. Otherwise, buying the Kindle too will save you at least $20 or $30, I think. And you get the Kindle version. By the way, that is Oathbringer Jasnah has on the cover, right? We saw Jasnah use her mad Elsecaller skills like this at the Thaylen City battle, but did we ever see her with Oathbringer?

So @The One Who Connects what exactly do you think this hint is saying? That her soul has been displaced by the bonded Stormfrom spren and is currently in Braize being tortured?? I can't seem to get any other interpretation out of this somewhat cryptic WoB. I missed this comment, but I was so confused by Brandon's "hint," too. My best guess is that this is Eshonai's soul crying out because she is being suppressed by - or held captive by - the stormspren. I don't think stormspren displace the soul completely, though, because it seems only the Fused do that. Perhaps he's talking about when Timbre holds Venli's Fused spren captive? But that doesn't directly tell us whose voice is screaming inside Eshonai since I don't think her warform spren is being held captive.

Yes, I said something similar somewhere the other day, that Fused were the souls/spirits of the ancient Listeners fused with corrupted (red) spren. Back to the search for yellow lightning, I did find a few instances of "yellow spren," where I am beginning to think all spren can take on the form of lightning. Ulim is red but the envoy-like spren leading Kal and the band of Alethi parshmen are following was yellow. So there definitely appear to be yellow voidspren and red voidspren. And perhaps the violet lightning strikes (from the quote above) denote violet voidspren we've yet to see or just simply Voidlight, like the white lightning appears to represent Stormlight.

You're a technical illustrator! Oh, of course you are. I was jelly of your mad graphics skills, I must say, but now those skills make so much sense. I'm not able to find "yellow lightning." I see 17 matches for "red lightning" in WoR, first referring the the scary Voidspren like "red lightning" that Syl keeps foretelling and then foretelling the Everstorm of "red lightning," which brings the souls (spren) of the Fused in at least several instances. There were 13 matches for "red lightning" in OB, again mostly with the Everstorm. I was able to find one instance describing yellow lightning. Kal and Szeth are mostly in the Highstorm at the end of WoR when the Everstorm and Highstorm collide, so perhaps this is why: In WoK, the only color associated with lightning would be when lightning is described as white teeth in the night, though I could see how natural lightning would be seen as white or light blue or light yellow (the Flash). In the first Venli interlude, I-3, Ulim is said to be lightning several times though the color isn't specified. In the second Venli interlude, I-6, my Kindle version mentions "bright red lightning" from the Everstorm. Now, I have noticed that different versions do sometimes say different things, especially when I'm both listening to the Audible and reading the Kindle versions at the same time. And even if we only see yellow lightning once, that's not to say the yellow lightning wasn't intentional and foreshadowing.

So this seems to imply that the Honorspren created by Honor himself all died at the Recreance (this is a speculative surmise). You might have realized this already, but my interpretation of this quote is that the Stormfather created Sylphrena and some other children, all of whom died in the Recreance. I'm sure some of Honor's children did die, but not all of them surely. The thought Syl had died, too, and he was so distraught by losing all his babies that he didn't create new children for centuries. When he did find Syl, she was literally his only surviving daughter. He became extraordinarily overprotective of her: the helicopter parent who just happens to be the Stormfather! Eventually, he did create ten more children who are probably still living and apparently procreating now instead of the Stormfather.