thebestoralist

Recreance Reveal! SO not only were humans the first voidbringers and invaders who stomped down the native Parshendi, but Honor would let all the Radiants in on that and convince them it was ok... Until Odium Splintered him, at which point he just told them all they were gonna destroy the world with the Dawnshards just like they did the Tranquiline Halls/their last world. And Odium was just like "yup, pretty much." Was the Tranquiline Halls Yolen? Were the Dawnshards the weapon that Shattered Aldonalsium? And as soon as Dalinar started thinking "you know, I've done a good job," it was pretty obvious it was all about to come crashing down. It was almost comical, if it hadn't been so heartbreaking. The Odium v Dalinar Vision Royale was badass too. But all in all, it was the introduction to the world of the Spren in Shadesmar that really pulled me in. Cultures, economies, and more Cosmere references than I knew what to do with. I need to reread the Celebrant chapters just to sort them all out. It was fun running around with full sized Syl and Pattern, too.

The 1st one is the only real mystery. I tried reading it for little hints of personality but all I can come up with is: - mad the other Shards broke the isolation deal (promises important) - is impressed with Hoid, but looks down on him for not taking up a Shard and notices his trespasses (protective) - was potentially opposed to Uli Da and is glad she's gone (anti-ambition) - is not concerned with Rayse (arrogance) sounds a little like Endowment? But most likely a new Shard. I'm going with something discipline or order-based.

That's a very utilitarian approach, and not one that I wholly disagree with, but "goodness" can be defined a hundred different ways. I guess the easiest way to figure out where Tanavast fits in this conflict is to understand what his goals (which we don't) and his methods (not even close) were.

@ScavellTane given how Kaladin describes the "dark light" around the Fused when they are (probably) Voidbinding to fly after him, I'm guess the run on Odium Investiture aka Voidlight. However, WoB says the spren predate the coming of the Shards, so a crafty spren may be able to let its partner draw from both. I be there would some crazy differences though, like the difference between saidar and saidin in WoT.

Is that how it works? I was under the impression that Stormlight was Honor's investiture, and that each Shard's power was slightly different based on the Intent. Sazed described Preservation as the power of stasis, while Ruin was the power of change. As such I figured there were limitations on what a particular Shard could do with its Investiture (Preservation couldn't change things, Ruin couldn't freeze them in stasis). Are there any other passages or WoBs that talk about "raw Investiture?" I'm genuinely curious.

@aemetha "Honor" can have several meanings, but a lot of times it means something is worthy of praise or distinction, "an honored guest" or receiving an honor are examples. I'm not saying Honor was necessarily a great guy, but his Shard's intent would push him toward being honorable, either by doing things worthy of recognition or sacrificing himself for what he perceived to be the greater good. Puts him in a much better position to be the good guy than the Hatred of God with no Context, ya know?

1) mainly because the Eshonai pov indicated that the Everstorm was a weapon to destroy everything, not restore the Parshmen. 2) makes sense. I wonder if he even knew about the healing effect or not. He hasn't mentioned it to Dalinar, that I recall. His opposition to it may have just been a knee-jerk reaction to Odium's involvement. 3) I'm a little foggy on her transformation, but she sought out Stormform, right? It turned out to be very different than what she expected, and in the end she was trapped in the form, but no one forced her into it, right?

Based on what we know of OB so far, the result of Stormform, and by proxy the Everstorm, was to heal the Parshmen of the damage to their minds/souls that was done millennia ago. It apparently did not bond them with voidspren and automatically turn them all into Voidbringers, though it looks like it made such a process possible. Here's what I'm wondering: was the purpose of the Everstorm truly to heal the Parshmen? I know it did lots of damage and killed lots of people, but I find it strange that the Stormform Parshendi, with their red eyes and hateful Rhythms, were actually summoning a cure for their crippled people. That means a bit of Odium is flying around Roshar healing folks (as well as killing others). Obviously Odium's endgame is to convert the healed Parshmen (are they all Parshendi now?) into Voidbringers, but it's notable how vehemently the Stormfather fought the Everstorm too. In a way, the biggest splinter of Honor was fighting to keep an entire people crippled and enslaved, which seems contrary to Honor's intent. Even more interesting, there seems to be a degree of free will in the Voidbringer conversion process. Odium doesn't want slaves apparently - he wants angry warriors fighting for liberation. This is somewhat in line with his intent as a Shard, but doesn't quite paint him as the all-evil god we've come to expect.

I figured those were Honor and Cultivation, not Heralds. edit: nevermind.

Has anyone considered that maybe the Recreance was caused by some kind corruption of the Spren by Odium? For a while I thought that Odium somehow figured out a way to use the Nahel bond to harm/taint the spren, maybe due to the breaking of the Oathpact. This is similar to what the Dark One did to saidin in WoT. Therefore the KR, rather than basically becoming human versions of Voidbringers, chose to break their oaths and sever the bond. This crippled/killed the spren but gave the surviving ones time to recover. This also explains why a Herald is running around killing everyone who surgebinds, and maybe sets up the chance for Odium to do it again. The way I see it the "secret" that broke up the KR has to be something both devastating AND immediate. Learning that the Heralds gave up on them or that Honor deceived them would be tough, but it doesn't quite justify the urgency of calling the whole Order together and convincing everyone to give up their spren and powers immediately. Just a theory.

Thanks for those WoBs. I find it odd that Odium wouldn't want more power if he could get it, though I understand that he wants to remain "pure." If someone other than Rayse were to hold it, I wonder if some combination of Odium and Honor would turn into something like "Vengeance."

SPOILERS FOR ALL COSMERE BOOKS The best moment of Mistborn Era 1 was Sazed taking up the Shards of both Ruin and Preservation to become the uber-Shard Harmony. Per WoB, Odium is scared of Harmony, and in Bands of Mourning it's apparent that Harmony is singlehandedly fending off a significant threat to the whole planet of Scadrial. I think we've seen a similar blending on Sel, albeit in the absence of someone seizing the Shards of Dominion and Devotion rather than because of it. The AonDor appears to be a mixture of both, yet Odium did not seize them after Splintering them. I submit that not all Shards are compatible, at least without the presence of others. Harmony notes that Ruin and Preservation seemed like they actually wanted to work together, and Dominion and Devotion, while opposites, still share a connection of similarity. Odium, however, is simply God's hatred. It's hard to see how that intent could be similar to either Dominion or Devotion. It's not a complete opposite, like Ruin and Preservation. And both Shards' intents refer to a certain type of relationship with another, albeit in completely different forms. I guess my point is that I don't think Odium actually could take up either Dominion or Devotion - perhaps that was his intent in going to Sel and was really disappointed -though someone else may be able to hold both. A person holding both would likely call itself Marriage (I kid). I think Odium could only be combined if all the other Shards were going into the mix too. It's hard to imagine another Shard that would have a similar intent to just hating everything without context. What other Shards may be compatible? Will Brandon's big finale be a couple of Uber-Shards battling it out? Autonomy would likely be hard to combine since it's, you know, autonomous, but Ambition might be a good match. Honor and Cultivation seem to have teamed up at one point on Roshar, but I have no idea what combination of the two would look like.