Hoiditthroughthegrapevine

Was having a hard time finding videos of black light lit mist, but here's a slightly different version of the same thing, it's a smoke machine lit by blue/violet light: Something close to voidlight might be visible at the margin of the light cone. If you imagine the central white portion inverted so that it is black, with the same nimbus of blue/violet light at the margins, this might be close.

This is a far from common presentation of the flame that accompanies the Pharaoh's Serpent chemical reaction (ignited Mercury(II) thiocyanate), but this is a pretty amazing possible visualization of Voidlight (starting at about 20 seconds into the video, and especially at 56 seconds in): Anyone else have any videos that shows a real world analog for the wickedly creepy dark violet light that is Voidlight?

Some introductory questions: What is the proximal limit of the use of the adhesion surge? How far away can adhesion be projected? We've seen Dalinar stick a group of angry spearmen to the ground with a force sent out like a ripple in water (Sadeas and Aladar's troops, skirmishing in Urithiru). How close to the surgebinder can adhesion be used? We've seen Kaladin use the surge to paint the chasm floor with a sticky swath in his 3 on spear training battle, and this was painted on the floor through his boot. Can air pressure be decreased as well as increased? Does said air pressure need a physical target that it's affecting, or can it be just a point in space where pressure is increased or decreased? Can the surge be used to create a perfect vacuum? Does this vacuum as well need to be attached to a physical target or can it be created in a particular point in space (most likely in the shape of a spherical bubble)? Can this pressure be confined to a finite space but with an infinite amount of investiture fueling it? In other words is there a size limitation to what can be invested with the power of pressure/vacuum and is there some saturation point for space time in regards to investiture? Here's the speculation part, depending on the answers to the questions above. I am assuming that there probably is a proximal range for the application of this surge, probably similar to the limit in length that a spren weapon can take on (the height of the spren in Shadesmar). So when Dalinar uses his surge, he can affect possibly everyone that he sees as that is the approximate size of his spren. While Kaladin would probably be more limited to near range application of this surge. The other question about how close to the surge binder adhesion can be used is possibly more interesting. Obviously adhesion investiture can be transmitted through proximate articles of clothing, but could it also be used to invest clothing being worn? If so, Kaladin could more easily scale a chasm while with surgebound gloves on than by using rocks adhered to the wall. Also, imagine a large net being invested with the adhesion surge that was thrown at enemy troops, and then lashed down to the ground as well, until it ran out of stormlight it would be a formidable troop immobilizer. If there is no range in the application of this surge, then the answer to the use of this surge is obvious. You just take the Odious army, increase air pressure above said troops, and then in a loud voice say "Kneel before Zod", and the war is won. The use of this surge (to make things stick to a surface) has been mostly about decreasing the air pressure below the object that is to be stuck, letting the air pressure of the system do the magic of pushing the object to the surface. Arguably the creation of the windbreak by Kaladin in OB would be an increase of air pressure, forcing the winds of the highstorm to divert around the area of increased pressure (not unlike a rock diverts the flow of water in a stream). If it is possible to increase air pressure, then it should be possible to create a repulsing field like a force field. Even if the inverse adhesion has to be applied to a physical object, it's still possible to imagine this being used to create a troop level force field that should be capable of diverting missile attacks, and possibly being used to paint a section of ground to create a stationary missile defense wall/troop repeller. Obviously there has to be a subconscious bridge between the intent of the surgebinding and the application of the investiture (like the sticking of chairs, rocks, and lopens to the wall) because if the pressure was decreased uniformly around all of the surface areas of the surgebound object, the whole object would be sticky, and if enough investiture was added the object would likely implode. So plausibly, the magic system translates the intent into the proper manifestation. Which I think is a cool idea, basically this allows the surgebinder to think of an application and lets the magic system do the finicky calculations of the application of the investiture. Say the surge of adhesion can be projected to a particular bit of space, with set confines, and can control absolutely the atmospheric pressure within those confines (this might be possible based on the WoB that windrunners using this surge could create a bubble around their head that would allow them to fly to the moon). It would be possible to explode and implode an infinite variety of things, and could also be used (with some fabrials to be sure) to create high level chemical compounds such as liquid nitrogen, liquid oxygen, etc. Also Kaladin could boil water to make boiled tallow a whole lot faster. Just some fun speculation, will be thinking about this some more, these are interesting thought experiments.

I think this is an interesting point, I think that there may be something to the human vehicle using the knife needing to exhibit an intent opposite to the Divine attributes of the Herald that is killed with the Odium blade. that instead of just understanding them like a person capturing an unmade needs to, the herald killer has to represent the opposite of their divine attributes. Moash abandons bridge 4, and Kaladin (the opposite of protecting) and he betrays them all (the opposite of leading). When Leshwi the fused comes to find Moash while he is breaking up Kholinar palace to ask him to kill a god, there is the following exchange: The thing that has broken Moash is that he chose the wrong path, he chose his own personal vengeance over the ideals and principles of his friends, and especially Kaladin. I think that Moash's dark charcter arc will widen to encompass all of the inverse intents of the Heralds, and that he will be the main vessel for Killing the remaining Heralds. There is this bit during that same scene (chapter 121 Ideals) where Hnanan, a fused equivalent of the light-eyes is talking to Moash: This heavily implies that Odium has picked him out as being a very special tool. I think that over the next 2 books we will see Vyre (Moash's godkiller name) pick off the remaining heralds, other than Taln and Ash. I think it's going to be particularly dramatic when Vyre takes out Ishar and Nale, because they believe that they are on Team Odium, but Moash has no qualms about betraying those he is working with.

Brilliant! Sad I can only up vote it once!

Spat out some pop reading that one. That's some funny rust brother.

@Calderis I think we can take a stab at guessing what her childhood truths were, back when she was young and in a relatively happy family: It wasn't really the axehound that broke the vase, I did that. I think Balat is really annoying. Jishu didn't really wet his bed *sniffle, sniffle*, I snuck into his room late at night and put his hand in warm water. It's all my fault! Then she has a shardblade.

@Necessary Eagle Here's a possible candidate, Celluloid Heroes by the kinks (possibly renamed Worldhopping Heroes)

This one is spoilered because it shows the scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark where the Nazi villian's face is melting because he foolishly didn't look away when the Ark of the covenant was opened (kind of gruesome image really, but at the same time how come everyone's always talking about "Kelek's Breath"?):

This is important work you are doing here, seriously awesome post,

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but the Chapter title for the Chapter where Kaladin watches all the people/listeners that he cares about Kill each other and freezes is called "The One You Can Save". Also, before this we get a scene from his initial spear man days where he freezes during training because he realizes that he could kill. It's an interesting counter re-enforcement of the notion of limited protection. I think the 4th windrunner Ideal is simply this: "Protect the ones you can save" Which, if sworn as an ideal, has the logical condition that the Radiant has to accept that he can't save everyone, which in my opinion is the thing that Kaladin has the hardest time doing. I personally think that Kaladin will never swear this ideal, and as a consequence he will develop different manifestations of power than any Windrunner has previously had, precisely because he isn't willing to accept not being able to protect people. I think that a spren wouldn't accept an Ideal sworn without belief and I think his darkness and his pain are instrumental in the makeup of who he is. I think Kal is going to be the best KR, even though he is stuck perpetually on the 3rd ideal. What's the big deal if he doesn't have shardplate, he's fought off countless shardbearers without it, and frankly I think he is a lot more interesting of a hero without it. His apparent weakness is actually his greatest strength.

"The Plan is" Ivory said. Glancing at Ivory who was on the table inspecting a sphere filled bag Jasnah replied. "I know, it is dangerous Ivory, but I fear that this is of such strategic importance that a calculated risk must be taken. There has been something we've been missing all along about this place, about the very nature of how the Fused seem to have endless Voidlight—about how the whole fabrial city is like a gem without it's stormlight— and I believe I know where to start looking." "But is this wisdom, unreliable she is" "Shallan is unreliable, but the greater risk is being alone and isolated down there. We have no idea what we will find." "Ah, yes, wisdom this is" Ivory said, his shimmering features reflected in the sphere that he had taken from the pouch and held in his hand. "A good soul, this is." —new scene— Shallan walked down the corridor to where the main cistern of Urithiru was located and was ashamed to feel nervous! With her marriage to Adolin she was now one of the most important Brightladys in all of Roshar, but every time she thought of Jasnah she felt like a child who had gotten caught sneaking sweets. Pattern hummed nervously from her skirt. "Shallan, Mmmm – do you know why Jasnah wants to meet with you, it seems mmmm, a peculiar request" "No, but you know Jasnah, always taking lots of time to tell everyone what her plans are. She's the least secretive person in all of Roshar, you can never get her to shut up about what she is doing, and why she's doing it." "MMmmm. Sarcasm." Pattern hummed contentedly. Shallan saw her, standing at the edge of the giant pool, lit by the green light of Mishim and her heart jumped into her throat. Storms, how could she even think she was a Radiant, compared to this woman she truly was a child. Radiant can handle this, Shallan thought, but no, she pushed that thought down. I have to do this myself, for some reason I know that this is important. "Good, you're finally here, late as usual I see. Did you bring the items I requested child?" "Umm, yes. I have my sketchbook, a large portion of the Royal Emerald reserve that were just infused, and one of those new panrials that Navanni has been making. Umm, might I ask why we are here at this inconvenient hour of the night, you know Brightness there is an easier way to get a drink of water." Jasnah clucked in her throat, "Now Shallan, you really must guard that tongue of yours. I guess you do deserve an explanation." Shallan waited. Oh Jasnah! This is some sort of test, why does she always have to be testing me like this. Can I wait patiently for her to give me the explanation, why yes teacher Radiant, thank you teacher Radiant, what a great lesson this is. As the minutes stretched by, Shallan's cheeks were barely even flushed with anger, and she only drew a single angerspren, that really could have been a bit of spilled wine at her feet. "Good," Jasnah said. "This is a very dangerous mission we are going on Shallan, I needed to ensure that you could control yourself when required. We are going to a place that probably hasn't been visited in over 2,000 years. Our journey will be fraught with peril, and I had to know that I could rely on you to Control yourself." "We are going to explore the deepest mystery of Shadesmar, the point where the sea of beads extends to its most unfathomable depths." Then Janah hiked up her divided skirts and stepped INTO the cistern, Shallan gaped. What in the world is she doing? Feeling like a fool, Shallan followed her in. She immediately began shivering as she stepped into the icy waters with coldspren falling around her like blue cyrstaline snowflakes, shattering apart and reforming. She followed Jasnah and let go of her skirts as the water was now well above her waist. She stopped when Jasnah turned to her, standing in the still water, her torso mirrored in the green moon lit surface of the cistern. Jasnah touched the surface of the water, stormlight spread out from her palm in crystalline branches, until the whole surface of the cistern was glowing, a single luminescent mirror of stormlight. From the edges of the pool stormlight spread upwards, like a viscous fluid flowing the wrong way, curving in on itself until they were completely enclosed in a glowing dome of Stormlight. Then the dome collapsed in on itself, and for a brief moment Shallan could see the black sky of shadesmar with its strange cloud formations superimposed over the dark evening sky, Mishim's pale light lost in the light of that strange sun. When her vision cleared, Shallan saw that she was on a small obsidian island floating high in the sky of Shadesmar. Jasnah straightened her skirts, which were also some how dry, infuriating woman, and approached Shallan with a solemn expression. "This is something I have been planning since before we arrived at Urithiru. I had suspicions from my forays into this Realm that its greatest mysteries might lay within its greatest depths. That trite, poorly researched book you picked up in Kholinar had some interesting conjecture that were in keeping with some of the thoughts that I myself have had. We, Shallan shall be trying to find one of the keys to our victory over the voidbringers. I have perhaps said too much already, what is essential for you to know is that I have made certain discoveries but I lacked the wherewithal to test them, so against the urging of my spren, I have decided to...trust you." "Uhh, thanks," Shallan said, and again had that feeling of being a mouse before a mink. "That painrial that I asked you to bring, hand it to me". Jasnah held her hand out distractedly as she scanned the horizon. Shallan, for the first time chanced a glance over the edge of the floating platform of glass and immediately pulled back from the edge. Storms, she thought, even with the amount of stormlight we have in these emeralds, a fall from this height would probably kill us. Could the bloody pulp of a body splattered like a fruit against a wall be put back together again, even with stormlight? She shivered and fished the painrial from her satchel and handed it to Jasnah. As Jasnah held the device, Shallan noticed that the form of the actual painrial was fuzzy and indistinct, and that it almost seemed to be vibrating in multiple planes simultaneously. "Take a memory of this device Shallan, and draw it for me" Without thinking Shallan took a memory, but storms, that memory HURT. She could feel the wrongness of the image that she had captured as the rapid succession of states of the device tried to assert there reality. She grabbed her head and fell down onto the black glass, and grabbing her sketch pad she drew. She had to get this memory out of her mind, she sketched feverishly, tears leaking down her cheeks as the wrongness of the image beat at the inside of her skull. Finally the pounding within her head stopped, she set her charcoal down and looked at her sketch. In twisting, scratched lines she had drawn the painrial as series of vertical bars swirling into a central point, like the bars of prison collapsing into a singularity. Most shocking of all, she had drawn the pain spren, as it manifests in the pyhsical realm, as a hand. But there was something terribly wrong, the hand was stripped of flesh. It was a sinewy claw shown in multiple different states, beating, scratching and tearing at the vertical bars of its prison. "Stormfather!" Shallan said, "It's a corrupted spren! Fabrials corrupt spren!" "I have long suspected that this would be the case," Jasnah said, still surveying the shadesmar sky. "I do believe our use of fabrial technology has given Odium access to many knives at our backs. I have studied a real soulcaster in Shadesmar, it does not exhibit this chaotic vibration of form that our modern fabrials do, we have done a terrible thing imprisoning spren, Shallan. And I fear we will pay a terrible price for this." ---end part 1---- More to come when I have more of my work done.

There's a new Rosharan expletive (spoilered for those of you who don't like that sort of thing):

I am a god at this point, and I do have a moral resposibility to make sure Roshar doesn't burn. I am a cosmeric projection of the Author himself, I said before that I started out as words on a Page, and this is true. Here are the supporting details for this truth. I tell the best stories, period. I am represented as a single man, but how could a single man be in all of the places that I am supposed to be in, while still maintaing my prolific output of pure genius (like a certain mortal with the initials BWS does) unless I have been personally invested by the shard of Brandonalsium? If I am being honest with myself, all I really want to do is go back to the good old days on Yolen when my dragon friend Frost and I had bbqs and played bachi ball.

Just some off the cuff ideas here: "Everybody was World-Hoppin" (Sung to the tune of Kung-Fu Fighting) "Everybody wants to World Hop" (Sung to the tune of Everybody Wants to be a Cat from Disney's the Aristocats) "World Hopper" (sung to the tune of Thunder by Imagine Dragons, World Hopper has the same syllabic stress and end rhymes with Thunder, this might be a very good choice if your song is about how everywhere you look you see a storming worldhopper, and here's a transposition of the chorus: (ORIGINAL) I was lighting before the thunder Thunder, Thunder Thunder, thun-Thunder thun-thun-thunder,thunder, thunder Thunder, thun-thunder Thun-thun-thunder, thunder (MODIFIED) Now everybody's a world-hopper World Hopper World, hop-Hopper hop-hop-hopper, World Hopper Hopper, world-Hopper World-hop-Hopper, Hopper

I think the Ketek form is really neat too, here is a Meta-ketek that exposes one of the features that makes this such an interesting form:

I used to speculate that the Fused were returned, broken KR, but in re-reading Oathbringer the textual evidence that they are indeed the returned souls of Ancient Listeners is just too great. I believed that Ulim could be lying and that the Stormfather also could be lying, but i think the nail in the coffin of this theory comes from one of the fused themselves. In I-12, Rhythm of Withdrawal, Venli is talking to Rine,one of the sanest of the Fused and Rine says to the Rhythm of Withdrawal (one of the only new rhythms that has a calm tone): This makes the goal of the Fused understandable, they are spirits of Ancient Listeners tied to the cycle of Odiuos rebirth through their passion for vengeance, and it also makes their struggle slightly heroic. It's definitely a twisted way to accomplish their goal, but then again, they seem to be bound to Odium who is nothing if not twisted.

Zen coen: What is the sound of a one armed Herdazian clapping?

Just a thought as to one of the most inaccessible spots to hide the bound and captured Bo-Ado-Mishram gem. If BAM was indeed captured in a perfect gem, we know as @Argent pointed out: So, the elsecallers were the keepers of the Perfect Gems, we have seen in Celibrant that money changers use perfect gems as a basis for their Stormlight/credit exchange economy, so perfect gems can and do exist in Shadesmar. So, my guess as to where BAM is currently located is that an Elsecaller put this most dangerous of contained Gems in another realm, and in the most inaccessible place to reach imaginable, but which could be watched over by Elsecallers, whose special prerogative as Radiants is mastery over transition to the Cognitive Realm. My guess is that an Elsecaller took the perfect gem holding BAM, and dropped into the deepest most inaccessible pit in all of Roshar's two accessible Realms, namely the nearly bottomless sea of glass beads where the Tower of Urithiru is but in the Cognitive Realm. Imagine how far down that sea of beads would have to go in Shadesmar to match in magnitude the height of the mountain of Urithiru in the physical realm. Really this would be like sinking BAM into a depth a couple of magnitudes greater than the depth of the Marianas trench on earth. It would be difficult in the extreme for any but the most accomplished of Elsecallers to locate and retrieve it from there. I only think this is an interesting point of speculation, a possibility for the location, not a definitive theory by any stretch. I have a thread where I talk about another possible reason for the dismantling of Kholinar, that I haven't seen anyone else really talking about.

If you are just trying to Rhyme Persepolis in the context of a gift note, why not try to work in one of the following: Fer-love-of-this (using the slightly slang pronunciation of the word For, transcribed as Fer) Purchase-of-this (rhymes quite nicely with Persepolis, and has the same consonance as the original word) Gifts such as this (Has the same cadence as Persepolis and is a highly adaptable phrase). Hope those help and Merry Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanza/Pagan blood soaked rite of Celebrating Winter Solstice (gosh, it's so hard to be politically correct these days)

@Rainier Looking forward to those songs from Phantom (especially Phantom of Urithiru)! @Necessary Eagle Can you specify what [X] is? Would be easier to point you to song with potential knowing what that is (need the phonetic sound and syllable count as a basis for recommendation)

@Rainier that's Hauntingly beautiful, perfect for one of the most touching scenes in all of OB, really nice work!

@bdoble97, that looks great! The smaller beard strands look awesome, and the carapace head ridges are rad!

Some interesting thought experiments regarding Larkin: What would happen if a larkin was flying just beyond the Storm wall in a High Storm? Could the Larkin feed of the Investiture directly from the Highstorm? So we have seen Chiri Chiri drain a substantial amount of Investiture from the King's Drop in the Rysn interlude, and afterwards Rysn noted that Chiri Chiri was bigger. So, is this feeding off of Investiture really a case of a conversion of Investiture into Matter? If so, what other potential ramifications does this feeding off of investiture have? Spiritual energy, or Investiture has a near limitless potential, is the Larkin through it's existence in Roshar confined to creation of Matter that is Native to Roshar? What if the Larkin was on another Shard World? What would a Larkin do, if brought into Shadesmar? Could an entire Spren city be destroyed by the Larkin feeding off the investiture of all the Physical Realm items that have been manifested in the Cognitive Realm? Would the larkin be able to feed on a Manifested stone of a wall, and have it pop back into the simple bead representation of that stone? Could a single Larkin have defeated the entire Lifeless army of Bluefingers? I know it's been posited that Breath's are sticky, but the greater the Investiture, the more it resists a separate Investiture. With only one breath, it seems like a single Larkin would be all that a Nalthian kingdom needs to defend itself from Lifeless troops.