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GarnetandBlack

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Everything posted by GarnetandBlack

  1. All fine points being made here. That said, in my mind it seems that the future sight is still being provided by Odium and no one else - it's just that his sight is at the best heavily flawed and, at the worst extremely susceptible to influence from the other shards. Your first point, however, isn't really related to any vision of the future (corrupted or otherwise) that Odium provided. This is just his plan unraveling because of Cultivation's (and Honor's?) schemes. It is definitely evidence that Odium's ability to see the outcome of his plans - his future - is heavily dependent on things going perfectly for him. I agree that Cultivation clearly had a hand in providing Dalinar the ability to withstand Odium's corruption, but not through any specific vision of the future - no. Indeed, Cultivation's plan hinged all on showing Dalinar the past. Point two, again, seems to be more that Odium's "future" didn't go as he planned. Due, in this case, mostly to heroics the of Dalinar (and thus Cultivation's scheming). It still seems clear that, if this vision was of Odium (and I believe that it was), and if it had gone according to plan, this would have been a big win for him. Point three could definitely indicate Cultivation directly touching the Diagram. Still, I lean more towards this part of the diagram being schemed against perfectly by Cultivation rather than Cultivation actively providing this part of the diagram knowing that the attack would cause Teft to speak the words. Odium actively went into Urithiru believing it to be relatively unguarded. His "future" did not account for Teft becoming radiant at that precise moment. It is definitely open to debate, but again, I'm not sure I see evidence of anyone other than Odium providing visions of the future. It is just that Odium's version of the "future" incorporates only the outcome of his plans. It doesn't (and probably can't) account for another shard actively acting against his interests. I think we're essentially making the same points. Odium looked into the future and planned accordingly, but his plan was derailed by Cultivation's masterful plays. To be clear, I'm not saying that the other shards can't see into the future, I'm just saying that they don't share their views with others. They simply make plans to exploit the cracks in what odium is planning. With that, In my opinion, it still holds true that any vision of the future is, as they say, "of the enemy".
  2. Agreed. They're probably not even readily visible. Spren don't have to breath, so they can be right down in the beads where you wouldn't see them. I think the implication is that they're everywhere down there - with some clearly being much bigger than others. I have some thoughts on this and the type of spren that live "above the beads", so to speak, but it isn't really relevant to this thread. As for the future being of the enemy: I think the diagram is a good example for this statement. It's basically made of death rattles from an unmade and some clear influence from Odium - and it definitely leads that group to do some pretty evil things. The Nightwatcher's influence is tied up in this somehow though. Maybe she's got a surprise baked into Taravangian's diagram that will throw Odium's plans off the rails. Hopefully so. I think it is different with Honor and Cultivation being able to see into the future as well. They may be able to see, but they don't share what they see. Only Odium shares his own twisted version. Therefore, if someone is claiming to see the future on Roshar, it is of the enemy. Another example would be Kaladin seeing that Dalinar was in danger. To me, that seemed like a clear trap set by Odium. Herd them to a place where they can't go back and the way forward is blocked by hordes of evil spren and fused... it almost killed all of them, actually - they were just able to survive long enough for Dalinar to do his thing (which Odium clearly didn't account for). There's more examples, but yeah. I firmly believe if someone on Roshar who isn't a shard (or Hoid, I guess - not certain on this one yet) says they can see the future, they're pretty clearly being manipulated by Odium.
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