OneNastyChull

But if it's investiture it's still preservation/ruins power correct?Even if it's a minute piece of power? Are you stating that the reduction of this power source, by hermalurgy, only changes its expression? That no investiture/power is lost in the transfer?

Haven't thought too much about Endowment in relation to this but doesn't the investiture return after being used, it just takes a while? Like the atium that was burned by all the atium mistings will come back it's just supposed to take a long while. I thought Scandrial was going through some boom and bust cycles and they were at the end of a boom (Lord Ruler stating it had been a while since he had purged the noble houses) Really though I just need to reread. On Harmony getting more Ruin focused I'm actually a believer of this unless the theories on him producing Harmonium in large quantities are right and this is part of it. Still though my main point on hermalurgy is that I want to know whether the full amount of investiture (not the spiritual DNA part only) is being degraded by hermalurgy or if it's taking up all of that investiture.

Oh Ive always thought that Preservation grew weaker as more humans came to be. That his depreciation in power partly due to giving up more with each human that came to be. Which is why he grew so weak but very very slowly. Going to have to read both eras again.

I understand all of that. I feel like I'm not phrasing this properly. Humans on Scandrial are born with innate investiture. This investiture comes from Preservation > Ruin until Harmony existed and at this point most are assuming that the innate investiture is coming equally from the combined shards. This investiture is also the Spiritual DNA of the humans on Scandrial. This investiture can be absorbed/taken by a hermalurgic spike. This spike contains less spiritual DNA potential. But my question is does the investiture(not the DNA, but the raw investiture ) transfer fully or is there some loss of this raw investiture. If there is a loss where does it go? Or am I misinterpreting that Preservation gave up his actual power while creating humans. I thought that was the whole reason he was getting weaker.

The spike also steals the innate investiture does it not? I mean the investiture that all Scandrial were originally formed with. I thought I read a WoB (will look for it) that stated that it would be possible to spike someone and steal their powers but the person spiked could also survive. But they would then be the equivalent of a drab. What I'm asking is where does that investiture go that was taken by the spike.

So it doesn't take more innate investiture to be a Mistborn or to be a stronger misting? Sorry just trying to be clear about this because that seems illogical.

Another question where does this power go that's lost from Hermalurgy? Does it return to Harmony?

Ah I've forgotten this then. Couldn't be remember if it was actually said in era 2 or not. Only read those once and it's been a year practically since BoM. Going to have to reread them.

Mistborn Spoilers: So in Era 1 I know that Hermalurgy caused a loss in allomancy effect which could be reduced to a very minimum amount by spiking directly from the giver into the receiver but do we know if that loss of effect still exists in Era 2 now that Harmony holds both shards? Can't find anything in WoB about this specifically. Or is hermalurgy remaining a reduction magic system. Or does Hermalurgy work on allomancy this way just because allomancy is a positive magic system? From all that I can tell it doesn't reduce the neutral system in Scandrial outside of only being able to take one ferochemical ability, which if the giver only has one ferochemical ability it wouldn't be a reduction of the effect.

I've been unable to find anything outside of that post by pagerunner which someone also linked to another Q&A I asked. Planning on asking him myself if he comes to Austin. Could be a combination of Alkali Metals and maybe alkali earth metals but that would be one unstable atom, can't even imagine the bonds that would exist. Would say Alkali Metals and halogens but they aren't all in pairs, just the three sets of shards that we know of while all the others seem to repeal each other or at least have no natural draw. Man it would be really interesting if Odium is a reflection of the most reactive Alkali earth metal and that's why he is seeking out so many others! Probably looking to deeply at this and it was simply inspiration only and doesn't mean more.

Whoa ok so a couple questions these last replies made me think of: You said Spook's soul, are you implying that Spook is still alive? Or although Harmony reworked the humans (which Spook was definitely reworked via receiving full mistborn powers) that he didn't receive the added ruin adjustment? Btw I'm a little opposed to the idea that Harmony gave the humans equal amounts of Ruin and Preservation. Otherwise wouldn't personalities or at least goals change? It doesn't seem like the humans are different fundamentally (at least in that regard; I realize they are different physically in regards to no longer needing resistance to ash) and instead seem overall the same. Or do you believe they are exhibiting more of Ruins side? And if so how? Personally through the growth of civilization they seem anything but stagnant which is what I think they would be if they had equal amounts. Or do you believe that the amount of investiture in the humans regardless of how much of either doesn't actually affect them on a personality level. From what lack of Breath does to drabs in WB I do believe that investiture affects personality. Expelling elemental Harmonium does seem like an amazing way to rid of the added effect of the atium that was burned by the atium mistings but why would it be needed to be expelled at all at this point (and by this point I mean by the end of BoM) if Harmony has already ridden itself of the added atium unless he is also losing Preservation investiture somehow. Or is Allomancy pure Preservation? (For some reason I've always thought it was also Ruin but now I feel unconfident about that)

Hey thanks crucible. That thread actually makes a lot of sense anoubt where the extra Ruin goes but now I wonder how many atoms, but more importantly electrons, of invested Preservation are in each human. I wonder if it's like the trace elements and salts in our body that help as the activators for a lot of proteins and/or catalysts reactions or if instead if it's of a "soul" nature.

*Mistborn spoilers* So with Harmony now containing all the investiture in Scandrial and giving up investiture to create humans, does a massive population increase reduce his powers of Preservation and make him more likely to lean towards Ruin? Given that he is retaining Ruin.

Anyone had the idea that the person hearing the screaming is the one bonded to them that keeps killing the spren? If the bond allows you to summon them and summoning them brings them to life while unsummoning the sword kills them then technically the person bonded to a dead shardblade is killing that spren again and again. But to hear the spren maybe the dead shardblade has to come into contact with someone who has a developed Nahal bond. Renerarin would then hear the dead blade once he had progressed far enough and this would allow Kaladin to not hear it (while last clapping) while Relis would (because Relis was bonded and Kal wasn't) while Kaladin was touching it with his flesh. If I'm correct then you would need to advance to the 2nd oath to give this effect because Dalinar doesn't hear it till then. (I don't think he even hears it he is just distressed by the blade when The Stormfather un bonds him. Although I'm not sure that was the stormfather that unbonded him but Dalinars bond smith powers (whole other discussion). Actually doesn't Dalinar feel something off about his blade towards the end of WoR without having yet said the 2nd oath?

Has anyone ever thought about Adonalsium shattering in the same way an atom does? I'm talking about the way nuclear fission works; beta and alphas decay etc . Usually the atoms that split off are extremely radioactive and put off a lot of energy themselves. If there is a thread that existed or a question put towards Brandon could you refer it to me! The reason I wonder is that it ends with ism and this refers to elements much of the time. A lot of your heavier weight elements naturally decay very quickly some on the manner of microseconds or less. I'm wondering if Adonalsium is referring to an extremely heavy weight atom that was either stable or maybe it was unstable which is why he/it had to be shattered.

Lastly I still want to know who the Champion will be unless it's just a distraction that Odium will never go for. I mean surely if BS actually goes the champion battle route we will get some character development of Odiums champion because introducing that kind of villain so late would really suck.

Alright Calderis I'm gonna take the con position on your idea of him reawakening his blade (honestly I'm pro him reviving it now that I'm disregarding my Adolin Champion theory but hey let's have discussion!). So to reawaken his blade wouldn't he have to have a spren already to just to gain regrowth powers? This idea of him reawakening it is like a dead chicken (the shard blade) coming before the egg (his stormlight power). Although if he becomes a squire of lift or another edge dancer? Or maybe shardplate can come first (I've always wondered if shardplate could be a spren tied to cultivation instead of honor) and that will allow him to revive it. I dunno that seems like an awesome idea and I want it to be true because that would be awesome but it seems illogical with what I know so far.

On Truthwatchers it's mostly the separation from the other orders and it kinda seems like they are implying they are the most intelligent order while also being introverted. Elsecaller seems like the intelligent extroverted order.

Wait Adolin was killed off in a draft of WoK? Alright I'm just gonna go ahead say that I can't support my theory anymore. What is SA?

Sorry I'm having problems getting the quote thing to work right for me (doing this all from an iPhone and ticking my family off because I've basically been sucked into only researching the cosmere instead of my families reunion but I'll get on my computer when I get back to Austin) but I feel like I need to start over or at least state why I feel like the series would be elevated by a betrayer being featured and such a fleshed out character. First I've struggled to ever read a series where this has been done well. Most authors won't even touch the idea because it is always so badly done. Brandon (to my knowledge) has yet to have tried this trope either because he thinks it's too badly done by others, too hard, he dislikes it immensely, or because he was holding it off for this series. I'm hoping it is the latter but I have trust that regardless of whether there will be a betrayer that the series will have a right to rep itself as the greatest modern epic ever made. (If he comes to Austin my exact question is going to be is there going to be a Betrayer character in SL) Stormlight has already surpassed WOT by the end of book two in my mind at least. Now yes this does make me "look" and even disregard somethings that I certainly should be considering (because BS doesn't waste a word of dialogue or even a line in explanation; every line he rights almost always turns out to be foreshadowing, the man is a literary freak of nature like that). Anything is always relevant making rereads totally necessary. The closest to a bad book he wrote was Elantris and I loved it still. Now im going to address what you said when you implied that Adolin could not be a sociopath. That is simply not true. First consider that at least half of all humans are sociopaths on earth. Second sociopath is a very broad term. It mostly means you don't feel empathy in a proper way that forms healthy bonds with humans. You still form bonds but they usually don't display a type of equality that true friendships or relationships are built on. Also this is all subjective because psychology is definitely the least explored science (outside of science fields we don't even know of yet) and least understood science and it's likely that half if not more of what we know of it is wrong. I hate to tell you this but you are likely friends with a sociopath. You actually yourself have a high likelihood of being a sociopath as because the higher your natural intelligence the more predisposed you are to have sociopathic tendencies (I'm going to assume most if not all on this forum have higher than average intelligence mostly because to appreciate a book to the degree that you would want to talk this much about it means you strive for knowledge) Now I have met a LOT of sociopaths. Unfortunately I at first wanted to be a doctor earlier in my life and I shadowed a lot of doctors and I can tell you nearly all of them are sociopaths. Sociopaths are usually charming on the service and can make you feel emotion that you wouldn't even believe possible. But you stretch past that service too deeply and you'll start to notice something's that aren't quite right, unfortunately you usually already like them to such a degree that you are willing to look past these things (much to your own detriment). Without going into deeper classification of sociopaths (narcissists, psychopaths, ect) there are varying levels of how sociopathic you can be. Your background can also suppress or enhance much of this but nature is hellishly strong. I don't particularly care for anyone who is ok with the idea of slavery and Adolin is definitely ok with this, in fact almost everyone is in Stormlight except those enslaved. Honestly the only main character thus far that I think isn't a sociopath is Kaladin. Everyone else displays all the textbook signs with Shallan probably being the worst if not Renarin. So yeah I haven't read Oathbringer so I don't know what's going to happen in it. Which honestly is a terrible point to make by you. That's like saying hey don't speculate because you could be wrong! Whats the point of that when this question was meant to speculate. If you have somehow read Oathbringer and have access to knowledge that the general public does not know then really you should excuse yourself from all discussions from those that have only been able to read up to WOR. Essentially you are inadvertently spoiling. Now if you haven't read Oathbringer, like me, then I can say the same to you. You haven't read Oathbringer so you don't know what secrets Shallan will or won't tell Adolin. Going off Shallans character thus far though I think it's safe to say she isn't someone willing to give up many of her secrets to someone else. Everytime she tells Pattern something she hates him more it seems including that time she said "I hate you". She goes out of her way to lie to people when the truth would be much easier. It's even the basis of her spren type, liespren. Im not claiming anything will most definitely happen and please excuse the word choice that has given you this implication. It's a theory and that's what theories do, they predict an ending. I'm not sure why you are so against me speculating. You have a differing opinion and that's great! But don't try and tell me I can't have one or that there is only one way to read two characters interaction in this series. Your life experience differs from mine as do your wants and desires. Only the writer has an end all opinion because, well, they made it and it's their art. I happen to think that BS made Adolin to be a deeper character than just what you have stated and I think there has been a lack in character development for him thus far because this was the pivotal moment that will lead to his development escalating (that moment being killing Sadeas). Have a differing opinion and definitely shoot holes in my ideas with literary facts or even ideas drawn from your life experiences. I'm going to do the same and since this is such a forward thinking idea I'm mostly going to pull from life experiences on how people act. Don't try and shut down discussion. This discussion is who will be Odiums champion if he in fact goes that route. I can't imagine why Brandon Sanderson would say that about Odium allowing a champion battle unless he was either foreshadowing an eventuality or as a huge misdirection to those that want to speculate. If you were to speculate that a champion battle would occur, who would you offer as this champion for Odium using only knowledge drawn from WOR and Q&As? I'm responding to you next Calderis after I eat this burger.

Ah I see what you are saying. I'm still pretty behind on all the Q&As Brandon has answered but I'm trying to catch up while still actually absorbing it all. So just wondering which order would you say Adolin fits into and why? I feel like he is disqualified from at least Elsecaller, bond smith, skybreakers, truthwatchers, illuminators, and windrunners. I'll tell you why I think so for those orders if you disagree with any thus far.

Hey thanks for welcoming me Mwgasif! (And anyone else I didn't directly say thanks for welcoming me, excuse the inconsideration please) My first adult fantasy was Armor by John Steakley (rip) but I've never picked up anything by Joe Abercrombie. Too much class work to allow myself to start another author in the past 5 years (picking up Red Rising almost made me fail biochem).

A true serial murderers first kill is usually someone they know and detest. This kill was something that he talked himself into being able to do because he had so many reasons of possible future pain. Again I am not disagreeing that Sadeas wasn't a bad person (although I do wonder if Odium wasn't influencing him in a bid to get this exact reaction from Adolin because Adolin would be the prize for Odium) and murdering him was an end-sum reaction brought upon by him screwing them over again and promising more, I'm not disagreeing with any of that. In by all cases this is the easier path. Now stating that let's look at the first oath. Life before death. Well since Sadeas wasn't actually trying to kill Adolin only trying to subvert his influence and ruin his future I hope you can agree that killing him wasn't the only option. Exposing him and changing the culture was the path to take even if it's clearly nearly impossible. Strength before weakness. Letting someone goad you into killing them is weak. Journey before destination again I go back to that there was another option and it wasn't killing Sadeas. Expose him, banish him, do whatever it takes but don't kill the red nosed twit. This means that in that action Adolin ran completely counterpoint to the oath which is why he won't be a radiant anytime soon. Could he change? Totally all he has to do is go ahead and admit to murdering a high prince and deal with the fallout which would likely be banishment because Dalinar has to do something but he won't kill him. Oye I do need to reread on some of the interactions with The Thrill though. I'm not doubting you being right on that maxal and I definitely need to try and reread Adolins response to it. I'll get back to you on that.

I was speaking towards the future in all that I said towards Adolin/Shallan. And I'm looking at Adolin as the champion for reasons of age/skill/and on the idea that BS would introduce the character who would become the champion pretty early in this series. I'm ruling Dalinar out because he's only going to slow down at this point and Adolin has surpassed him (any fight between champions will either mean both are given stormlight or neither). Also Dalinar had been on a 20 year self quest of forgiveness which is pretty difficult if you have ever met someone past age 35 trying to do. He had help from cultivation (is that what everyone thinks the thing in the east that gives the two-sides boons or has this already been figured out to be something else?) and that definitely helps but he was feeling the need for redemption from the moment Galivar died. Adolin can't be manipulated? Love is easily the 2nd largest catharsis for hate that has ever existed. And Adolin has been already shown to be the one who easily loves and leaves. What's going to happen when he loves and stays but then they leave? Adolin can tell no one about killing Sadeas because of fear which is the largest cartharsis for hate. He has to stay involved with his family , be made a ruler, and honestly he isn't particularly mature in any way. This is someone who at the wrong age commited murder. Your most formative years are your 20s and Adolin now has to hold the secret that in his moment of having complete control of his most loathed enemy spoke to him and then shoved a knife into his eye. Adolin didn't relish the murder? Are you kidding me? He monologued like your most evil brute would. Yeah he panicked as most criminals do at the idea of getting caught but instead of like an honorable man and just copping up to it, he hid the body. That doesn't speak to him being a good guy and if he gets away with it its the perfect seed for more murder. Everyone around him, his reformed father, his brother, his new best friend Kal, and Shallan (essientially a crush because she is never going to tell him her secrets so they can never be equal) now all are part of a group that he can't join. He is going to feel outcasted no matter what he or they do to try and include him. Lastly the champion fight is going to be a duel and he is already regarded as the best duelist. Also thank you for offering a counter view. Would be so boring otherwise.

"My island! It's mine." Lmao I've felt that way as long as I can remember about Brandon's book. Always felt like he wrote them specifically for me to enjoy when really I just think nothing better has existed before. I consider him the literary grandson of Tolkien (Jordan being his father). He's not the only recent author I am a fan of. John Scalzi and Brent Weeks rustle my jimmies as well. If you are past age 17 then I really recommend giving Old Mans War by Scalzi a read.