Art
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I am confident that Sanderson will give us sufficient information on these being travellers from other worlds with other strange powers but in a way consistent, contained, and explained by SA as a complete arc. You could learn more by going elsewhere, but it will be developed enough to make sense and feel a part of the story (and not just a throwaway) if all you read is SA.
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1 minute ago, CaptainRyan said:
I didn't say Ruin could. I said he was able to converse with Vin. I am aware of his limitations.
My questions is why Harmony doesn't just use his Preservation ability of listening to spiked people's thoughts and out the Set that way. Also, Harmony could speak directly to any spiked Set member - if Harmony chattered at you 24/7 for weeks on end you might agree to just give up haha.
I forget: Could Harmony listen to or speak to Bleeder? Or was he blind in that way to the foreign metal alloy?
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5 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:
One thing I don't get is that Ruin was able to converse with Vin when she only had one spike and, I believe, Preservation was able to listen to people's thoughts when they had one spike. Sure, Harmony cannot control humans with less 4 spikes but why didn't he just eavesdrop on them?
Good question. Had a thought, but removed it. I'd need to re-read Shadows first.
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I'm spitballing here, but a controlled world would, on the surface, seem to be opposite Autonomy's intent. That said, it's been confirmed that Autonomy is protective of the autonomy of HIS world but has no issues in meddling on others, yes? So what if Autonomy, in an effort to protect the autonomy of his world, is attempting to control/manage others who he fears might interfere with it? Perhaps he has had a future sight of the people of Scadrial interfering with his own world, and the rate of progress on Scadrial (towards being spacefaring, which we know is one of Sanderson's intended eras) is what he fears he can't control and so why he's moved from controlling to extinguishing. It doesn't seem to mesh with the Set's organizational naming, though, but perhaps I'm trying to tie the Set too closely to Trell's influence. Eh... I'm still leaning towards the whole Set/Series/Sequence/Suit/Array naming as being connected to Trell in some way.
On Dominion, is his intent concerned with domination or more of the idea of dominions as in distinctive regions of control? I confess I know very little of him.
While I think Autonomy could certainly work as being Trell, I like the idea of all of the motifs I outlined being more than just two sides of the conflict but actually being reflected by the Intent of Trell, too. And Dominion might be a much better fit if it turns out it is a Shard we know. But I admit I may be going too far in trying to tie it all together, and I definitely won't be disappointed if it turns out I'm wrong.
Edit: I keep going back and forth. The themes could very well tie nicely with the consequences of Autonomy's intent.
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There was a comment on this in Bands of Mourning. Suffice it to say, humans are not kandra. The limit on spikes seems to be different. I think the comment was that three spikes was pushing it; more risked Harmony taking control.
EDIT: Found it. From Bands of Mourning, Chapter 27.
QuoteSuit: "The trouble with Hemalurgy is in its limitations (. . .) What's more, if you spike yourself too much, you become subject to Harmony's . . . interference (. . .) I am limited to three boons (. . .)"
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59 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:
The big challenge in assigning a new Shard to Trell is that we know the mystery metal is from a Shard we know:
Hmm... that may be problematic. I do not wish to be seen as reaching, but it is possible that the metal is from a shard we know but who is not Trell. Trell could be a shard we do know, but the "order/perfection" motif is so strongly in the work that I'm hesitant to discard it as evidence to who Trell is (though I suppose it's possible Trell is only manipulating anti-Harmony sentiment). None of the names of other shards we know strike me as necessarily having an intent that would result in this type of "controlled" pattern. Everything, from the motives of the antagonists to the conflicts the lead has faced, would tie very nicely together if it is related to Trell's intent, though perhaps I'm looking to tie it up too neatly. And then, it all could be evidence of Trell's intent, but maybe I've interpreted it as being towards "order" when it should be something else.
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Hi, all. This is my first post. I may not be up-to-date on everything Sanderson, but I had some thoughts I'd like to share regarding Trell. If these thoughts have been espoused before, I'd be happy to be linked to them. My thoughts are specifically on the entity affecting the era two Mistborn novels, not the historical religion found on Scadrial. The two entities may be revealed to be the same, but the historical Trell is outside the scope of this post.
I believe we can infer quite a lot about Trell's intent from what we've been given in the novels so far. First, let's consider the Set, who have been working with Trell. Here are the names we're introduced to from this organization:
- Set (the organization)
- Series (the group of leaders)
- Sequence (Telsin Ladrian, a high ranking admin)
- Suit (Edwarn Ladrian, a high ranking admin, though lower than Sequence)
- Array (Irich, high ranking researcher)
Let me note that if we consider all of these names as part of a theme, then "Suit" should be considered like a card suit (hearts, diamonds, spades, and clubs), not the suit you wear. Most of the terms can be found in mathematics, and perhaps more importantly, are all ways of organizing, categorizing, or ordering items. Furthermore, the Set's mission is opposed to Harmony. They do not like the disorder that exists under Harmony. They want to create the perfect society. I've noticed an interesting parallel in Marasi's dream of a perfect society organized by statistics, in which crime can be prevented by knowledge of statistics and eliminating the factors that would cause crime. (This is not to imply that Marasi will in any way join the Set or Trell, but I do not think Sanderson would present her views without reason or potential payoff of some sort from the themes of the story, even if it's small).
Furthermore, let's look at the major conflict Wax has had with Harmony in recent books: the permission of evil. It's the same conflict that broke the kandra Paalm. Wax accuses Harmony of not preventing such things, but Harmony rebuts him by asking where the line could be drawn. To what degrees is he supposed to maintain order? His intent is Harmony, the balance of Ruin and Preservation, and in this balance I think we can find a side intent in preserving the free will of humans, in permitting both the evil and the good, in their disorder as much as their order.
Furthermore, we meet an "Immortal" who has been working with the Set, who I think it's safe to assume is a more direct agent of Trell than the Set are. The Immortal communicates to Suit that they are no longer interested in managing civilization on Scadrial because "[r]ecent advances have made civilization [on Scadrial] too dangerous. Allowing it to continue risks further advances we cannot control, and so we have decided to remove life on this sphere instead." (emphasis mine)
Now, I don't know that there is a direct opposite of Harmony, the way Ruin and Preservation were opposed, but given the themes and conflicts we've seen, and how this parallels very nicely with the goals of the organization working with Trell, I do think we can see how Harmony and Trell can be opposed. Whereas Harmony permits disorder in the name of free will, Trell's motives appear to be total order, a sort of totally planned world that operates in an ordered, predictable, and controlled way. Again, we see the Set in pursuit of an ordered world, we see Marasi hoping such an ordered world can be peaceably brought about, and we have Wax in personal conflict with the harm he and others have experienced because of free will and the permission of evil. Trell, in a sense, is what they all want (or think they want(ed)), though much, much more than they bargained for, and we're left with a Shard opposed to the way Harmony is managing Scadrial.
So I definitely do not think that Trell is Odium. He's something different, driven by organization and not hatred. His Shard is Order, or at least is a shard with an intent that desires that order, planning, organization, and perfection that is opposed to Harmony.
23
Rhythm of War Full Book Reactions
in Stormlight Archive
Posted · Edited by Art
I believe Navani's break-through in using tones to manipulate Investiture will lead to being able to export Investiture around the Cosmere.
And my guess is that the Challenge will occur midway through Book 5 and it will have a very bad outcome. Book 5 will end on some type of victory, but one with a cost that has Cosmere-wide repercussions. And the series is probably gearing up for an all out cosmic crossover in Books 6 through 10. This will escalate beyond Roshar. I don't see how the stakes could get bigger in Books 6 through 10 otherwise.