Lopens_Cousin

Yes that’s the quote, but did the Heralds *have* to leave them behind? Coppermind says that they did so because they didn’t feel worthy to carry them after abandoning the Oathpact. Nale and Ishar reclaiming their blades seem to support that there may not have been a requirement that they abandon them. Unless the reclaiming has had ramifications as yet unrevealed. Maybe the Stormfather saying they'd nearly become Heralds means that the Blades grant longevity or a degree of immortality. Hmmmm… maybe that’s how we get carryover characters between SA5 and SA6, if there’s a big time jump….

On recent read through of Oathbringer, and the Stormfather tells Dalinar that the Honorblades can do things that men don’t currently understand. Maybe this refers to the ability to influence/establish the Oathpact? What else could the Honorblades do besides grant Surgebinding? Has there already been some discussion or theorizing on this?

Murderizing?

So... this is my question. Do we know for certain that the splintering of Honor spontaneously create a whole bunch of new honorspren? Perhaps I have just missed/forgotten this in the text or WoB. If so, let's talk about the "current" honorspren. The current population of honospren would be made up of three groups: pre-splintering, splintering-created, and post-splintering*. If the splintering of Honor created a whole bunch of new honorspren, then I have more thoughts and questions: 1) It would be crazy tumultuous for the honorspren society to integrate a huge number of new (and I assume ignorant) individuals, perhaps that had something to do with the honorspren warring in Shadesmar? 2) It seems possible/probable that there is something additionally special or important about the splintering-created honorspren. Do they have more investiture than the pre- and post-splintering honorspren? Have we met any of these honorspren? Why would there be two ways for spren to be born (splintering and coalescing of investiture) if there was nothing significant about the difference? That seems like needless complexity. 3) *Can new Honorspren be born now that Honor has splintered? It seems like pre-splintering, new honorspren could be born by bits of Honor's investiture becoming sentient. It seems like splintering-created honorspren would have been born by the remaining available Honor-associated investiture coalescing, which would create a finite population. So... now that Honor has splintered, is some of his investiture still floating around and waiting to be formed into new honorspren? Even if that is the case, there is an eventual finite population. So... it seems to me that either no more honorspren can be born, or eventually no more honorspren can be born. That seems significant. ...maybe I'm just rabbit-holing a relatively mundane plot-point, but in my experience, there is a big juicy carrot at the bottom of most Cosmere Rabbit Holes.

So... if the gems break because the drain-fill cycle puts stress on the gem, and the impurities/imperfections are weak points that cause the gem to break... ...wouldn’t “perfect” gems, which have no impurities/imperfections, be unaffected by the drain-fill cycle, and thus not break as a result?

Yeah... ok... so this is kind of where the language is confusing... because I was using “splinter” specifically as related to Honor. Is there a WOB that Honor’s splintering created spren? Because you’ll remember that spren can reproduce... so there are possibly spren created post Honor’s splintering... or maybe... they can’t reproduce anymore? I just think it doesn’t make any sense that Honor splintered into spren... unless... the nahel spren are now different in some way... that the splintering of Honor created a new class of spren that have some unique qualities or abilities. I guess my main point is that, unless something is different about the spren after Honor splintered, it doesn’t make any sense or have any use to just say they are now splinters of Honor, and weren’t before. When Honor splintered... a ton of spren didn’t just *pop* into existence... did they? The Storm Father has changed a bit, e.g. he can share the visions. But I think the expansion of his understanding/perspective are due his bond with Dalinar, or as you say, his merging with Tanavasts cognitive shadow So... if there is a WOB that Honor’s splintering created spren... then I think there will be something unique and important about those spren... but have we met any of those? I don’t think so. Syl was created before Honor splintered.

I’m not sure that all the spren capable of forming the Nahel bond are splinters of honor. In fact, I’m not sure that any of them are actually splinters. Could the Storm Father be something other than a splinter? Like a cognitive shadow? Might be more clear when we see what is up with the other two spren associated with Bondsmiths. The only spren that I could sort of see being splinters of Honor, other than the Storm Father, are the Honorspren... but, as mentioned, they existed before Honor splintered... and, like most of the nahel spren, are manifestations of ideas, not splinters. So, It doesn’t seem like the spren actually NEED a shard or splinter to exist, and it also doesn’t seem like anything about the spren changed since Honor splintered. I haven’t thought enough about Dalinar’s Unity Moment... but, in general, are splinters physical(ish) things? Did Dalinar acquire anything that could be a splinter? I kind of thought that he was able to unite the realms because of his connection with the Storm Father. And what would have to happen, or what would the conditions be for Unity to be a new shard?

Maybe some types. At least a few of them conserve energy, or effects, and so are net neutral. Surgebinding uses investiture from the spirit realm and is changing or adding something to the system, potentially making it unstable... maybe? Surgebinding is different than investing on Scadrial and Nalthis (not sure about Sel). Investing on those planets has no, or net neutral effects on the physical realm.

I don’t think that’s accurate. The heralds founded the knights once they saw that surgebinders were manifesting (again)... or at the very least founded them to reduce how much rebuilding and relearning had to take place between Desolations. I think they were more worried that Desolations would destroy the planet, rather than surgebinding. But, you are right that the Oathes were meant to act as a safeguard on the power of surgebinding. I guess I interpreted that as they would be used for good, not tempered to reduce the damage to the planet. Yeah... the Surges would probably be the same, given it is still the same planetary system.... right? But even if they were different, they would still be physical forces... and “twisting” them, as Khriss suspects, would probably be real bad in high magnitude over a long time. I can can see the surgebinders on Ashyn really developing and pushing the extent of their powers. If they didn’t have Desolations to fight, they would be able to pursue technological (surgeological?) advancement. Like... “Hey! A floating City would be totes cool, right? Of course it would! Let’s do it! ......hey! Why is gravity all weird now? .... oh... oops”

Just finished OB and haven’t gone through all the posts here, so maybe it’s been addressed... but... In the Ars Arcanum section on Windrunning, Khriss writes about the Lashings: It seems pretty clear that this tells us how at least one form of surgebinding can mess up the physics of a planet, and if adhesion manipulates airpressure (rather than friction, for example) then accumulative perturbations in air pressure would certainly have the potential to make things wonky, planetwide. Especially if there were squires and such on Ashyn. Pretty sure 1000s - 10,000s of windrunners could mess some stuff up real bad. But I’m no physicist, and so I can’t develop the theory much farther than that though :/ I think this is a pretty obvious clue, and so probably has been discussed, if anyone can point me in that direction But maybe not. Any thoughts or discussion on how the other surges (like scary-arse division) work? I mean if Division nullifies (one or more types of) molecular bonds, or even (sweet jeezus) quantum forces... yikes. I remember a neat theory about Lightweavers possibly being able to manipulate microwaves and EM radiation in general. I think Rushu and other scholars will become more prominent characters going forward, as/if the ramifications of surgebinding become a bigger part of the plot line Anyway, clearly this has been made into a problem that the KR will have to resolve in some way. Lol... maybe “Unite Them” applies to both (all three?) means of surgebinding, and that somehow balances the effects on planetary physics... it seems that Unite Them applies to just about everything anyway xD..

So shall it be. You now also have an immortal cat who unrelentingly lays upon each page you attempt to read. I wish for all DC Movies to be well written, acted, and directed.

Has there ever been a WoB regarding whether he has considered doing a limited run of Leather-bound books?

Oh no...now I am, too... I've been little worried that Adolin's situation could turn into a big distraction. I just never saw Saddeas as that important to the greater arcs of SA. As @maxal says, Adolin is a foil, and probably this whole thing will be a conflict for Dalinar to work out... but that means that Dalinar is going to be tested (duh), and Adolin is, utimately, dispensable to arc. How hard is that test going to be? The fear is growing ... what about Shallan's connection with Adolin? It's too early for happiness to last, if it is attained at all, for main characters... Seeing how Shallan would react to that loss might almost be worth it...almost . Adolin was so fun to read in the later parts of WoR, oh man, it sucks when you figure out that some characters are more important to you than to the actual story I actually don't think that Dalinar will execute Adolin. It certainly seems that it will be a choice he will have to wrestle with, but I just can't believe he'd do it. That seems like something a Skybreaker would do, besides, we know that because of his own past, Dalinar is forgiving of past sins. However, I don't think that lets Adolin off. I don't have any theories, yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dalinar made the decision to spare Adolin, despite what he thinks it might cost Alethkar, and then somehow Adolin still dies. Perhaps he sacrifices himself, or just loses, in some battle with Eshonai...

Well...now that makes me wonder what role faith or belief plays in the Cosmere. Maybe that has something to do with Realmatics and the Spiritual Realm? I can't seem to recall belief playing any sort of (magical/Realmatic) role in any of the Cosmere works I've read (still saving some as a treat). I don't think we know many specifics, if any, about the Spiritual Realm, but this certainly seems to be a clue from Brandon. Gotta think about this some more before I start tossing theory around

Wa wa whaaaat?! Someone went back for their blade?!

I think you're probably right about Ialai joining an organization. She and Saddeus seemed to be too independent and self-serving to find joining something greater than themselves attractive. But... maybe grief, if she even grieves, would drive her too it. I remember a WoB where he talks about the danger of side characters and tangents in an Epic of this length, and that he gives himself the interludes to explore additional characters and then, ultimately, leave our imaginations to fill in the gaps. However, I don't know if Ialai will qualify as a character interesting enough for exposition in an interlude. Perhaps, but if not, she may be what you describe. Even so, I really think that network of spies will need some resolution in some form. It was only a few lines, but the seed was sown in my mind that there is a vast network of spies and assassins out there and only Ialai knows them all. I think I'll just always suspect everyone of being a spy (perhaps that's wise anyway) until we get some more info on what Ialai is going to do, or at least what becomes of her network. It may not be some big dramatic confrontation (e.g. Amaram and Kaladin), but I think it will have to be dealt with.

And so shall it be. However, henceforth your lovers will appear to you as Frau Farbissina, or Dr. Evil. You may choose. I would really love an unlimited celery supply.

Totally like the idea of Ialai seeking out the sky breakers, but think she has probably done some "illegal" stuff. Might get execution instead of revenge if she encounters Nalan. Pretty sure some of her assassinations weren't on the up and up with proper paperwork what problem would Adolin have with Shallan and Pattern? Adolin wasn't exactly in a self defense situation like Shallan, but I don't see her as being exactly horrified by what he did...

That may be true. It would all depend on what Ialai's motivations are and whether the Ghostbloods find them acceptable. We don't really know much about her, other than she has a crazy large spy network. That fact, alone, says to me that her role is not done, and that it may end up a significant one. That spy network may be enough to interest the Ghostbloods, too. I'm so excited to learn more about the Ghostbloods. I think that their story will offer a lot of information about the Cosmere and what is happening on a grander scale across all the worlds.

Do you think that Saddeus would have then seen them as beneath him? I can't imagine him throwing in with dark eyes. Especially in the case of the ghostbloods where eye color is not a symbol of status. He would have had to accept being equal, probably subordinate to Mraize. I mean, he's certainly not above using them, and I think it's possible he knew of some of the secret organizations, most likely the Sons, given how he was familiar with Amaram's nefariousness. But like I said, he only cared about consolidating power in Alethkar, maybe more of Roshar, but the Ghostbloods and Sons don't seem to care specifically about power and I don't think their goals would have aligned. Ialai def has some ghostblood potential, though. It's not clear what she cares about, and if she just gets off on the intrigue, then the Ghostbloods will probably seem very attractive to her.

I think Sadeas was too much into the "here and now" of Alethkar to be involved in a secret society with some greater agenda. He summarily dismisses Dalinar's quest for some greater good and thinks only of consolidating power in terms of the conventional structure of Alethi society. He's a schemer, for certain, but his schemes are bounded by designs on the princedoms. He doesn't think about any evil or turmoil to come, no reason to unite Alethkar other than to grab power. Perhaps he would have been involved in a society if he thought it would grant him opportunity to gain power, but I don't think he would have been able to accept what he would see as the mysticism those societies believe in. He probably didn't even really believe in the Heraldic Epochs. Sadeas was a powermonger with a simple conception of the world. Ghostbloods and Sons of Honor would, I think, have seemed silly to him.

This made me think of something that had bothered me in WoR. Didn't Dalinar bond Taln's honourblade? Wasn't that the blade he used to trap Amaram. If so, shouldn't he have been able to surgebind once he held/bonded it? I was confused because 1) Dalinar didn't invest stormlight instinctively when in danger and 2) the Storm Father called it an abomination (or something like that) and commanded Dalinar to release it. Was the Storm Father's disdain for the blade because it was a bond-broken spren, or because, like Syl, he doesn't like that it can be used without a bond? Can someone clear this up for me?

I'm really interested to see what happens with Renarin and the Truthwatchers, mainly because WoR said that no one knew what the heck they did, so I figure it's got to be awesome. Were the Truthwatchers one of the Orders with only a few (maybe even just one???) members? I remember the Bondsmiths were only 3 or so b/c of their spren, but I thought there was another order that was really small. I don't know about Renarin condemning/confronting Adolin, but I do think something confrontational will happen between Renarin and Shallan. We don't know a whole lot about the Lightweavers and even less (basically nothing) about the Truthwatchers, but the significance of Lies to the Cryptics and Shallan's disdain for Renarin make me think about a conflict between Truth and Lies. minor point: Kaladin didn't already know the words, did he? Syl says he as to find them, i.e. figure it out.

Granted. It's Tuesday. I wish for a perfect memory.

Just finished WoR for the second time and was struck by an incredible irony, maybe even hypocrisy, regarding Nale. I mean, he sits there and gushes over Szeth's allegiance to his word and says that keeping one's word is the only thing beautiful in the world. Umm...hello? You BROKE your OATHpact. Maybe his warped crusade is somehow an attempt to make up for this?