gawwyt

1 hour ago, Ailvara said:

Kaladin has had his share of struggling with the 4th Ideal in OB and I don't see Brandon stretching it further than book 4. A caring partner would be cool, but he has Syl, bridge 4, his family, and his own strength, so he'll be alright and be an awesome Radiant.

I don't get why you assume he would be the only new Herald. The old ones are mostly not good for anything anymore and I don't see Kaladin becoming Taln 2.0 - there are a few other characters that are well suited for the job and won't dodge the responsibility if it comes to that. It would serve neither the story nor character development to treat Kaladin as a special snowflake in this case. If someone gets send to Damnation for those 15 years, my bet is on the whole Dalinar's Ten in Thaylen. Shallan is an obvious candidate for the Ash LW replacement - the only one, in fact.

Im stabbing wildly in the dark with the whole kal is only new herald theory, but I do have some small pieces of reasoning that he would get the snowflake treatment. If the suspiciously like a Hemalurgic spike for storm-light dagger wasn't in play I wouldn't entertain the theory at all. If it wasn't Moash holding it.. If the champion with nine shadows had ten shadows.. If the currently stored herald investiture had come from any of the heralds other than the Kaladin analog that is Jezrian..

Theory breakdown:

1 minute ago, Calyx said:

In his last scene, he was murdering an insane homeless guy in cold blood. 

Who had the title King of the Heralds.

So technically you're both right!

58 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

Actually, the 4th Ideal is (most probably) about how he cannot protect everyone, so I don't think we'll go there. Anyway, if that was the case, I think Brandon would have already killed off Kaladin's family instead of additionally giving him a baby brother to worry about.

And if we'll have new heralds at the end of book 5, Shallan is likely to be one as well, and Adolin is not, which actually fits with my theory on all this.

52 minutes ago, aemetha said:

I mostly agree with this. I suspect it is probably more protection and leading themed though. Something like "I will protect the rights of people to make their own choices and accept the consequences". It keeps the theme of protecting, and adds an aspect of leading whereby people are allowed to develop, while also adding the caveat that you can't protect people from the consequences of their own choices.

I agree with you on what the 4th ideal is likely to be about. How ever i disagree that were going to see Kaladin swear it in the 4th book without massive external help getting over his hangups. The sort of help that might've been provided by a caring and understanding partner but alas we are in the broodiest time-line.

As I said earlier I think this particular dysfunction of Kals will actually make him a worse radiant, but a better herald. Especially if you consider that by not giving in to the torture of the voidbringers* he will effectively be protecting everyone, humans and parshmen alike. And by suffering eternally no less! A perfect situation for Kaladin powered-by-my-own-suffering Stormblessed.

Grab your tinfoil hats.

Now the assumption was made that if Kaladin is becoming a herald then we would be getting multiple new heralds (and that laughably Shallan would be one of them). I dont think were getting multiple new heralds I think the existing heralds are going to die and were going to get one new herald and one champion-with-nine-shadows. If this is the broodiest time line-then they may both be Kaladin, but I doubt it.

Hell I could be wrong Kaladins new baby brother and family may be what he needs to heal during that year of time-skip while he sails around on his sky-ship with bridge 4 singing sky-shanties. Sanderson has definitely shown that he likes making Kaladin happy right?

*using this to refer to the things that torture the heralds not humans.

Edit: Almost forgot to ask, Why do you think Shallan is likely to become a herald? Other than MC status.

4 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

Also, I'm worried that sinking Shalladin would end up with setting up some pretty random last-minute love interest for Kaladin, something like Spook's storyline in HoA; the only alternative is leaving him alone (and I'm with Syl on this one). He's one of the main characters, he deserves more than being a tool in Shallan's arc. 

Unfortunately I think Shallan/Adolin is endgame (if not executed perfectly). I believe that Kaladin will remain single until he dies. Ending up in a relationship would give him someone to protect over everyone else and I'm pretty sure Kaladin's need to protect everyone is going to turn out to be a very important plot point. At least when he takes Jezrien's place as a herald.

Kinda off topic but..

If we don't get a scene with "Captain" Kaladin and bridge 4 flying on a fabrial sky ship singing seasky-shanties I WILL RIOT.

2 hours ago, Calyx said:

Not that I can recall, in either Edgedancer or Oathbringer.

In that case I would hazard that in "becoming" Law or Unity or Protection as the 5th ideal the surge-binder becomes so heavily invested that they provide their own storm-light for their lashings. Thus no longer needing to carry spheres or wait on high-storms. 

I assume that we never explicitly see a radiant with a pouch of spheres or actually run out of storm-light in a vision either.

10 minutes ago, Willow said:

Moash can't do this, a thunderclast will have accidentally stepped on him between book 3 and 4.

But how else will Kal take Jezrien's place as herald?

Jezrien who's oath-blade provides the power of the windrunners.

Who's divine attributes are leadership and protection.

If Im right you'll see a bunch of bonding between kaladin and others in the first two thirds of book 4. With the others coming to depend on kaladin. Then his death will be used to mark the beginning of a set of massive losses for the humans along with a bunch of major characters getting severely broken up at kals apparent true death.

14 minutes ago, scyron said:

Axalacious bloke, I love it

Shallan needs to get out the way of Kalaolin right quick.

47 minutes ago, Willow said:

...And then he has a dramatic return, same as in book 1, 2 and 3? In the mean time, Bridge Four happily continues to disbelieve he died, and iare 100% proven correct in that assumption? (I refuse to accept any other sort of death).

Moash will kill him with the knife used to kill the herald. There will be witnesses. Kal will remain dead for the rest of book 4.

Bonus round:

Kal will be mid uttering the forth ideal.

It will be after a Moash/Kaladin fight which Kal wins but decides to spare or attempt to redeem Moash, not realizing he has the knife.

We need reliable witnesses at least one of is from bridge 4. Im guessing Rock.

Rock then kills the storms out of Moash.

Is Nale ever shown to use (or even carry) spheres to power his lashings?

Grab your tinfoil hats and post your book 4 predictions!

I'll start:

Kaladin "dies"

15 minutes ago, Heir of the Void said:

I think there may be some accuracy to this, but I don't think it's nearly as axiomatic as it is in, say, The Dresden Files, where it's virtually hard-coded. Mistborn have much greater autonomy than virtually any normal human in their world, and Rashek could do basically whatever he wanted for a millennium (and it could have been far longer if he'd ever considered compounding steel as well as gold and atium), with the only concern being that he'd die if Ruin destroyed the world. Accumulating Breaths does not restrict freedom (Returning does, but a case could be made that a Returned is a different person).

It does seem that Intent limits autonomy, as in the case of Shards and Radiant spren, but that's a different animal entirely.

Could it be that the reason Wit is wandering around collecting different types of investiture is to modify the Intent that restricts his freedom? He might be working on the theory that having investiture from all 16 shards might actually provide him with total freedom.

forgive my ignorance but who's the other red head thats caught kal's eye?

Slightly off topic and possibly answered already but...

Does anyone know why we didn't get what probably have been most of a chapter of Kal and Shallan practicing flying in front of a highstorm? I legitimately thought I had missed a chapter.

I feel like it would have been hard to write in a way that they wouldn't get intimate and thus throw the whole triangle to kal. At the very least I'm pretty sure its the only point in the book that they’re alone together. Why omit this!? GAH