Cenanin

Yea. You're right. I don't know. But I don't think we have enough information about the cryptic Hoid grabbed to conclude it was Elhokars spren. 1.) We know that when a KR dies their spren "slumbers" 2.) Elhokar hadn't even said the first ideal of all KR, so had he bonded the cryptic? I guess the cryptic was probably waiting around for Elhokar to say the oath if it is Elhokars spren. I just don't think there is enough info, and something implied to me that the parshendi were looking for something ancient in the palace. Or in the ground below it. Something Moash says. I'll look it up in a bit.

Timbre from what I remember does not speak once during the entire book. "It" only attunes rhythms from what I remember. As for your second paragraph, what? Don't reflect. I've provided specific quotes, and I haven't gotten a single one from either of you to back up your arguments. I'm condescending because while I'm willing to look up the material, someone responding to me isn't even willing to do the same.That strengthens my argument tremendously, and I even stated I'm more than willing to be objective. Which I am. But since you pointed it out, yes. I am being condescending purposefully, but I've given outs. Not arrogant though.

We got more of Kaladin's backstory in Oathbringer which I thought SHOULD have been in WoK. His girlfriend Tannah or whatever her name was? It seemed like Brandon just tried to throw her in there to give Kaladin some kind of experience with women, like it was just a second thought and not really thought out. This is one thing that Brandon seriously needs work on IMO, which is intimate relationships between men and women. They are the weakest part of his writing and character development.

Thought she was a Herald at first, then just another manifestation of KR. Then when she did the Kata, then I realized I should have realized when Adolin saw her hair change.

It's super vague to me. When Veil/Radiant/Shallan is interacting with other people before the wedding and even before the battle, is she just going full schizo and talking like Veil/Radiant/Shallan and alternating between them during sentences, or are there actually 3 of them? This was super confusing and not really clarified.

Oh, okay I remember Ico. Let me find the part. Ico is not an honorspren(pg.925). He is the captain of the ship they travel on before reaching Celebrant, which is before Syl reveals herself to the Honorspren ship and they are taken captive. I read nothing in this chapter that would indicate Ico-They call themselves reachers-has anything to do with Timbre. They are golden in color in shadesmar. Ico has a "deadeyes" imprisoned on his ship, that he comments to Adolin when questioned that it is his father and he doesn't want him wandering off the ship and getting lost. How would the daughter of an honorspren be a comet like blue spren that has knowledge of attuning the rhythms? The actual honorspren captain (Notum) tells Kaladin that the stormfather created only ten honorspren after the recreance. Notums great-grandmother was one of these ten(pg. 1015). Syl was created by Honor. Before honor asked the stormfather to do it. Venli says Timbre is something "new." Thus not a Nahel Spren, and certainly not an honorspren, and probably not a reacher like Ico. I find it highly likely that Timbre is a new type of sentient spren that has something to do with parshendi gemhearts. All the evidence points to it. IMO. If you can find some quotes that prove otherwise I'm more than willing to be objective.

No. It's not the same one that was from Eshonai. "Yes...she'd seen one of those near Eshonai. What was it?" - Venli pg. 578 "If the creatures nearby saw this spren, they would destroy it." - Venli pg. 578 The only time we've seen this blue comet like spren is near voidspren bonded parshendi deaths. I assume the soul in their gemheart learns something from the voidspren inhabiting the gemheart, at least enough to become like the voidspren. Just like other spren became like the honorblades. While the voidspren return to the everstorm normally because they are bound to Odium, the soul-spren would not be bound as Odium had not corrupted these parshendi souls. Earlier.... "Unlike the witless Voidspren you bonded-which resides in your gemheart-my Soul l cannot share its dwelling." - Hariel's soul inhabiting Demid's gemheart pg. 577 The comet like spren has given zero, absolutely zero information to conclude that it is a Nahel Spren whatsoever. It pulses to the Rhythms. One was hiding under the body of Eshonai. Timbre was Demid's soul or the parshendi killed by a boulder(probably refused entry to the ancient one so was killed). The other one that was by Eshonai was Eshonai's soul. There is zero evidence any blue comet like spren was anywhere near Eshonai at anytime. I don't understand how you can come to any other conclusion. Eshonai had bonded a red lightning like spren. Not a blue comet like spren. No spren like that was following Eshonai around in WoR. We know that the "ancient ones" or "fused" are ancient parshendi souls/spirits that were corrupted by Odium. Their souls obviously reside in their gemhearts. This is reinforced by the fact that throughout WoR after Eshonai assumes stormform she can hear "screaming" from deep down. Her soul is in pain because the voidspren is occupying her gemheart with it forcing corrupted rhythms and thoughts on Eshonai. It's even more reinforced by the parshendi thinking they can physically "hear" the rhythms. The rhythms come from their personal soul, even more reinforced by the fact that Timbre communicates in rhythms. Also on the last on page interaction with Venli and Timbre that you told me to read is "What a strange way to treat a failure, She attuned Appreciation any-way. An old rhythm. She loved being able to hear those again at will-she could attune either old or new, and could make her eyes red, except when she drew in Stormlight. Timbre had granted this by capturing the Void-spren within her." - Venli pg. 1196(Last Venli chapter in the book) Eshonai's soul must have done the same thing, as she was having second thoughts. Probably Demid too. Or the other dead Parshendi. I don't understand how anyone could possibly come to any conclusion where Timbre is one of the ten orders of Knight Radiant spren, or the "daughter of Ico." I don't even remember reading about any entity named "Ico," in any of the three books. Could you link the page numbers or something so I could read that? Timbre is either the soul of Demid, or the soul of the other parshendi that was crushed by the rock. The reason Venli can see them is either because she can see into the cognitive realm, or she can hear their rhythms because she was so close to Eshonai AND Demid if Timbre is Demid's soul, if Timbre is the other parshendi soul, then the former would be true. I think the latter is more likely however. Because she has only seen Eshonai and Demids souls. I don't think that the "soul" occupying the gemheart is the same mind/consciousness as the parshendi. But a part of them.

Syl says on the ship that Honorspren are "pieces" of honor. However how "big" of a splinter does it take to create spren powerful enough to be sentient like Syl. I think Gloryspren are just short of being Honorspren. They flowed into Dalinar before he created the perpendicularity, thousands, tens of thousands. I think it has something to do with him becoming Unity. Part of honor from the stormfather, some more from the gloryspren, and a little bit of cultivation. Mostly honor. He ascended, he's now Unity like Sazed is Harmony. Way below Sazed's power level but he holds enough investiture from both shards to have created a new intent. I'm probably wrong but I'm certain the gloryspren had something to do with Dalinar creating the perpendicularity. Syl says "It's Honor's perpendicularity" after tens of thousands of gloryspren flow into Dalinar. It didn't take Honorspren to create the perpendicularity because they are sentient, Dalinar basically picked up a whole lot of honor splinters waiting to be picked up. I think it is a lot like Vin pulling in the mists, but the gloryspren are more investited.

No. One came from Eshonai's body and disappeared. Venli thought that strange. Then the interlude with Demid and the others he is killed by a boulder and she captures the one that came from under the rock that killed Demid. The spren she holds IS Demid before it could be corrupted by Odium and sent to the Everstorm. Like the "Ancient ones", "your ancestors are the leaders", etc. Read the Venli interludes again.

Venli's spren did not come from Eshonai. It came from Venli's partner or whatever.

It has to do with the Gloryspren I am sure. They are probably splinters of Honor. Dalinar did something so glorious in refusing Odium, that the splinters of Honor coalesced into him and he ascended. I think he holds at least most of Honor at this point. Like the stormfather said "How? This never happened before." Because Honor hadn't been splintered until up until somewhere right before or right after the Recreance, so there were no Honor splinters. Basically I'm pretty sure that Dalinar has almost completely reforged Honor and has taken up the shard. Obviously every splinter of Honor aren't going to hold enough investiture to become sentient spren.

I have a problem with this theory. Why couldn't the cryptic just disappear into the cognitive realm? Nothing is keeping him bound to the physical realm. Elhokar literally had not even said the first oath.

From my reading I thought it was implied by Teft AND Kaladin that Rock had bonded an Honor spren. It would also be super easy for him to draw the bow using Lashings. Kaladin could do it as well. Once a bow is drawn it takes less effort to keep it drawn then to draw it. Two lashings down on yourself, a couple lashings on the bow string. Pretty simple. Rock could probably also just hold the bow shaft and lash the string back. Or stick the bow shaft to the ground and lash the string up. I don't think a windrunner would have much trouble drawing a shardbow if one were to get creative. Adhesion+Lashings could do some pretty devastating things just off the top of my head. City destroying things. Lash a big rock up and fly with it, then send it down with 100 lashings. Things like that. Which are clearly possible using the magic system. But Kaladin isn't very imaginative, so the bow could easily be drawn. I think the text with Kaladin and Teft after the battle clearly indicates Rock has bound an Honor spren. Just like Lopen and Teft, and he is certainly at minimum a squire, but probably at least bonded to an Honor spren.