zeppomarks

Oh, good call. That would make sense since they also have the Honorblades.

I just got back to that part of the book a moment ago (this is my third time through, but it's been about a year and a half since the last time). I forgot that he mentions that there are approximately 100 known Shardblades on Roshar. But that still seems like a small number compared to the amount of Radiants there were. Dalinar even mentions that there are about 200 Radiants just at Feverstone Keep. Like I said, I'm not super convinced on the volunteer angle. Syl never even hints at any bonded spren surviving the Recreance. In fact, if memory serves, she says the opposite. I think she said that she only survived because she wasn't bonded at the time. But either way, I'm super curious where all the other Shardblades are. I wonder if Nale or one of the other Heralds has been collecting them to keep them out of human hands. I would imagine people would notice Shardblades disappearing over the years, but that would be the case no matter where they went. Maybe they're all still at Feverstone Keep, where ever that is. I don't know, but I love speculating. I'm never right, lol, but it's still enjoyable.

So I've had this theory for a while now, but I can't remember if I've shared it here or not.The prediction is new though. My prediction is that, during book 4 or maybe 5, they are going to find a series of descriptions of every shardblade and shard plate in existence, probably carved into stone or metal. Probably in Urithiru, and probably discovered by Shallan and/or Jasnah (or maybe Rushu). Eventually, this will lead them to the research being done by Geranid and Ashir, the two Ardents in the Reshi Isles, who discovered that measuring a spren can lock it in place. They'll realize that this is how the Radiants "killed" their bonded spren and how the shardblades and plate were able to become solid, unchanging objects. Then they'll be faced with a dilemma: Do the right thing by destroying the descriptions, thereby releasing the spren, or keep the powerful weapons and armor, despite now knowing the cost. They'll probably go back and forth on this, with main characters on both sides, until they finally do the right thing and destroy the descriptions. I'm thinking this will be done by Adolin, due to his experiences and developing relationship with Maya during book 3. He'll think he is saying goodbye, but the bond they've developed will turn him into an Edgedancer. He's not a traditional prospect for that Order, but their bonding has been anything but traditional. All the stuff with Adolin is just my freewheeling flights of fancy, but I think everything before that has a pretty good chance of happening. In case it isn't clear: my theory is just that the Radiants took down descriptions of their shardblades and plate, thereby locking them into place, before discarding them. This was a final attempt to protect humanity (giving them better means to protect themselves) before breaking their oaths. I'm also leaning towards the possibility that the spren who became shardblade and plate volunteered for the sacrifice. They're screaming, sure, but that doesn't mean it's not voluntary. The Heralds were in a similar situation during the Oathpact (i.e. voluntary agony to order to protect). Also, there only seem to be a few dozen shardblade and plate on Roshar at the beginning of WoK and there were definitely more than a few dozen Radiants. I doubt each order had less than 10-20 members at any given time, making the likely bare minimum number of shardblade and plate 90 each unless not all spren were "killed" during the Recreance. With so many kingdoms having less than three or four, with several having none, there just doesn't seem to be enough to justify every single Radiant "killing" their bonded spren. But on the other hand, there are more than enough logical possibilities to sidestep this apparent incongruity. So, I'm not at all convinced this is the case. It's just a thought I had. I might be treading a well-paved path here (or a WoB might have already blown this theory to kingdom come), but I've been away from the forum for a couple years. I'm a little out of date.

That makes sense, but it doesn't explain why he wanted us to think that it was a Listener. It's certainly possible that he was simply trying to mislead us, but it's equally possible that he was trying to establish a connection to Odium. Without proper context, there's no way of knowing.

@Krandacth Another possibility could be that both the Terris people and the Azish stem from the same population originally from Yolen and were brought to all of these planets shortly after the Shattering by the original migration of the Shards. I'm not sure how their accents could have survived 10-11k years of linguistic development to stay the same, but I don't think it really matters. Another small thing of interest, apropos of nothing, is how vehemently Sigzil resists being called a storyteller when his master, Hoid, is all about stories. Strange, and potentially telling, dichotomy that.

So this is what I think: I mentioned in another thread that I think that Odium has some strange ability to corrupt the Investiture of other shards, and I think that's exactly what he did with this "Trellium". We know from WoB that Odium doesn't Invest in planets because he doesn't want to diminish his powers, yet we still have Voidbinding, Unmade, and other little things that seem to disprove the WoB. But since all of these "manifestations" of Odium are just corrupt versions of manifestations of Honor and (possibly) Cultivation, I don't believe he actually invests. He just takes what is already invested and creates negative versions of it. That's why the Everstorm is a mirror version of a Highstorm. And I believe that this is where the Trellium comes from. A corruption of Ruin and Preservation's Investiture. I also believe a little hint was thrown into BoM by Sanderson. When, I believe it's Marasi, is looking at the picture drawn by the messed up Kandra of what I assume is a SoScadrian, the word "void" is used 2-3 times in fairly quick succession. I don't know what all this implies exactly, but I do believe it's a nod toward Odium. Could be a red herring, sure, but I don't think so. Not really Sanderson's style to throw in red herrings unless they're still relevant to the story in some way. I also don't think this is too small a reference to pay attention to. Especially when the subject of this thread was dropped in a minor conversation three novels before it became the Big Bad. There's no such thing as too small a hint when it comes to the Cosmere.

Personally, I enjoy Shallan. I find her to easily be the most complex and nuanced character in the books. Granted, it took me awhile. Whereas every other character's motivations are rather plainly spelled out (each and every times they even mildly consider their situation), there is a lot about why Shallan acts the way she does that I found I had to put some thought into why, before it made sense. There are so many forces working on her character that it's amazing Sanderson can keep them all straight. However, I also fully understand why folks might take exception to her. I disagree, but I understand.

I don't think you have much to fear with Kaladin and Shallan. If it were most other writers, I would be right there with you, but this seems to be a pattern with Sanderson. He sets up a lot of fake "love triangles" that actually start off with no possibility to go anywhere. Elantris you have Raoden/Sarene/Roial. I know there was no love between Sarene and Roial, but a complicating relationship, nonetheless. But there's never any doubt what's going to happen here. There's like 3 or 4 of them in Mistborn Era 1. First, Elend/Vin/Spook, then Elend/Vin/Kelsier(ish), then Elend/Vin/Zane. An argument can be made for Elend/Vin/The Well. Not a "love" triangle but certainly a "which one will she choose" moment. Though with all of these it's always obvious that Vin will choose Elend in the end. Mistborn Era 2 has Steris/Wax/Marasi, but again, it's obvious that he'll end up with Steris. And, when it comes to Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin, I think it's clear that nothing will ever come of Shallan and Kaladin. It makes sense that they would be attracted to each other, since, as far as they know, they are the only one's that can really understand what the other has been going through, but it wouldn't make any sense for them to get together in the end. Sanderson likes his kinda/sorta love triangles, but they never pan out poorly or in any way that doesn't make sense. I would be very, very surprised if anything happens between Kaladin and Shallan.

My thoughts: I don't think this scene is really supposed to show either character in a negative light. I understand how it would have that effect, but this seems more like two very witty and sharp tongued people finding another person of the same type after months of being around people who, well, aren't either of those things. So when they recognize that the other can match wits with them (and they're already annoyed at the other) they decide, instinctively, to challenge the other and to stretch their brain-legs. When they said all that horrible stuff, it had nothing to do with what they actually thought about the other person. It was just a snaps contest. Trading yo mama jokes. Which can also get pretty cruel if you kinda loathe the other person. To look a little further into it, it could very well have been a result of a natural conflict between their respective KR Orders. Windrunners are all about honor, and therefore honesty (quite often brutally so), and Lightweavers are all about lies. Sure, Pattern is always buzzing on about truth, but he only cares about truth in the context of whatever lie is trying to obfuscate it. And Syl is clearly racist against Cryptics... Hate is a four letter word, Syl... tsk^2...

While I was reading this, I realized the similarities between these two brothers and Trell and Naln from Mistborn. Coincidental, I'm sure, but interesting. As for your theory, I think you may be on the right path, or at least a path parallel to the right one. It may be that the "brother's" were powerful spren or Heralds or something. But then again, it may be exactly what you said. All I'm sure about is that Sanderson rarely puts anything in a novel that ends up being pointless to the overarching plot, especially when it comes a planet's history, so it's likely that the Purelakers' gods will end up being important in later books.

Ah. Well (pun totally intended), if it was from Allendi's journal then it's likely suspect information. The amount of that journal that Ruin tampered with makes most of the information unusable, or, at least, of questionable validity. Unreliable narrator, indeed. lol

Kelphonse? Alphonsier?

Yeah, I forgot about all the moons. with all of those gravitational forces acting on the planet it would make total sense for it to occasionally get pulled away from or pushed toward the sun enough to change seasons. As for the changes being unpredictable, they're probably completely predictable, but the cultural aversion toward predicting the future keeps them from exploring it. They tolerate stormwardens, but only because highstorms are so dangerous. Compared to those, a bit of frost or a sweltering sun probably doesn't seem worth the effort to get all voidbringery and try to predict. On top of all this, they probably don't have any autumn. Autumn is a result a regular seasonal patterns and is only different from spring because of flora and fauna cycles. If you lived on a planet where plants and animals had no regular seasons to regulate their life cycles on, then there would be no need for autumn.

Lol. That's right, I forgot she mentioned that she basically uses the space as a satchel. I was thinking that she said it was one of her spikes that was in her leg, but I could have been mistaken. I do remember her mentioning something about a metal box though too, And she couldn't have had her spike in a metal box or else it wouldn't have worked. Maybe Kandra actually do have some sort of permanent central nervous system. I always thought that they sort of just made and unmade all the bits, but it would make sense if there were certain bits that had to always be around.

Lol. Now I'm just imagining having a septic tank sloshing around between my ears... So wrong...

But didn't the theory say that the religion is of Devotion? Maybe I'm missing something. Side note: I totally forgot that the theory had come up from what we were talking about earlier. I've been jumping around this forum too much. Can't keep my conversations straight. lol

Huh. That could very well be. I think there might be more to it than this, but I certainly think it's plausible. The only thing off the top of my head that would contradict it is that Ashe at one point told Sarene something along the lines that her god wasn't his. Or at least implied it. And we know that Seons are of Devotion. Either way, I like the theory.

Hypothetical: Do Kandra fill the brain cavity of a skull with mush, or do they leave it empty? They don't need to create a brain, since their thoughts are caused by their spikes, and anything they put in there would be about 3 pounds of wasted mass. But if they didn't, I would imagine the echoing inside their head whenever they spoke would get really annoying.

True, but with the cadmium bubble down, people outside the range of the Cadmium bubble are now going as slow as anything that would have been inside the cadmium bubble. It's just a way to slow everything down instead of just slowing the stuff in the cadmium bubble down. There's very little difference between the two.

Wait, wha?

That first WoB is interesting. It seems to imply that the Shu-Korath religion isn't worshiping Devotion, which I always assumed it was.

Less bullets coming your way, I figure. If they can't shoot as fast, then you have less to deal with. I don't know, it makes sense to me. I don't know if I can explain it correctly.

Thanks! And I agree. I don't see why the formula for investiture on a single planet should dictate the formula of the shards. Really, the only connection between the two right now is the number 16. I hope to be able to get around to refining the Intents soon. Some of them are incredibly difficult to figure out. Another reason why I doubt my table is correct. For example: What can alter the physical realm without needing a source actively pursuing those changes, but also doesn't use time as a medium? Cause I don't know. lol

Wait, how is what a problem?