toomsta

Hey @Mandamon, just catching up before I move onto your more recent submission of part 3.

I'm finding myself wading through a lot of names/terms, etc. Maybe I need to read the previous works to be up to speed? Regardless, I just let it wash over me, but I am finding it very dry. In my very humble opinion, I want to know more about the dynamics of the characters involved, their relationships, how they operate, motives etc. If it's going to be a mystery then I want to be invested in the mystery, which I assume is the murder? Right now the murder feels secondary to the Society. 

I'm on the fence I think on this one, though I am getting some "The Name of the Rose" vibes for some reason (just sub religion for science), which is a good thing.

6 hours ago, kais said:

@toomsta sure thing! The first one is on sale right now too, if you get ebook, so bonus! Keep in mind that the one I've been subbing through here is actually a prequel, so the published ones are about 15-20 years after this.

Book one and book two. Book three comes out in June and I don't have any links for it yet. Thank you for reading! I appreciate all feedback, even when short and sweet.

I had to switch to the AU store, but it was still cheap at $4au ... So you have another customer now! 

Hi @kais

I think this is a better version of what you submitted the first time, so well done. I think it's just clearer.

I will say that I zoned out a few times while reading. Maybe because its a tad wordy, maybe not that efficient in it's story telling, or maybe because I didn't sleep all that well and it's coffee time before work - who knows?

I still do not buy the world peace thing, but perhaps I should pickup the previous books and read them? Can you link my lazy behind to where I could acquire them? I would like to try the first at least (I make no promise of finishing it, I am a bit ruthless about what I read). However ... this one line: "That was all over now, though, because peace" is perfect. The because statement is the Lord's gift to us all, and we must embrace it, because pineapples.

Apologies for the short feedback, though honestly I don't think there's much more I can say on this piece that will help you. I'm hoping this coming week I can get back to reading everything and providing some more in depth feedback.

Overall

So the flashback chapter is just inserted as a once off? Hmmm ... I wonder how that will work in the flow of the whole novel?

I think the second half of this is better (see notes below), though it's still not quite clicking for me. Perhaps if I get to read your edited previous chapters that might have changed. I think a we need something established a lot earlier to help build to this chapter and the assassin, so that this chapter feels more like a turning point (end of the beginning so to speak) rather than the first sign of tension/conflict in the story. 

Notes

- Maybe if I knew Quirk better I would get it, but he seems too keen to investigate. Maybe there's more to it that is yet to come?

- I'm going to reflect @kais here, I am not invested enough at this point. Granted the fixes you have made to previous chapters could have fixed that, but the through-line at this point from chapter one is non-existent. More drive, more momentum is needed. I think you've settled into the rhythm of the novel too quickly.

- The whole interrogation feels very forced. Both M. and B. I think I see what you're doing, maybe, but it's not organic. I don't understand B., and to burst into the room and be so aggressive can be fine, but he doesn't pull it off. Especially since the Sheriff seemed more annoyed than outright enraged or aggressive.

- The second half is much better, and I like that we're getting some action. Though, consider it's chapter 5 and we're only now getting to a potential hook. If we can clean up the through-line and get tension building from chapter 1, this can be the first turning point instead of the first bit of tension.

Dang, I was away one week and now I feel like I've missed too much. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to read the backlog! After just one week!

HI @Mandamon. Look, I'm really pressed for time this week, however you have been very gracious with feedback to my work and this is the first chance I've had to read yours. I read this waiting at lunch, away from my computer, so no detailed notes. Hopefully I have more time for the second submission this week.

I am intrigued. Oddly, I have used a similar idea around the "music of the universe" in my own story, somewhat based on the theories of Stephen Hawkins. It always amazes me how ideas that you feel are your own, really aren't. 

One of the earliest reactions the narrator has to the murder is about his own prototype and the rate at which it would now be approved given the death. That came off a tad psychopathic, as does his general demeanour and attitude toward the death. It's rather emotionless. It doesn't help me relate to this character. If this who he is, he needs something else, perhaps playing to his cold reactions a little more would help. I'm also, like the others here, a bit iffy on the secret society and the consequences of being known. It would be good to get a better explanation of that.

Hi @kais, I wanted to try and get a critique in for you since you have been so generous in replying to my work. I've had a crazy week, so I apologise that this may be a little light. Is this a story for yourself? Or are you shopping it around? Are you shopping around the full N- novels, or are they published already? Sorry, catching up a little here.

Overall

I"m still finding some of the mechanics of the story hard to fit together. Like trees being a precious commodity in a universe were space travel is a piece of cake (also the world peace thing too, even with the acknowledgement). However, your story has integrity, in that it doesn't contradict itself and remains consistent. So full credit where it is due. I like Y- a lot more in this second half, though from an emotional perspective I have nothing that ties me to the story. It's still a bunch of stuff that happens getting Y- from point A, to point B, and dangling the "secret" carrot. I assume from what you have said that this is the purpose of the story, so I can't complain, because that's what it does. I still think it needs an emotional hook, but that's up to you in the end.  

As I go:

- iPads?

- Would Y- know what a new paper book smelled like?

- I will reflect @Robinski's note on Lego ... It is minifigure, or minifig (I too am a huge lego fan). I expect everyone, including completely made up characters in worlds that likely do not have or know of Lego, to use the correct term here

- Oh you're describing the spaceport, finally, woo!

- I don't especially like stories where a person does something illegal, and then finds someone who already knows what they did, has covered it up, etc, etc ... It's all just too damnation convenient.It's another version of plot armor in my humble opinion - though I will concede you do a decent job and making it fit within your universe, so, as you were.

- Nice bit about world peace, though it's never explained, at least a character is like "What's up with that?"

- Dangling secrets to a reader can be dangerous, especially when we can't just read the next part (I'm assuming this is a separate short story to the main story and won't have a follow on?)

1 hour ago, Robinski said:

Tarnation! There's nothing new under the sun, as someone once said. Who was that...? <G**gles> Oh, yes, it was God.

A phrase adapted from the Book of Ecclesiastes; the author complains frequently in the book about the monotony of life. The entire passage reads, “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.”

Thanks, toomsta. I'll just write it the best I can and see if I can make mine better!! <clenches fist determinedly, like the infant in all those memes>

Yes it can be done. The Osiris Child actually had a new (if weird) twist on it. I’m sure there’s plenty left to juice out of it.

4 hours ago, Robinski said:

Hmm, can I ask from where? X-files by any chance? I don't say that because it was a conscious inspiration, but I could well be an unconscious one, I have just realised!

Yeah it has a very X-Files feel to it, and Aliens, and Expanse ... and I even watched the Osiris child the other night and guess what? Genetically bred monsters used to clear out the local population of planets ... LOL 

Overall:

I'm struggling to articulate what I think here, I think that means I'm on the fence. It's been a busy week for me, so that may be reflected in my feedback. I got the urge to skip-read early, maybe my patience was low and this was the wrong thing to read?

See my notes, but I'm not sure I like where this is headed plot wise, it feels a little too familiar. E on the other hand started fresh, I dig her, but she doesn't feel complete, I'm not sure I got enough of her to make my mind up. 

Notes:

- A note on what came before, when we leave Q&M in c3 the hook isn't strong enough to then go "9 days earlier" in c4 - just a thought, but I think you could lose readers at this point.

- "assignation", I learnt a new word

- "Blown" I believe is not the correct word for the act, it implies too much that Glenda is a man, and she is clearly not. Unless, she's of an unknown gender type, or something like that (I'm looking at @kais for no reason at all)

- On Page 4, not sure what's going on ... Is that a problem?

- "She felt that jerk in her stomach again. No, it was lower, her gut." technically the stomach is the gut ... Maybe in the pit or stomach? Maybe in her bowels? Maybe even in the rectum? We don't know ... 

- What's with the monster POV?

- Is there a tone issue here? c1-3 is all about art, and elections, and slow drives in the country-side ... Now we're in deep sci-fi territory, almost reminiscent of Aliens, and yeah I'd echo @Mandamon that I see parallels to The Expanse. Maybe it wouldn't be an issue if I'd read previous stories.

- I'd echo @kais on the power femme, lesbian thing. "Daddy issues" could be done, but doing it right would be the key.

- I'd ditch the Jurrasic Park reference, we're starting to get into same same territory with some kind of genetically bred super-alien killing machines. I'm not saying this is bad, butv on the surface here and it looks too similar.

- The ending is interesting, but I'm not sure it's enough. Especially since I didn't feel like E- had a complete introduction, and I don't know what she wants, or where she wanst to go.

3 hours ago, Rogueshar said:

Critiques:
1) I want more explenation of things, I feel like I can't connect to your world yet because I don't know what things are, for example I don't know what Sk*l is. Is it a humanoid creature, is it a class status, what is it exactly, same for A*ch*n.
2) I felt a bit of disconnect as to how I- arrived at the fight. She went out to get food and then suddenly a fight. How did it happen, was she stalked for a while, did they surprise her? 
 

Yes, what do they call it? Grounding the work? Reducing abstraction? Either way, I seem to write like I'm in a hurry. Time to slow down and give people a chance to absorb it all. Thanks @Rogueshar, appreciated the feedback.

On 1/20/2018 at 8:24 PM, Robinski said:

After reading your comments on other things, including your very helpful contribution to my own submission, I'm very interested to read your own stuff. So, without further ado

 

Hey man, thanks for the feedback. I do sense your frustration. I'm not going to comment on the grammar issues, other than to say do you have messenger or something similar? I want to tap your brain, have a back and forth over some of the things you raise.

On 1/20/2018 at 8:24 PM, Robinski said:

 

• He’s in the inn now, I think, and I still don’t know what a Sk*l is. It’s getting frustrating now. Is it another race? An animal? A slave?
• “though his own Sk*l didn’t move” – so the plural of Sk*l is Sk*l.

 

I didn't want to pause and explain Skel, but I also get what you're saying. I think I just have to. And yes, the plural of Skel is Skel, that I believe is proper.

On 1/20/2018 at 8:24 PM, Robinski said:

 

• I’ve got to say when I see the word ‘recreant’ I think ‘replicant’

 

Hmm... I just wanted a cool name for Apostate without religious undertones. 

On 1/20/2018 at 8:24 PM, Robinski said:

 

• “Their leather Armor, over gold tunics” – Why is ‘armor’ capitalised? There’s no reason for it whatever. If it’s supposed to convey that the armor is special, and different from normal armor, then you need to do that here to justify the use of capitals. The only purpose capitalisation of generis words serves is the cause the reader to stop and wonder why it’s capitalised. I feel quite strongly about this, sorry for ranting, but it’s completely unnecessary and pointless, imho. Why not capitalise ‘uniform’ or ‘caster’. It’s a typo, isn’t it? #headslap

 

MS Word made me do it. No seriously, the thing makes me capitalise everything. I need to stop and take charge when I think (know) it's wrong.

On 1/20/2018 at 8:24 PM, Robinski said:

 

• So far, I'm enjoying the girl’s viewpoint considerable more than the other one. Bald’s isn’t bad, but the girl has way more at stake. Also, I'm struggling with her age a bit. Her inner monologue suggests maybe 12/13?
• The anchor scraping the bottom on the sea still has a purpose; it’s trying to anchor the ship. Just because it is not succeeding, doesn’t mean it does not have a purpose.
•  

 

Interesting, the opposite of everyone else. 

I might just need to reword. Her memory has purpose, but the feelings one should have associated with the memory are not taking hold.

On 1/20/2018 at 8:24 PM, Robinski said:

 

• Okay, major issue. Where are all the Sk*ls when the fight between the females is going on? This is classic holiday unreality, where villains attack one at a time. The whole point of superior numbers is to smother the enemy. I must say, this is where I lost patience and stopped reading.

 

I don't want you to lose patience, and I think I am learning why. Will have to try again. That said, this is explained in chapter 3, though from what I can see that will change. I think I just need to be simpler, clearer.

On 1/20/2018 at 8:24 PM, Robinski said:

 

I liked seeing the magic system at work in the fight, but I found the fight too long, and not especially interesting, because I felt little with any of the characters. Putting characters in jeopardy really only works when the reader cares about them, and I don’t know enough about them yet to care.

Sorry not to be more positive.

<R>

 

I'm cool man, be negative all you like. It might hurt for a minute, then I learn and move on. I don't think you're saying anything new that has not already been said (except for maybe 1 or 2 interesting angles). Appreciate it man. You are no doubt helping me improve!

13 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Grammar-checker is the future! Do you use Word?

Yup! It leads me astray at the moment, some of the things you folks point out Word actually told me to do.

18 hours ago, Robinski said:

Thank you, Mr. Pot   Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. Much obliged.

Seriously I do proof read. It's like a disease, only once I hit the send button do I actually see missing words, etc. I seriously need to get better at it.

18 hours ago, Robinski said:

Hey, please don't feel you can't fire at will. Have at it! No offence taken. This is a good point, and I will strike through it and see how I feel next time I read through. I'm just finished Book 6 of The Dresden Files (which I just, love). Jim Butcher does this stuff all the time. It's like a stream of unconscious (actions). Now, he's Jim Butcher, and no doubt can make it work, or doesn't give a r*t's *ss either way. I guess it's more a part of the noir style that he employs, which I'm not really tapping heavily if at all.

Likewise!

The Noir style is very much suited to a slower pace and a certain type of story telling because the stories are usually very simple, and instead work off shady morals and grey areas of interpretation. In those stories you expect introspection, and great detail, because without it, there's really nothing. It also helps to establish the moral compass of the world and its nature, even something as simple as paying for your meal tends to build on those things. 

Granted you aren't doing noir, but you could of gotten away with it if we knew where Q and M were headed and the context up front. 

21 hours ago, Robinski said:

I feel bad about being harsh now!! I've got to say it kind of shows, but, in that short time, you've certainly developed some skill. Don't stop know!

No, be harsh, do not go soft, do not feel bad. One day I’ll submit something and you’ll all just say it’s good. I want to earn that and know that it’s real.

As a short story, and granted it's only half of one, it doesn't quite work for me. I have no investment in Y, nor do I understand any of the pressures on him, or why a new life in the stars is of interest to him. Thinking of my favourite short stories, they all build a very sharp emotional investment really quickly. 

Some notes:

- Wordy first paragraph, not a bad hook though, could be punchier

- "He’d left Poland because %^$# communism," because statements like this are my absolute favourite kind of statement. I use them on a daily basis. Did we just become friends?

- cedar trees? Oh right, this is the crazy universe were trees are a precious commodity? What a universe!

- Yes it's rough, I know you said that, but yeah, @Robinski appears to have covered that. As you were.

- Character is talking to himself, out loud. I'm sorry, but this is a pet-peeve. They do it in movies because verbalising thoughts is awkward (I'm look at you Dune).

- I got the impression Y was already a criminal? He's not? Would like some of his past, how he knows so much about tech, alien tech, etc.

- Instant world peace? Like two-minute noodles? I don't buy that for a second. You know, that guy looked at me funny, but hey, I won't punch him because those Aliens gifted us world peace. This needs a very good explanation.

25 minutes ago, industrialistDragon said:

This is much improved!  Chapter one was good, but could probably stand to be streamlined a little bit. I liked the way the dread built, but then it sort of stagnated after the reveal, with everyone kind of turning in circles going "what should we doooo" over and over. 

 

Again, like the others, thanks you for the kind words.

Agree on all points too. I think if I'm Simpler, character focused, and clearer, I'll fix all the issues you've raised.

Thanks for taking the time

23 minutes ago, kais said:

I dig it, but watch your regional growths. Mahogany wouldn't grow in the same forest types (or climate) as oaks. 

Yeah, alright. Now that I think about it, Bal isn't a tree expert, so he doesn't need to notice all the various types of wood.

Dang, double post - can you delete a post?

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Eh, I'd have to disagree, from experience. Probably not over three days, but there's been many a time when I've sparred at a class in the evening and felt fine until I woke up the next morning and started hobbling around.

Muscle soreness the morning after, perfectly fine. Three days later would mean it's not muscle soreness, it would mean you've actually done damage to ligaments, or pinched a nerve, or something similar.

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This is a really impressive rewrite from what I read last time.

Wow, appreciate the very kind words.

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On chapter two, I was a little confused with what powers the girl has. There's the illusion thing, and the energy bubble thing, and then she can also heal. Plus, Bal in the first chapter only mentions the illusion.

I also thought it a little strange that the girl charges right in to the fight--I also was envisioning her slightly younger, so maybe more character building before will help. Though I will agree with you (and disagree with Kais - gasp!) that a 14 year old trained in fighting can be quite vicious. If you make her training a little clearer it will be more believable.

 

I see the mistake. Next submission will be a rewrite of chapter 2 more focused on the backstory for the girl, reducing the fight to a much simpler encounter.

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pg 1: There are a lot of names in the first paragraph...

pg 2: The prose is good, but I feel like this is jumping around topics I know nothing about, and I'm a little lost.

end of pg 2: I'm starting not to care, because I don't have connection to any of these arrogant folks, and there's some infodump on magic powers.

Yup, will simplify a lot I think in general in future edits. Spend more time on each point and drop as much as I can.

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pg 3: “She doesn’t just cast illusions"
--How does Bal. know that the kid's power is like this? Couldn't it be something they haven't seen before?

I was hoping the conversation around the stones would show Bal's deductions, and his conclusion that he'd seen this once before in the past. I think if I take more time, and focus more on B- and his thoughts this might be clearer.

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pg 6 "she reached in the void and energy free from it."
--seems like something's missing in this sentence.

pg 7: "She popped a hastily placed bubble of energy"
--I'm missing something. I understand the girl has illusions, but not sure what the energy is and how she uses it. 

pg 7: So she has healing powers too? I was on board with illusions, but there's some power creep here. Especially so because I think she could handle the fight with only illusions. It would make it a more exciting challenge.

 

Bal cast illusions, whereas I- makes you hallucinate. I'll spell that out I think. Have you read The Shaodw of What was Lost? The magic system is not too dissimilar to those books. There are casters, who can source energy from a mysterious void (to be explained as part of the story) and can use it like a traditional mage, energy bolts, etc, lighting (aka electricity). Then there's a higher order of mage, those with talents like illusion. I think I'm just overloading up front, so if I simplify and go through give as much time as I can for people to be comfortable with the complexity I hope I'll be alright.

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There is some random capitalization in this.

Yeah my fault, bloody MS Word keeps changing the words to have capitals, and I just run with it.

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I'm still very interested in where this story goes, and looking forward to the next chapter. Great job on the rewrite!

Thank you again for the kind comment. I'm very glad you're interested.

I think I'll leave chapter one, rewrite it way down the track when I'm fresh. I'll rewrite chapter 2 to be much more character focused and resubmit. I think it's important to establish I- properly before continuing with the story.

Thanks @kais. You can probably tell I haven't been writing for all that long, really only two years, and in that time between work and family it's not that much. So getting this kind of feedback is awesome, I really do appreciate it. You've all be so up front about it, and accept my feedback in return, so I have really enjoyed my first few weeks here. 

I'm glad you found chapter one much stronger, really happy about that considering the feedback I got last time. I'm still not happy with it, I will clean it up and change/add a few things at a later time. 

I do hear you about chapter two. I started reading Iron Gold by Pierce Brown today, and instantly I can see how good he is at introducing a new POV character. I'm going to learn from that example and rewrite chapter two with a much greater character focus, spelling out who Ilse is. I think if you have more background on Ilse things will make more sense, though I should probably tone down some of the elements that turned you off.

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- page one: +1 for good wood choice for a bar top. If it were me I'd have gone with a white oak, but white oak has better uses, such as whiskey barrels, so I assume red oak was what was left over. I approve of this world and it's well thought out use of oaken materials

- page three: common wood names aren't proper nouns but oh my god are we going to have a conversation about wood species? I am right here.

 

Hopefully you'll enjoy this place then. I want to keep going back to it. The concept is that the inn was built by foreign sailors, and they did it by bringing their own piece of home. Hence all the different woods. In terms of using the common wood names, what do you suggest I do? I'm all ears to the correct way to write this.

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 page four: why is the design more fierce on the women? Is this a breast allusion? It feels awkwardly male gaze, but also confusing, like maybe I'm not getting some joke

Just chalk this up to some clumsy writing. Bladr is big, he equates fierce with big, he's impressed that the leatherwork can make a smaller person look fierce - that's all. I'll rewrite.

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page five: allusion to rape needs a warning in your sub, please. Not a fan, and it doesn't really serve a purpose here. Why not just burn the mother, too?

Yeah, wow, had no idea that could be an allusion to rape. She was literally broken, as in broken bones. Will fix. You'll get a flashback to what happened about chapter 5.

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 page seven: this is a girl who is delighting in the idea of charging a man twice her size, after already being cracked on the side of the head? This just doesn't ring realistic for me. From the way she was described earlier on, I got the feeling that she was twelve, maybe thirteen. There's a whole lot of sore and awkward going on with a thirteen year old girl, and this sort of battle lust just seems... out of place, unless you do some more build up and backstory

Hear you loud and clear. I'll give you her background so that when she does what she does here hopefully it makes sense and feels natural for her.

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page eight: So chapter one spent a decent amount of time building sympathy and tension around this girl who was about to get arrested, but the way she is fighting and acting in chapter two makes me view her as the villain. I don't know if this is what you are going for, but it kills the tension for me. She also seems to have aged up a lot in these two pages

She's meant to be fourteen, you've never seen a fourteen year old girl who has been trained from a young age fight? It's pretty shocking how good they can be.

I'm really happy to hear chapter one worked mostly, so I think if I spend the time to make you more intimate with Ilse, it will make more sense. Though I suspect I'll have to tone some of it down.

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 the drowning doesn't really build any tension as a chapter end, because I don't care about this girl anymore.

I'm hoping with the backstory I won't have to change this. But I can see my mistake. I was too focused on what happens and why, without caring enough about the character themselves.

Overall

There is a little sense of "meh" here, in terms of plotting and momentum. Coming off a slower chapter, most of chapter 3 is in that same mould. I agree with @kais, we need more background, info on the client, something that makes us feel the tension when they see the fire. So we get a sense of dread, building tension. It's still well written, and enjoyable, but I got the itch to start skipping parts to get to "the good stuff"

Notes as I go:

- No, delayed onset muscle soreness is not a thing

- "Mephistophelian", there's those big words again

- Some missing words here and there... "Less likely aggravate" has a missing "to" for example

- If it was me, I'd edit out the mundane things like Q- paying for breakfast. IMHO an unnecessary sentence. Of course, this isn't me, so as you were and all that. (unless you agree)

- describing the drive, what Q- see's, etc, with the backdrop of an election is great, but those elements, and the atmosphere created better play a part later on ... 

- M- sum's up my feelings on the drive nicely I think

- heh ... VAG ... I'd rethink that one

12 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Lol. There's a trend (from Book 1) of social-media being given unprepossessing pseudonyms, like: Fameb**k, (a rude word like Twitter, but with an 'a' in it)*, and Insta-grin. It's not really supposed to be a plausible alternative, just plain old satire  

 

*(Apologies, oh great and powerful Admin One, please forgive this puny human for his earlier transgression, which was not intended to be malicious.)

Carry on then good sir, carry on

Welcome!

Overall

Look this needs a lot of work, but don't be discouraged. I can see the effort you have put in, and I can see what you're trying to do, it's just all in the execution. Something that you're only going to get good at if you keep trying. Just like the rest of us. I think the concept is fine, just fine, but work on the things folks have raised here, it's going to make it much better.

Notes as I go:

- There's some unnecessarily flowery language - don't worry I do the same thing. Like the very first sentence. Too many adjectives, and confusing ones, not ones that paint a vivid picture. I suggest reading your favourite authors in detail to see how they deal with such things.

- "Lusty curves" ... no, don't do this... But don't worry too much, everyone chided me for making very bad fat jokes and being a tad racist.

- So the narrator talks about himself in the third person? What the? 

- "Dude"? Language needs to suit the tone of the story, and this doesn't feel like the right tone for "Dude". That and modern language often doesn't work in this kind of fantasy setting.

- The reveal they are playing D&D doesn't work. It's confusing in terms of voice, tone, and perspective. I suggest you commit 100% to the fantasy up front, then have a cut off point where it's clear we're in reality. Think the beginning of Toy Story 3.

- I don't mind the banter between the friends, but it needs work, just a tad messy. Need some work on what's actually going on, who these people are, and what their relationship is, then the banter will feel much better.

- If you're going to do science, genetics etc, you need to get it right - or establish that this is fantasy and you're making up the rules. Otherwise, I'd rethink the entire science angle.