sylian

I kind of get the feeling some of you are underestimating Adolin. The guy has been trained from early childhood to be at least a general. I think he doesn't shine bright only because his father is still around and doing the leading business. Adolin being completely at ease with Kaladin after Kholinar is something that speaks to me about not only knowledge but experience. He is the one that stands when everybody is backing down. I think he is quite brilliant in his role. What I don't like in him now and I think he'll have to deal with is his lack of confidence that he can be of use with all those flying people around.

Thank you! It looks like I started getting too confused. Time for a reread maybe

Do we know who is Mraize's babsk? I saw it mentioned, but I couldn't figure it out.

What I am wondering is where is this understanding that the KR will destroy the planet in the visions? Where is the intent taking over the personality? The main message in the visions is "unite them", nothing about oaths. What I see in the visions doesn't align with what evidence we get about honor in his last days. Am I missing it? And also, where are the shardblades and plates now? There were hundreds left, but they seem to be very very rare nowadays.

Mmm, no...I have the feeling it is said in more bright manner. Right after that he thinks he "coudn't be bitter" and a few moments later he shows the interesting stone to Syl. Of course, this is just how I perceive the scene, so I might be very very wrong. I just feel it like Kal has found out he will be fine on his own without Tien and without Shallan.

Dalinar seeing the Recreance in a vision means either one of the following: Honor has lived after the Recreance and the visions are prepared at a later point; or Honor has not lived after the Recreance and the vision is what he imagined might happen and it actually was nothing like it. I like option one because it implies that Honor was really crazy when he prepared the visions and I would like to investigate them for evidence. Or he gained his sanity back just right before dying, made visions, dead. Also I reread the vision and it is interesting enough that the Radiants manifested surges right before giving up the blades and armours - so this implies them willingly breaking the bonds, not like Kal accidentally almost killed Syl, more like what Patterns suggests to Shallan - "you can kill me". Also one big question, where are these hundreds of weapons and armours, there is like 300 and Dalinar thinks he knows about like 20-30.

Actually I think the ending of the "triangle" is a big character development for Kaladin. I think he is the "big winner" in this situation, it just is very subtle. He finally realizes he is the one who should be doing to himself what Tien and after that Shallan were doing - brightening him up. Syl telling Kaladin "You'll be all right" and his answer - "I always am" is a big revelation on his part that in the end, everything will be alright. I actually have been in this situation once: after a very painful breakup there was a moment for realization - "this is good for me and this is the path I am going to take and everything will be fine". I have the feeling that Shallan was kind of distraction for Kal on his inner development - she is providing him with support which actually should be something coming from him. So yes, I was a Shalladin shipper but I am really relieved it happened this way. And I also hope that things will go fine for Adolin. I have this very strange understanding for the Alethi mariages that actually they are working team, not a couple most of the times. The husband goes to war, the wife communicates, organizes, leads. So I think that Shallan and Adolin could split duties and just make it work, at least for a time.

A few things just don't match. Dalinar saw the recreance in a vision, so honor lived after the recreance and created the vision after, when, based on evidence, was pretty crazy. I don't remember anything at the visions hinting a crazy and lunatic god. Also, the radiants were fighting someone. Who was that someone and what happened with them? And the thing that I least believe is that the radiants killed their spren more or less willingly. I can see kaladin forced to choose between the world and syl and I know he will be "let them burn".

I have seen the analogy the very same way, it just doesn't fit the other way around. And I don't have any issues with seeing Shallan and Kaladin find each other after, lets say, 10-15 years when both of them are much more mature and hopefully dealt with their issues. However I don't have the feeing that Shallan will be able to deal with her issues at all. I am more inclined to think that she might at some point sacrifice herself for the greater good with or without achieving inner peace.

Hi everyone! This is my first post here and let me say you have the most amazing community. The 17th shard opened my eyes for so much things in the books that I have totally missed. Also, I would like to appologize for any mistakes I make as English is not my native language. So, that said, I have this wild theory of mine....it may be completely foolish as my knowledge of the cosmere is really shallow, it seems. But here is what I think happened with the Recreance... So the radiants figure out the humanity destroyed their planet and after been given some nice land on Roshar they go and invade all of it. Honor is in a pretty bad shape and maybe says something like "never mind, don't think about it, you have sworn to protect humanity, go and kill some Listeners.." Then the Skybreakers go like "you crazy fool, we are invaders, this is wrong, we think the Listeners should kill all humans available and we will not stop them from this. So long and thanks for all the fish". And puff, they fly in the sky and go somewhere else. I like to think they might go to the Shin land as this was the only place given to humanity. However, the rest of the Radiants are like "well, we have sworn to protect humanity, we can't simply leave them. And Honor says who cares what happened initially, he may be crazy and dying but he knows his stuff. But, we can't continue fighting, vaporizing second planet in a row would be a Very Bad Thing. We would rather go home and cut stone with our fancy swords and make houses" I personally can't imagine Kaladin doing anything to kill Syl, I can imagine him to destroy the entire planet for her well being. I don't think he is unique in this so really the Radiants killing their spren seems unimaginable. However, going somewhere to quietly live happily ever after seems pretty legid to me. Except for those who have no land to go - what happened to their home, anyway? But, there is one big issue with this happily ever after plan - the listeners keep fighting, at least most of them - I think the ones that are found on the Shattered Plains were deserters, I can remember something about abandoning their gods. So what to do. I really think they saw one option here - Kill Them All and put an end. But the night presented a different solution...related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths. (I don't have the book in front of me to give you exact quotes, sorry). I think the Bondsmith here is the Third One we know nothing about. And also, this solution might have some nasty side effects. Pretty obvious to me, the solution is to do something to the listeners to stop them from bonding with spren and turn them to parshmen as we see them now. What a good idea. I don't think the side effects are the parshmen having less consciousness than a dog. I think this was part of the point, or at least no one would complain - better robot slave than dead, right. So in the morning, a field full of listeners and knights killing each other, the Bondsmith Does His Thing and as a result, we have a field full of parshmen. Stop fighting, go doing whatever you like. Yay! Except the side effects which I think were destroying all of the Nahel bonds around and killing every one of the spren. Therefore - the Recreance. I think this had quite a regional effect as we have the Skybreakers and we have the Listeners from the SP. I might be completely wrong but I like the theory because: it aligns with Dalinar vision about the Recreance - they were fighting( with whom? - the listeners) and then they came and left the dead spren, no more listeners also; the skybreakers are still around but work for Odium now; the third bondsmith is nowhere around and has suffered enough - it even makes sense that the third bondsmith is not dead like the rest of the spren bonded at that time because he/she is the one that has done it. Or maybe IS dead? Wow, what a long first post. Thank you for reading and please let me know if you think this is too wild guess on my side.