Info_Drone-0451

I certainly hope so. Especially the bolded part needs to happen. Yeah, it would be. Honestly bittersweet isn't that bad, although it annoys me at times, as just simple sweetness can be quite dull in my opinion. And who knows what happens after the suicide mission, especially if they reach their 4th ideals...

I, too, want to be believe that it's all intentional but I can't for the life of me stop thinking that BS might have just made a mistake this time and that I should just accept it and move on. Which I simply cannot do, since I'm a fan so I kinda have to point out everything I both like and dislike with the hope that it's fixed. I have more to say on the matter of being a fan but that's neither the point of this thread and I'm afraid that I'll come across as unfair, harsh and presumptuous so I won't publically share my thoughts on this. (PM me if you'd like to hear more). I hope it's just Kaladin trying, and potentialy failing, to handle his feelings as to avoid future jealousy ( a very negative emotion when directed to friends) and misery, but it just might be a quick way to "kill" the plotline in a presumably satisfying manner (says my pessimistic part).

Hello, everyone! I'm glad to be rejoining the discussion. I see that we've confortably passed 1000 replies! Wonderful! So here's what I, currently, take issue with. If the whole triangle what set up as a character development through her choice for Shallan, why enter Kaladin's feelings into it? If she had to make a coice regarding which person was "good" for her and that choice had to always be from the beginning Adolin, because without him she "fades" (I still almost vomit in my mouth when thinking of that line), what was the reasoning for Kaladin to have romantic feelings for her? If he was to vaguely associate her with his brother, so therefore he doesn't really love her (which as a sentiment and phrasing makes absolutely no sense to me), why not have it be like that from the beginning? Why not have something like: "Hey, that lighteyes reminds me somewhat of Tien. I have brotherly feelings toward her and I want to protect her. That's storming strange but I want to protect a lighteyes. Maybe I'm too prejudiced towards them and some are good"? I know that I'm not much of a writter but wouldn't that be a better plot for Kaladin to get through one of his issues? Shallan could still lust after him but in the end she could decide that he isn't for her, since it's just passion from her and he doesn't see her like that. I'd be more that fine with that. Instead what we get is the beginnings of a romantic plot that gets killed within a couple of pages with the weakest of reasoning from all sides and feels like a complete mishandling of all characters involved, while being written in a very archetypal and uninteresting manner ("Without you I fade" *blergh*). Another thing I want to address is that I'm fine with an author intentionally misdirecting me (i.e. the big Mistborn misdirection), but that feels more like deceiving and toying with me. I feel I got teased by promises made with the intention to never be followed through, or at least have a conclusion that hangs together believably which might have disappointed me but I could get behind it in time.

Do they have a reputation or am I missing something? I though Bavland was like this semi-autonomous region in Jah Keved where people speak a Scottish accent of the equilevant of accented Veden, judging by the the Graphic Audio audiobooks. I just think it'd be interesting to have a Bav as I think we haven't seen much of them and they kinda stand out from the rest of the Veden.

I like it. Not sure about the order, but it could lead to some interesting scenes and discussions. Well, what if she's better than him in completely different way of fighting? Like, perhaps, archery while being less skilled in melee combat? I just want to see a Shardbow and how it works. Oh, and as we're getting our wishes out, can she be from Bavland, as well? From what I understand it like Roshar's version of Scotland, which sounds like something I'd want to see..

Well that'd be more like ASK 6. ASK: Episode I: The Phantom Ship ASK: Episode II: Attack of the Ship ASK: Episode III: Revenge of the Ship Bridge Four: An ASK story ASK: Episode IV: A New Ship ASK: Episode V: The Ship strikes back ASK: Episode VI: Return of the Ship ASK: Episode VII: The Ship Awakens ASK: Episode VIII: The Last Ship Please save me from my self!

If we're still picking roles can I be quartermaster? I believe I'd be half-decent at keeping the boooks and supplying the ship. Also, what kind of ship is it? Old sailing with a mast, steamboat, or modern cruiseliner? I vote for old-timey sailing. Also if you put me in a boat give me a big hat and a bucket... I believe you can understand why...

By the Almighty I love this thread so much! But I, uh..., didn't mean anything by it, I was trying to be funny... I should've guessed that somebody had already touched on it on a more serious note. As for the theory, I don't know... haven't considered it much, but maybe I will..

Hey here's a funny thought I had while re-reading the interlude with the romantic ardent. It involves this passage. So what do you guys think are the chances that Radiant falls for Jasnah? Purely hypothetical, just a funny thought I had and thought to share it to lighten the mood.

Sorry, but I don't get that... You were a Shalladin shipper this book turned you into a Shadolin shipper and at the same time you don't want to deal with this? Not necessarily, in the past he was hesitant to include LBGT characters but that isn't the case anymore (i.e. Drehy). He covered the truth about him murdering Sadeas throughout the book. That isn't honorable, I'm sorry but it's not. Whether it was the right move to is another matter. If it was never to take off why include it in general? Would'n it be better for Adolin's and Kaladin's possible relationship to not have this point of possible friction? Look as @FuzzyWordsmith said I could go sentence by sentence and tell you what I disagree with you, but all the points you made have mentioned alreary a billion times and found wanting. What I'll say though is that you are receiving everything at face value, which is fine, and you're stating what's obvious from the text, but in a literary work you have to look what's behind it. You say you have read this thread and yet you don't even try to tell us why you think we're wrong, you just say everyone is, everything is resolved, because Shallan and Adolin got their happily ever after and it's magiacal and cute and that'll fix all. Now I'm not saying you're wrong, or that we aren't over- analyzing things, and what you say might be what actually happens, depsite all the hints to the contrary, but if this is true then I'm sorry but for me it'll be badly written and ploted, and will definitely diminish my enjoyment. Anyway, welcome and thanks for joining. I hope I wasn't all that harsh, as to turn you away and if you somehow feel offended I apologize. Also, what @DeployParachute said which I just saw and very much agree with. He put much more meticulously that me and in more depth.

I made a parallelism on it a few days ago and I mentioned that I don't think the characters have much in common, if anything, just that I found a lot of similarities between the two situations and the difference in the handling of the two situations were jolting, at least to me, as I don't just see it as different handling, but as poor handling, in my opinion and for the time being if it remains as it is. But I digress, the fact that we're talking about different characters within different books probably accounts for all that. Completely agree. Another thing that worries me is that outside of this thread, noboby seems to be the least bit troubled, and instead we seem to be the curmudgeons who don't want Shallan and Adolin to be happry, so we ascribe meaning where there's none. I am not worried that they may be right, although I did at some point before this post got so huge, just that our worries will be dismissed or ignored as such. But,as I've said, I have to hope that feedback is received from various sources and at an objective basis.

Here's something that I use to cheer my self up, and I hope it helps you guys as well. We're posting on the Spoiler board for the latest book release, in the forum of the official fansite. Not only that, but we are currently very big and very noisy. We, certainly, cannot be ignored and I hope we cannot be dismissed, as no matter where we fall with our preferences, and actually the fact that they're so varied is a good thing, all this analysis cannot be dismissed as to having no merit. It's simply impossible, unless it's purposefully done in which case we can't do anything. Our concerns and doubts are well supported by arguments that I think no amount of confirmation bias, on our part, could manifest. We're going strong for 10 days now and instead of this thread getting buried more and more people are joining us. I have to hope that we're heard. I have to hope that feedback is received on a odjective basis. I know this all may sound as hammy, hopeful platitudes but it helps me. I hope it does the trick for you as well.

I really want to believe it's this [(d)] but not an insignificant part of me thinks it is a combination of (b)+(c). That's the part who wants to avoid future disappointment and dissatisfaction. I wont' even consider (a), because that doesn't really sound like BS.

That sounds good but there might be some issues with that. this thread has gotten so huge that it would be a nightmare to shift through, but we can get around that by each submitting points that theu feel should be included who's going to write it? It seems like quite a big task, but let's say that somebody volunteers (I'm afraid I can't, not only due to time constraints but, also, because English isn't my native and I wouldn't want to mess it up) I feel sending a huge essay to BS might be too forward, not to mention it might get lost within the rest of the feedback he must be receiving right now. He's also a busy man, would he have time to read a huge wall of text? would it actually have an effect? Aren't the books planned and isn't he set on writting the story he feels is better, and rightly so? Your suggestion is a good one but there are a lot of issues that need solving, but if we can manage to work them out I say go for it. Ultimately, I think the best we can do is spread our concerns and doudts and do not let ourselves become dissuaded by negativity regarding our opinions, while being repectful and mindful of other people's views.

I get what you're saying but it still bothers me. I wasn't implying that arranged marriages are bad, I haven't formed an opinion on the matter, I'm just irritated that another arranged marriage works in a BS book, it's rapidly becoming dull for me(if it hasn't already become), and that this one seems to be railroaded to success from the beggining. Concerning her experience with Kabsal, it feels that afterwards she's given an easy way out, like she failed once and she no longer needs to be concerned with the matter of romance because it's settled by someone else and it's all sunshine and rainbows from there. It's especially jarring, to me, after her saying "“I’d decided I couldn’t do it, but you convinced me that truth was not as simple as I thought it. You’ve opened a box full of storms in me. I made a mistake. I’ll make more." in a way that implied she wanted the adventure and experience but she immediately agrees to be beholden to somone else, as expressed by Jasnah who also seemed surprised by her reaction. I guess this might be one of the cases we have to agree to disagree(which I hate as a conversation ender but I find it a fine sentiment, after all we can't be expected to agree on anything or to change each other's views all the time, that'd be boring) I think the "assuredness movement" is brought up in the Way of Kings when Jasnah sets Shallan to studying her father's murder and right before they first converse regarding her wit. Well, I hope so. Because it's a win-win situation. He gets a good laugh and we have our feedback and concerns heard instead of dismissed and ignored as merely "shipping"

Don't forget getting to fight Odium's Champion in the end, and presumably winning, since, you know, he is the ranking dueling champion, his lifelong dream which he fulfilled last book. But I guess we shouldn't be too hard on Adolin for being such a cardboard cut-out dipped in vanilla and the poster-boy for perfection. Being too perfect, although dull, isn't a bad thing, but it makes for a boring character, at least to me because some people like that sort of thing(and that's fine as well). Just to be fair, he grew on me a bit in this last book. I bet I'd like him more if he weren't such plot device, in th Way of Kings he provided an external POV to Dalinar's struggle, in WoR he assisted with the plot of taking down Sadeas and provided a subject for Shallan's daydreaming, and just when for a hot moment he is about to get interesting it all gets shoved under the carpet for cuddly scenes with Shallan and being a side to a triangle with no real pay off for anyone. I guess my problem is that he's just there to assist with what is currently going on with the plot and not much outside of that. Um, maybe we should stop discussing this particular matter now? This is turning a bit into Adolin hating and I'm sure we are being harsher than we ought to...

To be honest with you guys, Shallan's reaction to the arranged marriage bothered me since WoR where she immediately responds positively to it and saying something along the lines of "I spend my whole life expecting my father to pick my husband" so, naturally, now that she's free from that and Jasnah suddenly suggests an arranged marriage she isn't bothered by it at all? No matter how beneficial it might be for her family having the freedom to chose taken from her so suddenly should annoy her even a little bit. And of course the scenes with Adolin that followed didn't help at all, not me at least. I think they were supposed to be cute and funny, but I found them to be trying too hard for "cute and funny" and ending up with cartoonish. Pair that with what we got in OB, which was so well described abone by @Starla @Egomere @Dreamstorm, this whole romance feels so shallow and cheap to me. And on top of that, I feel that all this was done so that another(!) arranged marriage could work which just annoys me even more.

And how is everyone today? Judging by how much this thread has grown since I last saw it, I'd say it's been quite the productive day. So here's what I've been mulling over all morning. WARNING: Mistborn: Well of Ascension Spoilers. sidenote: I'm going back into class in a bit and to the gym afterwars so I might not immediately see your answers.

Ah, right, I missed it.But still, he can be reproducing and imitating Shallan's thoughts that she found a version of herself that is the right one. The phrasisng is also weird. "This is a good you, Shallan". Why not "This is good for you Shallan" which reminds me his "This is a good lie"? Why not just "This is you, Shallan" to indicate a step in the right direction, since previously Pattern seem to understand Shallan so well and seemed concerned about her multiple personalities? And what about the whole thing in the market and how he gets when she wonders if Veil killed her brothers and he worriedly asks if she can't tell? That last one just came to me while typing and it seems quite interesting.

@SLNC Really good catch with the bond between Pattern and Shallan deteriorating. It makes me think, how will it affect Pattern? Syl got progressively more playful and childlike, when her bond with Kaladin was deteriorating, becoming more and more like a windspren. When we saw Pattern first in WoR, when his bond with Shallan wasn't very strong, he was acting imbecilic (in Shallan's words) and was confused about the world, so his lack of lines and input towards the end might indicate a relapse. Here what I'm thinking, though, about the line "This is good for you Shallan": Syl was getting more like a windspen, so assuming the the lower order of Cryptics are the creationspren, what if Pattern is being more and more like a creationspren? His line might just be an imitation of Shallan's thoughts at that time, as creationspren imitate things around them.

Good points all, fitting and well made, and a great expansion on the original post. Maybe Jasnah, though I personally I don't see as a possibility at this stage it but I wouldn't be opposed to it at all, is present day Gavilar, or maybe we haven't met the person yet or maybe there won't be such person. It all depends on Kaladin and what he chooses. If I were to pick a possibility, I'd go with not having yet met the person, just out of personal preference, but anything can happen (not the least of which being that I'm completely off with the theory no matter how much it fits), even Tarah might resurface and be single (really longshot). Who knows? (I wish I did.)

Yes! I like it. Much more thematic and mysterious than mine!

That's why I said that she'll continue to ridicule him. Initially I thought it might be residual resentment for Helaran's death or Shallan being Shallan but I realized it might point to something else. Nope I buried it... deep... both versions of it. I won't break today's good streak and I'd never subject you guys to my barely existant artistic skill. Although the longer I look at it, it resembles abstract art, really cheap and easy art done by an average 12 year-old on a shakey desk, but it's vague enough to make for an unassuming avatar. And it looks more like an hourglass now than a bow tie...

Yes! But I'm afraid this will require someone with a better skill in the visual arts, because my meagre MS Paint certainly can't do it justice. I lust made an attempt and, sure enough, it's awful... It looks like a weirdly coloured bow-tie.

Oh, this is getting worse. I'm terrible at drawing and graphic design, even more than naming. Maybe two intelocking triangles, to mirror the Ghostblood symbol? If that works, I don't know, I guess I'm on a roll today.