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Well, at the point that she decided that she lacked faith in herself, Veil and Radiant didn't exist as separate personalities but were a part of her. So she probably believes that neither of her personalities is capable of making the right choice. That's why she decided that Veil had a bad taste in men. She was fine when Veil was set on Kaladin and Radiant on Adolin, because that kept her from reaching a decision.

Can we take a moment and consider that Shallan might have decided to get married because Radiant changed her mind about Kalladin? Shallan accepted her betrothal gladly in WOR because she lacked faith in herself making the choice since the first man she chose was an ardent and an assassin. She didn't decide on getting married to Adolin when she got betrothed, she decided after the Battle of Thaylen Field. And it's not the fact that Adolin proved that "he knows her" that gave her determination. Because right after that discussion she is still seems entranced seeing Kaladin, even Pattern gets confused. And that's exactly the point where Radiant changes her mind.

I wanted to vote 2. The battle of the Tower and the Kholinar Palace. Both of them had heart crushing moments and that's why they felt all the more real to me.

Hi @Prelude I am here for the exact same reason. As you will notice from a lot of people voicing themselves here, we are going through the five stages of grief...

Yes, I've noticed that part of the interview as well let me quote it below: This answer actually gave me hope, because it shows that he is aware that developing female characters is a challenge for him. He is aware of the bias he can fall into and he is actively tackling that part of his writing. Vin is exactly a proof of that. @SLNC I am sure it must have been a very hard and consuming process but I am happy that it has been resolved for you. It feels good to hear people overcoming depression. It is an underestimated disorder.

I'm sorry you have gone through such hardship in your life and I can see how this topic does hit hard on you on a personal level. I need to let you know that you are not alone. A lot of people are going through the same things you do, maybe not in the exact same way, but depression is hardly uncommon.

Thanks for the link! This interview gives a lot of insight of how Sanderson works and develops his work. I find it amazingly interesting! I'm using another answer in this post below. YES! From the moment that I read Shallan and Dalinar combining their powers to make... well, just a map :| I instantly got the secret hope that we would see Kaladin spear fighting airborne, while doing Shadow Clone technique! But. Well. That didn't happen. (yet?) Thank you for expressing thoughts that I couldn't find a way to express. I can see how people falsely link the two "female characters linked into a love triangle" but I find these two completely two separate cases. Kaladin is nothing like Zane and Vin in nothing like Shallan. Considering we have a different set of characters types I cannot see how the two are related. I am a reader that also loves super strong female characters and Vin was mainly the reason I read the Mistborn books. Even if Shallan isn't as powerful as Vin, I love her complexity and ingenuity in her personality, but in Sanderson's creativity as well. At least I did love her in the first two books. Here, in OB, I am at a loss... I have no idea what happened to her. This split personality development and the swift marriage as a conclusion disappoint me very much. SLNC posted a link earlier and I've found the below on the same page. Considering Sanderson's years of experience, creating Shallan would appear as a challenge and interesting way for him to evolve as an author. I was hoping for Shallan to surpass Vin but this answer right here makes me heartbreaking doubt that is the case.

You say " I would want everyone to feel welcome to love what they love." but then "I get bothered (and if I'm being really honest, upset) that it doesn't get left at that." You are contradicting yourself. But don't get me wrong @Greywatch I understand you. There is a nagging feeling that something is left unresolved. And we are all bothered and upset (maybe a little disturbed?) in here about it. Otherwise, we wouldn't have made this thread so heated in the first place. But that's just it. It's a discussion thread. We are here to point out our opinion, bringing arguments and express our feelings. Logical arguments help, accusing people being disingenuous doesn't and certainly dismissing arguments as plain "shipping" is disrespectful. It's not just about wanting/supporting two individuals involved in a romantic relationship. It's not an irrational "want", the author clearly made this triangle obvious in the books and a lot of us are bothered (and if we're being really honest, upset) as to why he would do this in the first place. So... How I personally rationalize the fact that "Sanderson placed this love triangle in the SA" would be either and/or one of these cases: (a) he did this to boost sales without regarding proper character development. (b) It happened unintentionally on his part, as the character development grew astray from the chasm scene onward. Then he tried to tie it up with a marriage conclusion in OB. (c) he places this intentionally as a character development point for Shallan only and the marriage is a conclusion in stability (or instability) for her. (d) it happened intentionally as a story development point where we will see characters evolving throughout the rest books and possibly coming back to this at some point.

Yep, pretty much, that's the dreadful scenario I'm preparing myself for and let's not forget that since Jasnah is currently inheriting the throne... Still got roughly 2 years, maybe I'll be able to accept it by then.

Navani was actually 16 when she had Jasnah

Thanks to both of you @SLNC @PhineasGage for the correct references. 17-18 is *phew* way too young, even 20 was stretching it for motherhood really, but I can't help feeling even more disappointed at this moment.

Yes, I understand as much, and it will create a lot of drama and conflict but I thought that is the point of the books. Just because it's scary doesn't mean that it cannot happen. She is 20 according to this chronology. It's okay to get married but not okay to have kids? What's the point of marriage then?

Why?

@PhineasGage I'd love to read your work on this, at this point I could say I am going through an obsessive phase. #thehypeisreal Now about the potential future motherhood, I do not believe it to be a solution either, but simply a natural turn of events. They are getting married after all and they are not teenagers. Dalinar and Evi went through a problematic marriage (understatement, considering it ended in holocaust), but surprisingly the children didn't turn out psychopaths, yet. I could see Shallan fragmenting into a further motherhood persona and yes, it could get really unpleasant. @SLNC With all the Shallan-Kaladin hints in Oathbreaker I actually thought that the gut wound could turn out tragically fatal for Adolin, getting rid of the loose end, "oh what a shame he dies a hero" kind of thing. But maybe it was wishful thinking into the easy way out of the painful love triangle. @Arch If I let that dark imagination rampage into the Stormlight "depressing backstory" Archive I can only see going into a failed marriage, unraveling family secrets and lies, trauma resurfacing about Evi's loss, maybe a little Odium seasoning and turning over to the dark side *cough* like a dark knight *cough*

I believe that "without you I fade" is exactly proving the point that she knows that Adolin is the anchor that keeps this new illusion of herself from fading (like her newly acquired power of attaching illusions to spheres?). At the same time it proves that their relationship is build upon immature notions, sweet words and cheesy clichés of what appears to be a "normal happy relationship". Their relationship feels like a fleeting adolescent wish that gets serious abnormally fast. The fact that just looking at Kaladin threatened this relationship, is also proof of how shallow it all is. I am with you on this, I do not think blind acceptance is helping here and she wrongly interprets Wit's advice. Adolin is enabling her further to escape through lying instead of facing the truth head on. If she wants to grow as a person and as a Knight's Radiant she will have to accept the truth behind the lies. It's part of the Lightweaver's ideals. This could potentially be how the character evolves later on, although I fear of what marriage and a possible pregnancy could turn this into a series of dark events. Like Dalinar's Third Ideal: And later when he thinks back on his actions: Thank you for welcoming me, this thread is all I know at this point. Hopefully I'll find the strength to move on into other discussions... I didn't think either Adolin or Kaladin were Sterling or Vadam in the quote, but I mearly wanted to note how Sanderson is indeed trolling us here. He is aware how love triangles are treated within books and I am hopeful that he has a greater plan for all of this instead of leading us on into tropes. I think we are still early on in the story and it is still vague enough that he can fix it on either path, or maybe both eventually. Surely if it takes him 2 and a half years to publish each book and he plans on a total on ten, this will expand into a 25year epic that could be his life achievement. Expectations are high. #nopressure (in case he is actually watching this thread)

This thread has kept me company for the whole day today (yes, I've read almost all of it) after I've binge-read Oathbringer for the last two days (no, I don't have a life anymore). I hate to rehash everything said in this thread but please try and take this as a thank you to all of you taking part in it. <3 You have all helped me rationalize a lot of the hurt/disappointment how these three have evolved. You have all proven that it wasn't all in my head. Throughout the book I felt that I've been toyed by Sanderson into believing that Shallan - Kaladin could actually happen, even if I had mentally chastised and prepared myself beforehand that Shallan - Adolin made a lot more sense as an actual relationship, before starting the book. I kept saying "Love triangles are a cheap way to keep people interested and I refuse to fall for it Brandon!" But it was a carefully planned set-up. I think that Sanderson has made an outstanding, complex and interesting character development, devoting the first book on Kaladin and the second book on Shallan. I fell in love with them. From there it's easy to make the logical fallacy that they should fall for each other. It has made me feel that no other character than each other could carry them on an equal terms relationship. But as an uncle of mine told me years ago "Two troubled people are bad for each other" ... And although examples in real life have showed me that this is probably true, I just wish it so much that, it would be wrong in this case.( yes, at this point I believe these two as alive individuals, that real life relationship dynamics apply for them.) So I understand how we got here. Adolin is extremely lovable, understanding, simple and focused on her. Even if this relationship is unfair to him, it is important for the future of Roshar, for Shallan to find an emotionally stable pillar of understanding and love. Kaladin is too honorable to wedge himself in between a betrothal and at the same time too preoccupied with his own failures to actually seize the infinitely minimal interaction time he has with her, to achieve a meaningful connection. And Shallan, poor Shallan is making huge falls backwards in this whole book. It hurts seeing her breaking up into these personalities. It feels like he is further sinking into a lie after lie, to the point that we, as readers, can't even tell what part of her is real. Why is this happening? When did it start? Stress from the Ghostbloods? Pressure of being a successful Knights Radiant? The lifelong yearning desire to be 'normally happy' ? (am I projecting?) Even Wit/Hoid sees this and risks an attempt to make her realize what is happening to her. Nevertheless, I think as foreshadowing as Sanderson has been with these relationships, he has been just as much foreshadowing as to how we, as readers, would accept it.