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On 19/06/2016 at 10:36 AM, esamitch said:

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I think it's because Parshendi have so many different forms, and a Parshman/dullform too, so it's overwhelming to pick which type, and then design it so it matches the book description if you want to be accurate about it.  That's pretty much why I just stick to drawing Stormform/Warform because it's the best described.  The glowing eyes are pretty cool too. 

I've so far been drawing Eshonai as a giant bipedal alien-looking thing.

...

I normally draw her in blue too, since it's the colour she's most commonly mentioned in-canon to wear.  I was planning on drawing her in blue for this picture, but I decided to colour with red lighting and blue somehow felt a bit off, too normal.  So I made pinkShallan to show that this is her crazy side, the repressed killer who is the opposite of happy blueShallan. 

The alternative view is that she is wearing blue, but the glowing red light from her Patternsword washes it out.

Why js there an open wound in the back? Wouldn't shardblades just pass through and kill her? Great artwork! Also great title!

It wasn't supposed to be an open wound, but a tear in the back of Tyn's duster coat.  Shardblades don't cut living flesh, but can cut fabric, like Szeth's Honorblade on Kaladin's uniform sleeve during the assassination attempt.

It looks red because I messed with the lighting levels to make the Patternblade look glowy and it oversaturated the surrounding colours - but I didn't actually draw any blood. 

I am happy to see that someone looked at the details though.

....

One thing I don't understand is why Dalinar is so ashamed of being the Blackthorn.   Even if he is above that behaviour these days, there's still no reason to feel shame for the things he did when he was young, and he's not that person anymore.   He should view it in context - 20 years ago, when they were uniting Alethkar, Gavilar and Sadeas did the same things he did, and so did the other Highprinces.   If you put it in context of Alethkar's militaristic culture, what he did would be praised.  It's like the Shin not walking on rocks - breaking with tradition would be horrifying and not something normal people would even consider.  

 

“Because we were wrong,” Dalinar said, narrowing his eyes. “Gavilar, Sadeas, and I were wrong to do as we did all those years ago.”

Wit seemed genuinely surprised. “You unified the kingdom, Dalinar. You did a good work, something that was sorely needed.”

“This is unity?” Dalinar asked, waving a hand back toward the scattered remnants of the feast, the departing lighteyes. “No, Wit. We failed. We crushed, we killed, and we have failed miserably.” He looked up. “I receive, in Alethkar, only what I have demanded. In taking the throne by force, we implied—no we screamed—that strength is the right of rule. If Sadeas thinks he is stronger than I am, then it is his duty to try to take the throne from me. These are the fruits of my youth, Wit. It is why we need more than tyranny, even the benevolent kind, to transform this kingdom. That is what Nohadon was teaching. And that is what I’ve been missing all along.”

Chapter 67, "Spit and Bile", WoR.

Oh Dalinar.  He is unredeemably stubborn and perpetually blind.  If he and Gavilar had tried to take Alethkar any other way but by force, it would have failed.  Because that is Alethi culture, and Highprinces are inherently selfish children.  He is thinking this by the last third of WoR but in WoK he should have been taught his lesson about leading by honour and nobility of purpose.  Did he learn nothing from The Tower?  

 

“Do not sorrow,” Wit said. “It is an era for tyrants. I doubt this place is ready for anything more, and a benevolent tyrant is preferable to the disaster of weak rule. Perhaps in another place and time, I’d have denounced you with spit and bile. Here, today, I praise you as what this world needs.”

Wit sees the big picture and Dalinar doesn't.  I seriously hope that part of his development in Oathbringer addresses this because otherwise I will throw something at the wall.

The letter of the law can easily be twisted if you have the right law scholars and the right contracts.  What does "ALL of his Shards" mean?  If the Shards Adolin won were formally bestowed to the Kholin family, and the use of the Shards were contractually signed over to the Kholin Army generals, then the letter of the law would have to accept that they Shards are not Adolin's.  It really depends on how Alethi law defines "owning Shards" as there seems to be many ways for individuals and families to own them - like Helaran and the Skybreaker Shards, Jakamav and the family Plate.  And how willing the letter of the law is to screw with Adolin, using Nalan-style loopholing.   I would personally say that the owner of a Shard is the first priority user.   Most of the time it will be the Shardbearer, but occasionally it will be a Highprince.   If two people called for the use of one set of Plate at the same time, who would it go to?  

Elhokar sets the letter of the law, and can grant pardon if he feels like it - though giving Adolin a wristslap might make the other Highprinces consider why they even bother with a king.   He still wouldn't go unreasonably harsh on Adolin.   Dalinar said that he would make an enemy of Elhokar if he executed Kaladin for insulting Amaram in the arena; what would Dalinar do if it was son and heir?  Elhokar knows he's weaker than his uncle and now Dalinar is a Bondsmith.  Elhokar is capable of perceiving things, when he's drunk at least.  He's nearsighted as the rest but now and then he can see the big picture, like what a terrible ruler he is and that he needs Dalinar's help if he wants to hold the kingdom together in a Desolation.  Even if he does lose control and gives a harsh sentence (though we will all be tired of him learning nothing over two books), he may settle for a lesser sentence, as he has done before.   It would be a cop-out but the Highprinces might accept delayed punishment until after the immediate catastrophe is done with, using Sadeas and the duel in one year's time as precedent.   I counted it up and out of the ten Highprincely houses, Roion and Sadeas are dead, Aladar and Sebarial support House Kholin.  If it comes to a tied vote, Elhokar would back the Kholins.

When was the last time Shardbearer fought Shardbearer on the battlefield, with the exception of fighting Eshonai?   Was it killing off the handful of Parshendi Shardbearers one by one in the Vengeance Pact war?  Was it before the War, when the Highprinces had constant border skirmishes?     Since most depictions of Shards in battle in the books are of Shardbearers one-shotting Parshendi and cutting open chrysalises, and not doing anything putting them in danger of dying, I think most of us have got the impression that Shardplate is almost invincible in terms of damage resistance.  It's not a bad thing, but it makes it hard to judge how severely the person inside the Plate is affected when they get thrown around.  

 

Adolin’s armorers came over to help him remove his Plate, but he waved them away. It was bad enough to show her his sloppy hair, plastered to his head from being in the helm. His clothing underneath—a padded uniform—would look awful.

Chapter 53, "Perfection"

If Plate absorbed all blows perfectly, why would padding be worn underneath?   Does it rattle around when it gets hit?   Adolin comes out of the fight with Eshonai at the end of WoR bruised and bloody, but is that from the impact of being hit by her Blade, or from a blow that cracked the Plate?   I doubt that Brandon will give exact parameters for the strength of Shardplate, because from what we've read, it's as strong as The Plot needs it to be.  And that is why Renarin doesn't get brain damaged jumping off the roof headfirst, since doing that with a high-tech impact absorbent foam core motorcycle helmet IRL would save your skull but snap your neck.

Wow, you picked up on all the times Adolin is nervous.  I searched for "nervous" on my eReader edition of WoR and found 7 pages of results.  I wasn't expecting that.  What is it supposed to show?  Is it to contrast against how Dalinar and Renarin are proper and controlled in public, while Adolin is the nervous one, but behind closed doors, they go crazy during highstorms?  Is it to show that Adolin is an emotional person and foreshadow that he had a lot of little worries building up that will make him do something extreme?   I suppose it's something every reader should interpret as they will.  Maybe it's just Brandon trying to make his characters more relatable by picking out some minor flaws and handing them out.

I think Adolin would still love Dalinar even if Dalinar was Blackthorn-mode or highstorm-deluded crazy.  Adolin just has few people in his life that he is actually close to, people that can actually be relied on.  And if Dalinar leaves for retirement, he leaves a power vacuum that he expects Adolin to fill.   And because Adolin is more like his mother than his father, he doesn't want to be the Kholin Highprince.  He doesn't want power.  His mother could have gotten a more powerful match - if she had one out of three Shards in Iri, likely she could have become an Iri princess (if she wasn't already) instead of married to foreigner younger son.   

 

“Wit,” Dalinar found himself asking, “am I a tyrant?”

Wit cocked an eyebrow, and seemed to be looking for a clever quip. A moment later, he discarded the thought. “Yes, Dalinar Kholin,” he said softly, consolingly, as one might speak to a tearful child. “You are.”

“I do not wish to be.”

“With all due respect, Brightlord, that is not quite the truth. You seek for power. You take hold, and let go only with great difficulty.”

That's why I thought it was important for Dalinar to stay sane - Adolin has responsibility, but he lacks confidence.  Maybe he doubts his ability to lead and protect everyone.  It's a shame that Adolin never got a PoV scene in WoR after the folding bridge was sabotaged, when he jumped to rescue Dalinar and let Shallan fall into the chasm.  It would have shed a lot of light on the matter.

Physical abuse like Kaladin's, or being surrounded by physical abuse like Shallan isn't necessary to crack a soul and start the Nahel bond.  Shallan described it in the chasm of seeing people hurt, and wanting to take the pain from them.   I don't know if wanting to protect people, or their gratitude is enough to attract a spren, but who would Renarin need to help or defend if this was the case?   I know the orders and their roles are different, but none of them are selfish and there's always some aspect of doing a greater good in their Oaths.  For Shallan it was keeping her brothers from going off the deep end.   What does Renarin do?   This is why Renarin being silent about his abilities for a thousand pages and then suddenly stepping out from behind a pillar to drop a line at a dramatically convenient moment was a major This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules point for readers.  Yes, you could add the clues in about the the writing on the wall, and the glasses, but to me it was like adding 1 + 1 while Brandon keeps saying the answer is 3.

Adolin has a reputation as a flirt - how does he do it without blushing?   Does he just look at girls and their sisters until they notice him looking, and either slap him or ask him on a date?   Someone who is afraid to appear vulnerable is someone who wouldn't go around asking girls on dates non-stop, because there is nothing more embarrassing than being rejected in public and dumped by 20 different girls.  Maybe he divorces his feelings from courting and just does it mechanically and out of obligation, as is normal for noble arranged marriages in any universe, and that is why he appears so callous with them.   I mean, who investigates an assassination attempt while you've got a girl on your arm?  It's like the Alethi equivalent of being on your phone during a dinner date.   

You have to wonder what Kaladin's experience level is.  Maybe lighteyes and nobles are held to a different standard of outward morality than darkeyes.  A darkeye's "honour" on his or her wedding day wouldn't matter as much as a lighteyes', when people must be sure for the sake of succession.   Adolin has asked Kaladin for girl advice in the past - would he ask again for more detailed answers?   Adolin has already confessed that he's a noob when it comes to the ways of love, so Kal knows that Adolin's outward personality is just a shell.    I would have a lot of laughs if Adolin asked Kaladin to write down a glyph poem for Shallan, because the Ardents have gotten into the  habit of dodging around the next corner when they see him coming.

To Danlan

She tells me humility is a virtue,

I say I see it none other but you.

I'm told that other girls are cleverer than her,

To find one I'd have to search all Alethkar.

Though I am known to give no guarantees,

Here I chance upon an opportunity.

Since Danlan has appeared upon the Plains,

This hopeful heart leaps eager at her name.

I think half decent is the best way to describe his poetry.  Any scholar or real poet would be able to see that it's rough and unrefined, but with a naive sort of amateur charm to it.  And it's written to court girls, so quality doesn't even matter, it's the gesture that counts.  If Adolin is the kind of guy who likes art museums and theatre, then it's not hard to imagine that he's had fashionable poetry read to him.  Once you've read or heard enough to understand the structure and style, it's not very hard to write something that sounds about right to those who haven't.

...

If Zahel came to Roshar 15 years ago, Adolin would have started training with him from age 8.  So that would be 8 years' worth of sword training with an immortal swordsman, enough time to be certain if someone is a polished turd or genuinely talented.   If Dalinar never felt young, holding other people to his standards, no matter their age, sounds like something he would do.   The young Blackthorn from the SA3 preview chapter was in the front line of a battle without Shardplate or Shardblade, and he got his Blade at age 20, so he must have been around 19 or so.  If he could do that, then pre-Vengeance Dalinar would not worry about Adolin's safety too much in a stylised arena duel with judge-referees who stop the fight after 3 pieces of Shardplate are broken.   It's pretty strange how different Adolin is from Dalinar, but then WoB says Adolin takes after his mother, whom Navani has described as not very smart but nice and charming.   If Adolin needs a way to soothe his emotional issues, Renarin should lend him his little metal box.

Forcing the return of Shards really depends on what kind of deal the "giving away" really was, like a conditional loan - you can use my weapons as long as you can fight for me.   I would think that giving away Shards free and clear is very rare, just like winning them in duels, and only happens in inherited Shards.  And if The Rules say that Adolin has to give up his Shards, then it would follow the letter of the law to rid Adolin of his and allow him to accept a returned set.  When did Alethi care about following the spirit of the law as well as the letter?  Even the Skybreakers don't care about that.  In any case, the person doing the judgments would be Adolin's own cousin Elhokar, who wouldn't like weakening his own family but would be boxed into it by the Highprinces.    Adolin's Shards, in any case, would then be forfeited to the crown, and Elhokar could easily add them to the training roster and swap out Gavilar's Plate and Blade to give to Adolin.  Which bypasses all drama about pressuring current Kholin Army Shardbearers or winning more duels wagering Renarin's Shards.  I think everyone is expecting Adolin's fall from grace to be a far fall, but he's a prince and an heir, and Alethkar, like most feudal societies, run on nepotism.  Shardbearers in the warcamps are all related to their highprinces, and the Veden highprince Valam's bastard son is given an important position even though having a darkeyed mother should have made him a weird freak that village kids throw rocks at.

Adolin betting Renarin's Shards makes me wonder if Dalinar knows about it.  He wouldn't approve, since the Codes would say that if an officer should wear his uniform and shouldn't drink alcohol because he must be prepared for battle at any moment, he definitely shouldn't risk losing his weapons.   But he's not in the gossip loop since he's a social pariah who thinks God is talking to him, and I don't think he thought while making plans about duelling that Adolin would be risking any Shards but his own.  Adolin, when you think about it, does the kind of stupid things that people rail on Kaladin for.   Since WoB said it wasn't Odium controlling him, and Wit is the only known allomancer who can Riot emotions so far, it's all him.  

There are ways to beat Shardbearers without having to face them in open combat, if you fight smart and don't bother with honourable tactics.  If you are not a Shardbearer yourself, and find yourself facing one, it's probably better to have a smart plan where you don't have to be in sword's reach of one.    Shardplate is one single piece with the eyeslits as the only opening, but Adolin says the weak points are the front and the back pieces, which make the rest of Plate too heavy to bear if they are smashed and the Stormlight is lost.  An arrow to the eye would work, and so would dropping a Shardbearer off a ledge, like Eshonai or when Elhokar is climbing the rocksin the chasmfiend hunt - he drops 30 feet and Stormlight starts leaking.  Dropping something heavy on them would also work, like Szeth lashing a balcony onto Gavilar.  It would pin them down and give you enough time to stab them in the eye.  So a Shardbearer is invincible in a flat open field, but inside a building, where there are lots of hiding places and the ceilings are too low to wave a Blade around, a normal person would have an advantage.  Which is something that is completely new to Adolin when Szeth busts through the wall and he spends the rest of the evening buzzing on Rosharan caffeine because he's too afraid to sleep.

I noticed that paragraph about Adolin how felt uneasy about highstorms and looked forward to the Weeping, but never read that much into it.  You have to wonder why Brandon put that in, since he usually has a purpose or some sort of deeper significance for the things he writes (unless it's so cool it doesn't need a justification).  Is it because highstorms are something you can't challenge and fight, let alone win against?  

Hm, I have no idea how much Renarin knows or has observed about romantic relationships.  If Shshshsh died when he around 9 years old, he would have been too young to remember or understand much about it how Dalinar acted around his mother.  But even if he has no experiences with courting or seeing it happen, he still notices that Adolin doesn't act the same with the girls he courts as he acts around his brother.  Possibly because he doesn't really treat them like real people, but interchangeable arm candy who respond on cue to compliments about their prettiness.   If Renarin doesn't see that Adolin is apathetic and distant with girls because he doesn't want to share his inner vulnerable side, Renarin can still see that he's not being as careful and caring with them as he is with his own family.   I think one of the reasons why readers get annoyed with Renarin is that his family is completely supportive and loving, and yet he still turned out to be broken, which means it has to be internal and emotional with what we know of the material luxury princes get.   If Elhokar is Dalinar's Tien, then Renarin is Adolin's.    

And Adolin does kiss free hands, and doesn't flinch away when girls touch or hold his arm, like Shallan when they were at their first highstorm viewing wine lounge date.

 

"Thanks," he said, rising, doing up the buttons on his coat.  He kissed Danlan's freehand, waved to the others, and trotted out onto the street.

Chapter 58, WoK.

He has no problem with kissing Navani on the cheek, or her touching him with her gloved/sleeved safehand, which means he has no inherent fear of physical contact.   It could be that he's allergic to PDA and years of being lectured on acting like a proper prince and following the Codes gave him insta-kneejerk blushing reflexes.   Would you think he'd have the same reaction if Shallan kissed him on the cheek inside the carriage (with no Kaladin) while he was dropping her off after a date?  If that situation wouldn't make him blush, then the prospect of beling alone at night with a woman would be something he'd look forward to rather than something that completely terrifies him.

In my experience, people in the early twenties have rarely had serious long-term relationships, or are even looking for them.  Society doesn't expect them to, but it's expected that you know how things work at that age, and have had the minimal amount of practice at it to be socially functional.   Brandon writing characters who have experienced neither long-term relationships nor short-term intimacy but somehow manage to end up with both in the form of one person with the same qualities is a trademark of his.   Did Dalinar ever explain why he wanted Adolin to choose a wife for love, or was it just assumed that he allowed it because his own wife was a love-match?  Because in a feudal world where there is no divorce (otherwise Lin Davar's second wife would have left) letting a first son choose his own wife is very unusual and indulgent.  If Adolin had been settled with a betrothed at age 19 or 20,  he would have been spared the whole confidence destroying parade of revolving-door relationships, and might have even got close to the girl since they wouldn't be able to dump each other so easily.  

Anyone who is shy and inexperienced at 23 does not make it obvious that they are.  if men are men, no matter what universe they're on, making suggestive jokes about it is normal, and you have to join in without showing your discomfort if you don't want to be teased about it.  It just occured to me that if Adolin's "friends" tried to joke him about it, his response would be "I totally have a betrothed, she's from Jah Keved and she's on a boat here...which was supposed to be here a month ago but she's still coming, I swear!".  The Veden betrothed very coincidentally mirrors what the ambiguously existent Canadian girlfriend is in American high school movies where people drink out of red plastic cups.  And Shards would translate very well to varsity letter jackets.

I've always wondered - what type and weight of paper do you use for your ink drawings?  Does it leak through on the back?   I suddenly feel inspired to pick up traditional media again.

I think Adolin has better poetry skills than that!  He's not amazing, but he can tell what style of poetry is fashionable and what is not, even if he abuses cliches and is formulaic and is completely unoriginal in his subject matter.  Nothing is more romantic and perpetually fashionable than complimenting a girl's looks by comparing it to nature.

 

To Janala

Never have I seen hair that flows like Janala's,
Midnight's cloak drawn in silken streams like no other's.
Never have my eyes met eyes so catching as Janala's,
And lashes that stir the breath with windspren flutters.
Never have I sought regard as I now seek Janala's,
For now my poor stricken heart sighs for no one but hers.
 

I'm too lazy to write ketek poetry, but then again, it would probably be blasphemous to write about girls with holy palindromes.

....

Adolin was 17 at the time the Vengeance Pact happened, so that was before Dalinar accepted the Codes as a lifestyle, which said that in times of war, officers shouldn't be allowed to duel because that risks injury or death when they are necessary for the war effort.  So maybe Dalinar wouldn't have liked it, but it was a time of peace, and Adolin was defending the family honour from insults.  In the past, Blackthorn Dalinar killed people who insulted him.  So there was probably no order against it, and Dalinar wouldn't have thought to give it because no one would think Adolin would be stupid enough to wager the Plate he only got a few months before.   Seriously, when you put the timeline into perspective, Adolin sure does a lot of things without thinking about the consequences.  That's exactly why the 4-on-1 duel happened.  

Moash, I think, was given land in the Kholin princedom, which makes the Kholins his direct overlords.  I'm not sure if the Princedoms work the same way as federated monarchies work on Earth, but if they do, then families who hold their land independently and swear allegiance to their overlord, like Amaram's, have more freedom in governance and exercising power than direct subordinates.    It's interesting to note that in some translations of WoK, the Highprinces are called Archdukes.   Well, whatever happens, we can safely assume that Moash's land will get confiscated and the former Shardbearers who lost against Adolin will be demoted and no one will ever lend them Shards again unless there are strict conditions and the ownership is made clear.  I don't think the Kholins would force a Shardbearer in their army to hand their Shards back, as you can't force Shardbearer to do anything -as Dalinar said, there are very few options when dealing with Shardbearer criminals.  They could pressure another Bearer to give the Shards to Adolin because he is the best and it is necessary for the war, if they follow the Codes and don't act completely selfishly all the time like other nobles *cough*.  I still thought it was pretty rude of Adolin to bet Renarin's Shards, especially Dalinar's Plate, on duels without asking.  I know Dalinar gave permission to start duelling again, and Renarin has no training and doesn't even like Shards.  But after reading hundreds of pages of how important the identity of Shardbearer is to themselves and society, and how close some people feel to their Shards, seeing Adolin do that left a bad taste in my mouth.   I even felt a bit of cringe when he held Salinor (?) down with his foot and pulled the gemstone from his Blade and crushed it in front of the arena audience.  He's obviously doing it for the show but I found it pretty jarring when compared to his later personality.

If you're used to reading books or watching movies depicting people who train realistically with medieval combat weapons, reading how Shardbearers fight gives plenty of moments when all you can say is WHAT.  I actually sketched Shardplate on paper to show a friend, and he said that an opponent with a rapier or fencing foil could stab a Shardbearer in Plate in the eye and instakill.  I told him that Shardplate turns clear from the inside, so there's better peripheral vision, Plate gives you superspeed, and Blades are long and light enough that a man with a metal sword wouldn't be able to get close.  He told me that sounded like it was from a video game.   So yeah, dropping down from Plate-enhancement and instant Blade summoning back into normal territory is a massive paradigm shift when you have to start being aware and afraid that any guy with a sidesword (pretty much every lighteyes) can pose a serious threat to your life.

Do you think Adolin offing Sadeas was the first time he ever killed a human?  I don't think there's been any mention of him fighting to kill outside the battlefield, and they were all Parshendi who bleed orange, and those two times with Szeth were massive failures.  The problem with Adolin being a mostly laid back guy who does crazy unpredictable things 10% of the time is that they feel like they just came out of nowhere.   Most of the time he gets angry or emotional and does something, nothing bad really happens as a consequence and they are considered relatively insignificant in-universe.   Things like smacking Kaladin in the training arena when Zahel says you're supposed to control yourself in Plate around regular soldiers.   It was stupid, but Kaladin can heal so it's all right.   Unless you have analysed Adolin's character all the way through, the times where he does an extreme crazy thing is completely unexpected and at odds with your surface impression of his personality.

Renarin is the type of person who would have a neatly organised mind, and thinks in cause and effect, action and consequence.  That's why he thinks before he speaks, that's why his body language and facial expressions are described as "measured" and "careful".   It matches what we know of the Truthwatchers, if his future visions are more like mathematical statistical projections like Taravangian's.  Which is interesting, since their gifts originate more from Cultivation  than Honor.   When Adolin's emotions get the better of him, it's like an outlier in Renarin's tidy data sets.   Renarin and Dalinar both love Adolin and don't like to see him go crazyangry, but each of them have their own reasons for disliking it, other than caring about him a lot.  Dalinar sees and regrets his younger self.   And Renarin notices something odd about Adolin's dating failures that Adolin is blind to, is because he put together cause and effect.  The effect, the girl leaving, is always the same, and the cause is always something different, like looking at girl's sister or double booking a dinner date.  But Renarin notices there is a pattern and an underlying reason (which is what you stated about protecting his fragile inner ego from rejection), even if he doesn't have the social graces to put it into words and tell his brother.

Adolin is stated not to have trouble holding girl's freehands and kissing them on the hand, which means he is not completely unable to touch a woman.   If you are close enough, or forward enough, to kiss a girl on the hand as a farewell, it's normal for them to be able to kiss you on the cheek if they like you.   In IRL Earth formal/old-fashioned etiquette, a bachelor kissing an unmarried woman's hand directly is considered naughty, as he's supposed to kiss the air above her hand.  So I don't know what's up with Adolin other than a contrived plot point  making him endearingly equal in relationship intimacy to Shallan.   And I have to wonder if the 2 months spent in spearmen's barracks was like a non-stop version of Renarin cleaning bowls for Bridge Four.  They were awkward and quiet the whole time, never being able to relax and always watching they were saying.  Eventually they got comfortable with him, though I still can't imagine Bridge Four inviting Renarin to the tavern for a drink.

Brandon has a habit of making his characters pure to the point of disbelief.  If you've finished Bands of Mourning, Steris (Wax's fiance) at age ~27 was so pure and innocent that she was reading a book on anatomy to prepare for her wedding.   I wish there were more authors that wrote characters who have realistic troubles with being inexperienced and awkward -in that way-, where it isn't just played for humour.  In fact, I can't really think of any male fictional characters who are like that over the age of 20.  

The reason why people don't understand is because they're not as invested in one character as you.  People who like the SA/Cosmere enjoy the works and expanded universe as a whole, instead of one single character, and the concept of fairness within the universe is not something that is ever considered.  Because they see the Cosmere as Brandon's artistic vision, and they trust Brandon's decisions as the God Beyond as to how he tells his story.  Because in the end, it does all come down to Brandon and you really can't apply fair or unfair to what is ultimately artistic license.

Yeah, it's harsh, but the big picture is that Brandon sells entertainment and it's a measure of his skill that he can write characters that people can get invested in, whether it's Adolin or Vasher or that Rithmatist kid.  Everyone has pet characters like Dobby or Ned Stark but if seeing bad things happen to them makes you ragequit, then it means you have your blinkers on and you should take them off if you want to continue reading.   But I would think that Brandon's writing style would not let someone die horribly unless it was necessary for the plot or they deserved it.

Jacob Black is the werewolf from Twilight and what made many long-time fans mad was that in Breaking Dawn, he fell in love with Bella's infant daughter, and that the reason why he liked Bella in the first place was explained as him being unconsciously attracted to her ovaries.  I mean, This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules kind of ending is that?   Many Team Jacob fans felt betrayed at that, but imho it's better to have read a book and liked a character even he gets a horrible ending rather than never read the book in the first place. 

Journey before destination, they say.

...

If someone can stop you from doing what you want with your Shards (like forbidding duels with wagers) then I would say that you don't fully own them.  It's like Kaladin giving away his Shards to Moash.  Since Adolin allowed it, he relinquished his claim.  But I'm not sure if the Shards given to Teleb and Captain Khal had the same deal, or if they were on conditional loan by House Kholin.  Roion and Aladar lend their Shards out to other bearers, but they still own them, and can presumably choose a new bearer when their current gets injured or too old.  It would be dangerous to just give Shards away with no strings, see Moash. It'd be too easy for a Shardbearer given Shards by their patron House to be tempted to join another warcamp by the promise of more lands and a bump from Fourth Dahn to Third Dahn.  Dalinar talked to Amaram about switching sides from Sadeas' Princedom to his, so it must happen.  Shardbearers are too valuable, especially for gemhunting, when you need a Blade to cut the chrysalis and any extras can hold off the Parshendi.  It would have been pretty rare for a foreign woman to have a Shard.  Alethkar and Jah Keved have the most, with the other countries having around 1-5.  Maybe that is why Dalinar courted Shshshsh when he went travelling, if he didn't have his Plate by then.   Owning or inheriting Shards must make someone valuable marriage material...another bit of weirdness for Adolin.   And Renarin still has his dead Shard by the end of WoR, in the battle during the Everstorm.  He used it unsuccessfully to open the Oathgate.   And even if he keeps it, Dalinar's Shardblade that was switched from Taln's Honorblade is still out there, if they can find it from where he threw it off the roof.  

You have to use different styles of fighting for Shardblade compared to conventional weapons, just like you have to learn in and out of Shardplate.  Shardblades are much lighter than other weapons their size, and can cut through anything, so they're swung with minimal force to conserve energy.  That is why Adolin can use his finger push a Blade away in a duel, and why Dalinar and Kaladin can pull off the lastclap.  Also, Adolin doesn't fight on horseback.  He uses his horse to get him to the plateau battlezone, but gets off when the fighting actually happens - Shardbearers fight at the front and and if he was on horseback surrounded on three sides by the enemy, they'd kill the horse quickly and pull him out of the saddle since there's not enough room to move.   Fighting with a Shardblade means you aim for the neck or spine to sever the soul.  Fighting with regular metal swords means slashing until your opponent gives up or runs out of blood.  I doubt Adolin will go Shardless if he's stripped of his current set, but if he does, it will teach him to be a better strategist-tactician and be more careful instead of taking stupid risks.  

Oh, Adolin.  The next book will be a bumpy ride for him if they find his knife with A.K. engraved all over.  He realised that the blood had to be hidden, and he used his Shardblade to cut his chalk marks off the wall.  He threw Sadeas' Shardblade out the window.    I'm still undecided at how panicked and dazed he was, because, tome, Adolin is a bit of a wildcard because he can be an unreliable narrator at times.   He's not prone to deeper introspection, especially if doing so will harm his ego.   He reminds me of Shallan in that way - if their train of thoughts will lead to an unwanted revelation, they will stop before they get there.   Adolin doesn't know what keeps going wrong in his relationships, and Shallan doesn't think about where Pattern came from, because she must have been broken before she killed her mother.

 

"It wasn't his fault that his relationships often burned out quickly.  Well, technically, this time it was his fault.  But it wasn't usually.  This was just an oddity."

WoK, chapter 12

To me, the reader, Renarin kind of just fades into the background.  He's there and gets the occasional brief side mention to establish that he's present in the scene, but then the narrator forgets he's there unless he says or does something.  So in-universe, he's must be forgotten about or ignored a lot, but since he's perceptive he gets to watch everyone and establish a library of normal conversational responses and socially acceptable behaviour.  Since he isn't intuitively neurotypical, he has to watch and learn to figure out how socialising works.  If you ever grew up as a weird kid who moved to a new school where you didn't know anyone, it's standard to watch for a while to see who is friends with who and where you can sit to eat lunch.  Renarin has been doing this his entire life.   He may not understand how emotions work for normies, but he sees what the reactions to standard responses are - Question A must be answered with Reply A, and when you use Reply H instead of A people get upset with you.  So I think he noticed that there's something wrong about Adolin and dating girls, and tells him to treat them better.  I would say it's a combination of him caring for his brother and also not liking it when Adolin gets emotional and starts acting erratically, because the library of social cues and responses goes out the window at that point.

I read Outlander...about five years ago.  But I still remember Jamie saying that he may be a virgin, but he wasn't a monk.  And as a soldier/outlaw he'd been around the block a few times, even if he never stopped at any of the buildings.   On Roshar, horses are rare and cremlings and skyeels probably don't do things the way they are done on Earth.  But surely there must be some education on these things, and soldiers will find their way into making various raunchy and euphemistic jokes.   You can't bunk with darkeyed spearmen for 2 months and not hear a single bawdy song.   Adolin, at age 23, blushes from a peck on the cheek.   He's as emotionally developed -in that way- as Susebron the God-King, and there was good reason for Susebron to be like that, as he was locked in a palace full of priests his entire life.

There is another weird thing I remembered:  Elhokar at Adolin's age was already married or formally betrothed to Aesudan.  Elhokar is 27-28 in WoK; therefore his father Gavilar had been away during his adolescent years, chasing down the highprinces.  It is possible that it was Navani who taught him the Facts About Life and arranged his marriage, and Adolin didn't get any of that knowledge because Dalinar.  But Elhokar is a spoiled manchild princeling and he still managed to father a child.   I wouldn't say Dalinar is "love shy".  He's just overly fixated on propriety and dating your brother's widow is not acceptable by Vorin rules and that is why it makes him uncomfortable.  In the past, he went on a foreign holiday and came back with a wife (who had a Shard so she must have been a noble lady with lots of other suitors), so he must have some effective courting skills.  I'm surprised Shallan is so forward, since her childhood never had any loving marriages or functional romances.  She had less experience with boys than Adolin with girls, if you count Kabsal and the Thaylen sailor Yalb (?) as flirting with her.   Maybe it's a Veden cultural quirk to be more accepting of emotional outbursts like Lin Davar yelling at dinner guests or the bastard messenger, where it would make you a social pariah in Alethkar.   I did notice that Eylita lived with Shallan's brother Balat in the Davar mansion even though they were just engaged.  That would be very improper in Alethkar, where Shallan said she didn't want to live in the Kholin warcamp if she was dating Adolin.

Adolin mentioned at one point that his ex-gf Janala liked poetry, and that he should compose poetry for her so she'd un-dump him.  How can you read and write poetry if you can't read and write?  Is he making the ardents compose love poems to the girls he is courting?  Is he a poetry genius who can make up poems in his head and recite them from memory?  Either way is pretty hilarious.

...

Well the whole 10 book story arc is more than just one character it's all the characters interacting and bumping along like billiard balls while Odium pokes the cue in now and then.   Adolin does things, and he develops, but it's off-screen because the things Kaladin does are more relevant in moving The Plot from point A to point B.  

Adolin acts as the "normal guy" in the series so far, even though he was dead in WoK Prime and non-existent in the first draft.  His being normal is why he can't have flashbacks, and why his character progression won't have the depth of development that everyone else has when their focus books show they go from broken to functional to reforged. 

Just be happy he exists!  That is what I told the people who were upset about Jacob Black in the ending of Breaking Dawn.

...

You're too focused on one character rather than the story as a whole.  Adolin is a supporting character whose purpose is to provide a foil to Kaladin and Dalinar, as a human yardstick to show their character development.  He's pretty much the token normal guy in a cast full of broken people.  If he was broken from the beginning, he'd be less likable.

...

The Heralds and Renarin are considered main characters too but I didn't want to go by the official rating because they've barely appeared so far.  So I judged "MC rating" by the frequency of their PoV chapters, their appearances in non-PoV chapters, and their impact on the story arc so far. 

For a non-MC, Adolin has gotten a lot of screentime, and that's why I picked him.  And also because I wanted to draw him talking to his sword with is mum's necklace.

...

A 16 year old full Shardbearer...Sadeas is jealous and for good reason, and maybe that is why he enjoys trolling Adolin so much, not just because he has beef with Dalinar.  It makes me wonder about the exact legal status of Shards in Roshar - are they owned by the individual, or the family?  And obviously there's some governmental control on Shard ownership, since selling one to a foreigner counts as treason.   It's a good thing Blades and Plates all have unique shapes, because otherwise a duel loser would be tempted to stab the winner in the dark and take the Shards back.  

Adolin doesn't use a sidesword in the arena for practice or duels, because there's no point in fighting a Shardbearer opponent with a sidesword.  He, Dalinar, Renarin and every other high ranking lighteyes carries sideswords as their "casual dress" during the day, outside of battle.   Adolin wore his on the zoo date with Shallan; Dalinar had his when Szeth busted through the wall in WoR assassination attempt, but ignored it and used a spear instead.   If Adolin were to lose his own Plate and Blade, I honestly think that other Shardbearers in the Kholin army would offer to give back the Plate and Blades that Adolin won in duels.  Renarin would give back his dead blade.  They wouldn't have the same sentimental value as his mother's Plate and his Edgedancer Blade, but WoB has said that Shards will gradually shift themselves to fit their owners better so there would be no physical difference in the end.  Not letting the best fighter in Alethkar fight is like throwing an ace in the rubbish bin.   But then again, when plot induced stupidity strikes, no one is safe.

I'm not sure how sideknife protocol works and if you aren't supposed to wear one if you are wearing your sidesword, or if you wear both, one on either side of your belt.

Here's what I have on sideknives.  It's a good thing I have an eReader and can just search by keywords.

From WoR, chapter 50, when they find mysterious glyphs scratched on the wall:

 

"They were made with a knife," Navani said, kneeling beside the glyphs.

"This knife," Dalinar replied, holding up a side knife of the style most lighteyes wore.  "My knife."

After Adolin killed Sadeas, it isn't mentioned that he pulled the knife out of his eye, probably because it would have sprayed blood everywhere.  He still managed to cut his cuffs off, with no side knife.  Either he took his coat off and used his Shardblade to do it, or he had a second knife.  Dalinar carries a second knife.

 

Dalinar grabbed a piece of flatbread and slipped his dining knife from the sheath on his right calf...a wide, serrated blade that could double as a weapon in a pinch.

WoK, chapter 22.

I think everyone is hoping that Adolin wasn't stupid enough to have "A.K" engraved on it like his buttons.  And since there's no more Highprince of Information, maybe no one will be smart enough to check under the hilt and find a blacksmith's stamp that points to Kholinar or the Kholin warcamp.

Renarin, to me, is perceptive and thinks analytically and tries to be composed 90% of the time.  The other 10% of the time is when he's jumping in front of a chasmfiend or a Shardbearer or seeing visions about the end of the world.  Pretty much the opposite of Adolin who is emotional and thinks in direct lines, and 10% of the time does something that proves he has foresight, like duelling like a noob and observing that some plateau formations look too precise to be natural (like that 3 layer cake shaped one when he used his Shardblade as a springboard).  Renarin analyses what it means to be "normal" and tries to emulate it - not that it always works.  I would consider "normalness" and neurotypical behaviour to be a first language to most people, and a second language to Renarin.  He can speak "normietalk" but he isn't fluent enough for it to be automatic.  He thinks Renarin thoughts, and has to translate them into "normietalk", and that short processing delay is why girls think there's something off about him.   Now that I re-read the chasmfiend hunt scene, it looks like Renarin perceives that Adolin's interactions with women are not normal and he's unknowingly self-sabotaging.   There is hope for him yet.

Adolin is 23 and lives in a warcamp, how lacking can his -education- be?  He has to know what his soldiers get up to in their spare time, and I am certain he knows about how the mechanics of the chickens...and the cremlings(?) works, at least theoretically.   The question is, after so many years, if his imagination has been stunted in that area so he no longer knows how that sort of stuff applies to him, rather than how it works for people in general.  I don't think Alethi are that prudish, as there are lighteyed officers shown visiting courtesans.  They're reserved about PDA, since men and women are supposed to be separated when in public, but it seems to me that Adolin's prudishness (way above lighteye average) stems from Dalinar being extreme (as usual) on what constitutes proper behaviour in relationships with women.  Namely, doing nothing and saying nothing.  Instead of accepting Navani as his brother's wife, Dalinar avoided her for 20 years (!!!); instead of grieving for Shshshsh and moving on like everyone else, he wiped his memory.   It wouldn't be surprising if Adolin unconsciously grew up thinking that feeling impulses -in that way- is embarrassingly vulgar or a sign of being weak-willed.  Shallan will just have to teach him better.   In most instances, I would think an age gap of 6 years would be a bit much, but Adolin and Shallan seem equally developed in terms of emotional maturity.

It would make me laugh if Shallan was sending smiley faces to Adolin via spanreed.  He can't read, but he can figure out what or means.   I bet pages full of "What are you wearing? :)" or "You hang up first!" would make the ardents draw straws to avoid getting assigned scribe duty.

........

Pattern can't hide his buzzing during storms.  The rest of the time he is quiet until he wants to be heard.  When Shallan was drawing the map of the plateaus in the chasm, Kaladin overheard her muttering about how how weirdly symmetrical they are, but he couldn't hear Pattern and thought she was just talking to herself.

Yeah, personal environments and experiences make up a lot of how individuals perceive the written word.  You associate Alethi with First Nations peoples, while for me, they seem more like Maori (New Zealand native) for their culture based on warfare.  Brandon was inspired by Utah landscapes when he designed the Shattered Plains, but when I read it, I thought it was more Australian-like, except less red.  We even have a similar version of laits - billabongs in low ground that hold water even when summer has dried out all the rivers.  

Perhaps Stormlight has something to do with how large and healthy Alethi appear to be.  Maybe it's silly of me to try to find parallels of Roshar to real life Earth, since their planet has Investiture and that's an important factor which is completely absent on Earth.  The Highstorms start from the Origin, east to west, hitting Alethkar first, and Alethi are probably the tallest nation on Roshar, since Vedens are mentioned to be around 2"/5cm shorter on average and Shinovar, farthest away from the storms and with so little Investiture that they don't even get sprens, is inhabited by people considered small and childlike to the rest of the continent.  Maybe their plants are more nutritious and calorie dense per gram than Earth crops - they do have Cultivation's shard and she is still alive, even if she prefers to ignore everything outside her wish granting cave.

I still can't decide if it's charming or annoying that Dalinar treats everyone like they're children.  He calls everyone "son", like Elhokar and Kaladin, he listens to people even though most of the time he will say his way is better.   Maybe part of his character development is to realise that there are people who are adults with legitimate, valid opinions, not just him.

Sadly, Adolin is a supporting character, whose only purpose of existing within the narrative is to set up plot points, such as setting up Shallan to find Urithiru, and to act as a foil to Dalinar and Kaladin.   We can still make up plenty of unsatisfying theories about his failed love life- like Shshshsh dying when Adolin was ~13, and Dalinar always away helping Gavilar and Sadeas beat up the other Highprinces and take revenge on the Parshendi, so he had no female (or adult in general) parental figure or role model in adolescence to demonstrate how (non-superficial) relationships between men and women work.   Renarin was even younger when Shshshsh died and as far as we know, he has never even been on a single date while people at his age are upgrading their contracts from causal to formal.   There would be plenty of lighteyed girls fifth dahn or lower who would jump at the chance to marry him and have a comfortable life as a wealthy citylord's wife.   Growing up in a big empty house with servants and no friends possibly triggered a disconnect between him and with other people who weren't family.  Everyone would be lower ranking than him, since Adolin is heir to a Princedom, pretty much the highest rank you can be before Alethkar became a unified kingdom.  The typical to response to an invitation as a kid would have gone along the lines of, "sorry guys I can't hang out with you, I've got sword practice this afternoon, tomorrow, the day after...and pretty much forever."   And likely it was worse for Renarin, who spent his developing years only talking to Adolin and ardents, aka people his dad owns.  

Was Danlan the only girl on-screen who approached him first?  I got the impression that a lot of his former dates dropped him because he forgot about them and went after someone else.  Still, even if Adolin is awkward with anything past first base, he seems to have no problem with "socially acceptable contact", or holding and kissing girls' freehands or  footsie under the table.   I would have thought that if you can do step 1, step 2 isn't really an issue.  Then again, after re-reading his bragging interactions from Kaladin's point of view, and then comparing it to the Adolin viewpoint chapters, I have the feeling that Adolin is an unreliable narrator who subconsciously glosses over the reasons for his failed relationships to girls and guy friends because he doesn't want to see himself as a failure at something.  The "It's not me, it's them" mentality.  From the double date with Danlan, Inkima and Jakamav in WoK:

 

"Adolin liked to be familiar with a large number of people, but not terribly close with any of them."

WoK, chapter 58.

Maybe he's the problem.

I think it's funny that people are critical of how successful and fast Shallan is at learning surgebinding and con artist skills in something like 4 months.  But Kaladin has been naturally good at everything since his childhood.  He may not have a natural affinity to medicine but he learns things very quickly, and in other skills he is supernaturally intuitive.   His ability to learn, however, tends to be overshadowed by his other character traits of depression and plot-relevant stupidity.  

LOL.

 

I should definitely made myself a large hand stating "#1 Adolin's fan", take a picture and send it to Brandon.

I would not be at all surprised if you were the type of person to throw your safeglove into the dueling arena after a victory.

...

Yes, now that I think about it, it's pretty strange that Sadeas never won a Blade even though he was around the same skill level of Gavilar and Dalinar, who were both full Shardbearers.  Dalinar even won a second set of Shards for Elhokar, so that Gavilar's set could be used for training.  I suspect it's because winning a Blade is a matter of what you have to wager and how you cultivate your reputation.  Duels for Shards are relatively rare, as most people fight to settle an argument or raise their duelling score.  Only half bearers would duel for Shards, and only those willing to risk their own for the wager.  So you can't win a Shard unless you have a Shard already - but possibly there are people willing to bet their entire family estates on a duel, though this would be very very unusual since Shards are considered priceless.   Sadeas was either not willing to risk his Plate, or everyone was afraid of his reputation after he duelled and killed Yenev.   Seeing Adolin win 5 (or 6?) Shards in a two month period would be considered unprecendented, probably because most people wager 1:1 and stop immediately after become a full Bearer, since it instantly raises you to Fourth Dahn.

Adolin has a Shardblade, but he also carries a sidesword outside the arena.  I don't think he would carry it unless he knew how to use it.  When you think about it, there are 100 000 soldiers on the Shattered Plains, and if 5% of them are lighteyed officers, that's still 5 000 people.  There are only 3 shards (out of the ~30 Shardbearers from the ten princely houses) publicly available for training, Gavilar and Elhokar's Plate, and Gavilar's Blade.  Even if they had people rotating all day and training at night by spherelight, there still wouldn't be enough Shards to go around to train people.  So I think the most efficient thiing to do is for people to practice fencing outside of Blade and Plate with sideswords and only let the capable (or well connected) people graduate to Shard practice.  Adolin probably trained with a sidesword before he was tall and strong enough for Plate and Blade. 

Ugh, Kaladin.  A lot of people find his struggles make him relatable and human, but sometimes the really face-palm worthy things he does are almost contrived blindness for plot advancement purposes.  Amaram is a bad guy, I must kill him!  Moash is a good guy, I won't report him!  Dalinar is a lighteyes, I won't trust him!  If he had Adolin's character alignment judging skills, the Third Ideal would have been spoken by page 500.  I also think that a main reason for why he is so angry and fixated with his slavery (and why the brands won't heal) happened during the 8 months where he escaped multiple times and got recaptured.  But they were only glossed over in Part 1 of WoK when he was in the slave wagon, so to many people the constant saltiness seems like him being a primadonna.

I found one of the few description lines for Renarin in WoK, from the chasmfiend hunt scene.

 

"As usual, the younger Kholin rode with a straight back and perfect posture, eyes hidden behind his spectacles, a model of propriety and solemnity".

 

Propriety: (n.) conformity to the prevailing standard of behaviour, speech, etc

So maybe he goes to the fashionable hairdresser for lighteyes and gets the plainest style they have, which is still fancy relative to the darkeye military barbers but nothing compared to Sadeas's shoulder length hair or Aladar's styled mustache.   He wouldn't pay attention to fashion folios as Adolin does, but he still cares enough about what is appropriate for his rank as well as the Codes of War to make sure his clothes are clean and pressed and his hair is combed but not styled with wax or scented oils.  From what I recall of the people I know, most of the 19-20 year olds got away with shaving once every 3 days, and it was just clearing up patches of wispy fuzz on the cheeks and a scattering of proper beard hairs on chin and mustache.   I would hesitate to call that a beard, it's more like face moss.

I find it slightly amusing that Shallan thinks she's plain and very strange looking, and too skinny and flat to be pretty.  The Bridge Four bodyguards think she's attractive and seems more approachable than the cold and aloof Alethi ladies; only Kaladin disagrees because lighteyes can't be attractive.  Adolin probably thinks she's endearingly small and cute and spoonable if he allowed himself to imagine physical contact more intimate than touching her freehand.   It's straight out of a teen romance novel.

"Why do you even like me, Adolin?  I'm not hot like you, I don't deserve you. :("

"But Shallan, you're beautiful!!!!"

"A-am I?"

Of course I have a strong preference to the second image.

oh maxal

of course

PS. girls are soft and smell nice, which is very strange and scary when you're used to sweaty dudes and shardplate codpieces.

...

Pattern is really weird to me, too.  He doesn't look like a small person like Syl and he has no mouth.   When Shallan carries him around, he causes slight shadowing and rippling on her dress but I draw him as a black outline because he would otherwise be invisible.  In my mind, he is the mix between a slug and one of those pinwheel toys for children, about the size of a CD and small enough to fit on a sheet of paper.  And he doesn't need a mouth to talk because I think the communication between Radiant and spren is perceived mentally: you think you're hearing a voice but it's all in your head.  That's why Bridge Four thinks Kaladin is weird when he talks to the air - Syl's and Pattern's voices aren't audible on the physical realm unless they want them to be, like when Syl talks to Sigzil and Pattern mimics voices for Shallan.  

In my country the average height for women and men is 165cm/178cm, with younger people and those of Anglo-european heritage being taller on average.   190+cm is not rare enough to be remarkable but it is uncommon, especially for people of Asian background whom I see a lot of on a daily basis.  There are some southeast Asian people I know who I think could very well pass for Alethi with their black hair and tan skintone.  I can admit that when I was figuring out how Alethi facial proportions worked, I drew on some Vietnamese Australians I know who have very expressive faces.  They are of average height and probably why my estimates for the Kholins' heights are a little lower than yours.   I also thought that since the plants on Roshar have to devote energy resources to protecting themselves from the highstorms, their crop yields would be lower because of it.  On Earth, a lot of food plants that originally had defence mechanisms in place such as thorny stems or bitter leaves or  tough skins had them bred out to produce heftier fruits.  And the gradual average height increase in western countries post WW1 has been because of better crop breeds and more efficient farming practises.   Unless Stormlight and parshman and chull labour makes up for it, the lack of horses and mechanisation in agriculture would leave Alethkar at a 1700's level of communal village farming, with Soulcasters only being used for food in cities of high population density, like Kholinar.  As a side note, Alethkar doesn't even have crossbows though they seem to have the capacity to produce them, just look at the Shardbearer's Grandbow.  If an engineer can design a crankable folding siege bridge, a crossbow isn't too far off.

Dalinar's regular facial expression veers between stern and grim most of the time.  It's similar to Kaladin, but Kal has an extra edge of bitterness that I try to channel.  People who don't know Dalinar would think that he never smiles, but people who know him well, like Adolin and Renarin, would be able to able to tell.  And when he is pleased and his eyes crinkle up, it's like he just said "I'm proud of you, son" even if he didn't say anything.  That means a lot because normally he just gives a solemn nod of acknowledgment when he is satisfied with things.

To me, Brandon's style of writing about relationships tends to be...idealised.  He played Adolin's pathetic love life for humour rather than making it feasibly realistic, so readers would suspend their disbelief in order to enjoy the sitcom level shenanigans.  But when you think about it, it's very very strange.  Even Lin Davar, Shallan's dad, who is a not particularly wealthy minor noble with a reputation for violent and crazy behaviour, somehow got remarried.  Adolin is nowhere near that level of crazy; at worst he's just apathetic.  He brags to Kaladin about girls going to the training arena to watch him spar and having to kick them out - but none of the girls he courts bothers to approach him; instead they wait for him to call and get mad when he doesn't.   I'm probably reading too much into something that is an obvious plot setup to introduce Shallan as main love interest.   But it still niggles at me a bit, because the worst things I can think of in a feudal society that would make you repulse girls so regularly, is being known as the guy who murdered his previous wife or the guy who sired and acknowledged an illegitimate son.  Adolin at the end of WoK had barely even kissed a girl.  

I take the biological age calculation with a grain of salt.  Rosharans obviously don't measure their own development by Earth standard and it would be silly if they did, since the Cosmere has no Earth and they all originate from Yolen anyway.  It would have put Jasnah in her 40's and Dalinar in his 60's.  Just feels weird to contemplate it.  I think the only people to put any shred of belief behind it are the ones who think that it's unrealistic for Kaladin to be a surgeon, spearman soldier, and squadleader by age 18.  

You should be careful when you talk about boybands and their hair and what they looked like in the way back.  Douchey is only the beginning.

I was reminded of the Dutch TV show "New Kids", about young working class men in a small town.  They all have interesting hair that would look very strange if it were black and blond. 

...

Zahel said that young lighteyes start training at around ten years old, and at that point they'd be too small to fit Shardplate assuming Plate can't shrink down to child size. Maybe there were petite women Radiants with Plate, who knows. But seeing what Zahel ordered Renarin and Kaladin to do, it wouldn't be hard to assume that it was a lot of karate kid wax on-wax off menial tasks until a kid was serious about learning. Adolin starting at 6 is unusual since Amaram said city lighteyes can start as early as 8 or 9 when Tien got conscripted. It's pretty crazy how skilled Adolin is. Even Dalinar got Oathbringer at 20. Most of the guys in camp Adolin's age are half bearers and must be sour about Renarin having a full set he never uses. Plate enhances your natural strength like cyborg arms. I wouldn't think it would stunt you unless you wore it all day and all night and forgot what your natural state was like.

Kal started growing at age 14 and was taller than his parents by 15. I know he is the default favourite character for most people but there are certain traits about him that make me want to smack him. He is chronically nearsighted, and as you say, he sees what he wants to see. Adolin has nice clothes. In fact, all of the Kholins have nice clothes - or dress appropriately for their rank, and presumably pay their tailors well and treat them fairly, but Kaladin gets tunnel vision on Adolin particularly. He seems to have forgotten that when Wistiow was still alive and his family were the richest darkeyes in town, he and Tien were the ones with nice new clothes and all the other farmer boys in the flashback chapter where he holds a staff for the first time had patched up work pants. This same nearsightedness is why Moash got away with bad things.

In my opinion, a lighteyes and son of a highprince who got the military haircut would be rebellious. In the warcamps the darkeyes in all armies crop their hair for practical reasons but the lighteye officers only want to party and have fun, so grow their hair long, like Sadeas and his long curls. The default haircut for high ranking brightlords like Jakamav and Elit would be fashionable and styled, and they would think Dalinar's military crop shows what a boring, stodgy old man he is. Anyone high ranking who got the haircut would be tacitly in support of Dalinar's Codes. My interpretation is that Renarin does not rock the boat and settles on something in between that is not military regulation but still combed neatly and trimmed regularly. Maybe he lets Rock trim his hair after he joins Bridge Four. But no one expects him to get his hair cut military short after he gets Shards and "joins" the Kholin army. Same way they comment on him bonding a Shardblade but never see him summon it for weeks at a time, and no one asks him or orders him to practice with it. Dalinar is afflicted with nearsightedness too, it seems.

I would say that in public, it's expected that Alethi women should present themselves to be elegant and refined, just like Vorin codes expect the men should be dignified and honourable. Of course they're squabbling, passive aggressive hens when not in public. But when I draw them, I want the average Brightness's courtly formalness to contrast to Shallan's open friendliness.

If Alethi can grow beards at a young age and Kaladin probably had to start shaving more than once a week at age 18, does this mean that Renarin can grow a beard? I think beards are not too fashionable because they're associated with ardents and the church isn't so popular. Or associated with the working class since poor people can't afford razors and only bathe once a week or whenever there's a highstorm.

I don't have a defined image for a character unless I try to draw them.  I remember their described physical features like red hair or wobbly jowls but it never clicks together into a cohesive image until I draw it, and often I have to draw it multiple times until I have gotten closer to how I feel they should look.  It reminds me of how Shallan saw Pattern floating around in the corner of her eye but he wasn't real until she drew him.

Wow, in your interpretation, it sounds like the Shattered Plains is a bizarre alternate universe version of the Netherlands.  I actually went to my ereader copy of WoK and searched for "tall" and everyone seems above average, except for Gaz and Tien.

In the WoR scene where Shallan goes to the arena to sketch Shardplate, she tells Adolin she's 5'6" (168cm), a good height for a Veden woman, when he asks what she's up to. If we say that an average including peasants is 165cm, then multiply by the average height ratio of women to men which is 1.09, then the average Veden man would be 180cm. That was what I assumed was what most adult men Jah Keved and Alethkar were, so 190cm or above would be considered pretty unusual.  Even today, 190cm is not very common and mostly seen in people under age 30.  The Highprinces only started getting gemhearts for Soulcasting en masse 6 years ago, and most of the products stay in the Plains rather than being spread out to the rest of Alethkar.   That's why I estimated most nobles would be in the mid 180cms and Kaladin is unusually tall at 191-192cm.

Dalinar rarely smiles.  When he is pleased with something, his wrinkles rearrange themselves so his frown lines aren't so deep but his mouth barely moves.  He also gets happy eyes.

What I don't understand is how Adolin is handsome, rich, skilled duellist, and a prince but somehow single in WoK.  Gold diggers are all around in a feudal society and it never made sense that no girl stuck around with him even if he looked at waitresses' bums and their sisters.  Given how shy he is about physical intimacy, it was all look and no touch and any girl (or her family) really interested in having her son inherit a princedom wouldn't make a big deal about it.  I get that no one likes Dalinar, but Dalinar won't live forever. 
There was that one thread on calculating Roshar years to Earth years and I think Adolin was worked out to be biologically 26 years old.  I kind of feel sorry for the guy now.

Oh man, that spiky hair makes me think about professional soccer players in 2005. 

You need a short cut back and sides to get gelled up hair to look like that.  I think Adolin's hair is too long for that.   And it makes him look a bit like a douchebag, which Kaladin would think is perfectly fitting. 

...

I think it's weightlifting that's bad for you at a young age.  It's not good to compress a growing skeleton.  Renarin mentioned that Adolin started training at age 6, but I don't think Alethi military training really involves weightlifting.  For lighteyed kids it's probably just whacking dummies with wooden swords.  If Shardbearers do weight training, then Adolin inheriting his mother's Plate at age 16 wouldn't have stunted him that much.  The real question is how Kaladin is so freakishly tall when his family is presumably on the short end of average and he was in Amaram's army during his developing years.  Is it unconscious Stormlight infusion, like how greatshells get so big?

It's kind of frustrating how little canonised physical description of Renarin there is.  He's skinny with glasses, and that's about it.  I'm pretty sure his hair colour isn't mentioned, but everyone draws it the same way because he isn't described as blond like Adolin so he must be dark haired and follows mysterious Roshar Yu-Gi-Oh genetics. I really only have a generic picture of Renarin in my head.

He was never hit hard with the puberty stick so he doesn't have a deep voice like Dalinar; he has soft features instead of angular ones which is why Kaladin forgets that he is only a year younger and treats him like one of those teenage boys he needs to protect.  Kaladin judges Adolin for his expensive boots, but overlooks Renarin wearing glasses doing exercises in the arena and jumping off roofs.  In Kal's childhood, glasses were the most expensive item his dad owned next to the jar of diamonds.  Lirin never even took the glasses outdoors.

To me, Renarin is the type of person who doesn't like sitting for pictures and turns his face away if you try to look straight into his eyes.  He has hair in a longer fashionable cut that is definitely not military regulation, but he gets away with it because everyone in his family spoils him and lets him be play at being a soldier even though he is completely unsuited for it.

I always thought that because Adolin and Renarin had the same parents, they'd have the same skintone.   But Adolin is outdoors a lot whilst Renarin stays at home so Adolin is tanned.  Renarin's skin colour is the same as noble women who have slaves to carry palanquins and umbrellas.  But who knows how Rosharan genetics work, maybe Iriali have metallic shiny skin along with their metallic shiny hair and the Kholin brothers sparkle like Edward Cullen in the right light.

To me, Alethi noblewomen are supposed to be elegant, reserved and competent.  They all have perfect posture and glide along, while Shallan is energetic and bouncy.  And Alethi brightnesses all have perfectly shaped and arched eyebrows.  It's such a small and insignificant detail, but perfect eyebrows say a lot about a person.

Kaladin has the type of hardboiled cynic personality that generates permastubble an hour after shaving, if he was a police detective in another sort of novel.   He can grow a beard at age 19 (that's pretty rare, most Polynesians/Asian men at that age can only grow the neckbeard and the soulpatch) and never cares about his appearance, so I'm surprised every single depiction of him post-slavery has him clean-shaven.  And he has the same kind of scary eyes that Dalinar has.  If he was looking in your direction, you'd glance from side to side to reassure yourself that he wasn't staring at you.

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I looked it up and Google is filled with all sorts of urban myths and personal anecdotes about exercise and height.  Stretching exercises and swimming may let you grow taller, but mostly it's genetics and diet.  And Renarin can't have the best genetics since he does have the blood sickness.  I don't know how they treat symptoms of epilepsy in Alethkar, but it wouldn't be too farfetched to imagine that Renarin was sent to bed with lukewarm soup and other plain foods that are purposefully unexciting in order not to trigger fits.

And you're right, there are few physical descriptions of Renarin and he doesn't have any viewpoint chapters, which is why I dislike drawing him.  I haven't gotten a feel for his personality and what analysis there is on his character is mostly presumption and reading very deeply into a few throwaway lines.   I feel like I'm throwing darts in the dark when I try to pin my impression of him to paper.  So far I've drawn him skinnier and less conventionally attractive than Adolin, paler skintone on the same level of the female characters because he is an indoors person, and boyish aesthetic rather than manly.  He also avoids eye contact and physical contact with non-family members.  Also he probably tried women's food when no one was looking and liked it.

Adolin eating a lot is not really that surprising.  He spends every day either in or preparing for battle or duels.  That kind of daily workout would make him the equivalent of a professional athlete.  He'd probably happily eat chouta and after being told what it's made from, he'd just shrug and keep eating. 

My character designs for Kaladin and Shallan took a lot of evolving.  The first drawings of them look weird to me now, like watching the first season of The Simpsons and wondering what's wrong with their faces.  There are certain elements that I think are most important for conveying their character.  For Shallan it's rounded lines in her face and hair to represent the "blossoms and cake" that everyone thinks she is.  As for Kaladin, he's allergic to smiles. 

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It is rare (to me at least) to find people who are not artists come up with detailed mental pictures when they read.   Even I don't have one for the first or second read through, or first time I try sketching from memory. 

To me, Dalinar is tall (184/185cm; I'm guessing 177cm or so is average Alethi male which is pretty big for a pre-industrial society, since in 170cm was considered average in 1920 in my country) and very fit for his age, but in the warcamps there are many young men who are taller and more muscular.  Dalinar gets by on his strength of personality.  He may not be that much taller than most people, but when they speak to him, they leave with the impression that he's a lot bigger than he is because of his presence and aura of authority.

I experimented with a number of hairstyles see what would fit Adolin the best.  The first hand-drawn sketches I drew, in retrospect, resembled Fred from Scooby Doo (now that I think about it, Fred and Daphne could easily be recoloured into Adolin and Shallan).  Rounded lines suggest softness and youth, and angular lines are better for conveying maturity.  It was a bit of trial and error to settle on a style that compromised on his personality of boyish playfulness and adult competence.

And one of the reasons why I kept re-working the picture was because there was always something that I wanted to change.  You mentioned Adolin with hair product and I remembered that I did draw a variant of it, but painted over it because I thought it was too "princeling" and not enough mop.

It looks silly, doesn't it?  I think it makes him edge into prettyboy level rather than just being handsome.

I think longer or "pretty" hair styles fit Renarin better.