Eagle of the Forest Path

The void-glyphs use point reflection whereas the surge-glyphs use reflection through an axis.

I doubt this suggests watered down versions of Radiant surges.

I think more along the lines of similar surges, but warped somehow. With one aspect of the surge inverted.

Nice find BTW.

Koopas and Goombas!

Possibly those giant snappy flower things.

Just to be sure: Ookla week starts Monday the 23rd of November this year?

Alright, obviously copper compounding can't give you information that you didn't already have...

Why not?

From The Emperor's Soul we know that items have memories too (e.g. a window frame remembers it once held a stained glass window). From several WoBs we know that compounding changes the source of the released attributes (i.e. they come from the power of Preservation instead of from the compounder himself).

I have this theory about Feruchemy where the attributes are actually stored in the Cognitive realm and the physical metalmind functions as a link. But when Compounding the power comes from Preservation, which is in the Spiritual realm. So it's not out of the question that something other than the originally stored memories get released when burning a coppermind.

Even if you keep the contents of the coppermind involved, you don't have to limit yourself to the memories currently stored in it.

Imagine, you read The Way of Kings (by Nohadon) and store it in your coppermind. You later retrieve it and use the same coppermind to store Words of Radiance, which you also retrieve later. Finally you store Arts and Majesty in the same coppermind and then use it for compounding. Because of the increased power, suddenly not only Arts and Majesty gets poured back into your head, but also Words of Radiance, The Way of Kings and any other memories that had once been stored in that particular coppermind.

Alternatively, because of the Spiritual realm's involvement in compounding, burning a metalmind could retrieve information by gathering it via the Feruchemist's spiritual connections. Possible effects could be that you suddenly have your wife's memories, or that you retrieve memories stored in your other copperminds (if a Feruchemist doesn't have a spiritual connection to his own metalminds, he'd have to be a sociopath IMO). Could be you receive memories from Preservation himself (seems to be a common theory, though I have my doubts).

Just to say that there are a lot of ways copper compounding could work, besides increasing clarity or intensity or (permanence).

About the 'flawless memory' quote, that doesn't necessarily have to indicate compounding. Compared to normal memory, just regular copper feruchemy would be impressive enough to seem flawless. At the time of the quote we knew absolutely nothing about compounding, we didn't even know about the existence of Feruchemy yet, so that quote could simply be a clue that TLR was secretly a Feruchemist, and have little to do with compounding at all.

Atium is the bit of Ruin that Preservation 'cut off' so they'd be equally powerful again.

Don't think Ruin would have stood for that if he weren't imprisoned at the time.

Try reading this coppermind page about fabrials. It explains some of your questions.

Rock can't see the spren in fabrials because they are trapped inside a gemstone. A gemstone that's hidden inside a machine, most of the time.

It is currently unknown how spren are trapped in gemstones (unless there's a WoB I haven't read yet?).

Fabrials don't really harness the spren's power, as I understand it. Fabrial devices still require stormlight to function, the captured spren, together with the type of gem, determines what effects a febrial device can have.

Wouldn't that be the Surge of progression?

No, I think it happens automatically, as indicated by this WoB:

 

 

QUESTION

For Words of Radiance, could you put a comment about something in the upcoming books, something not too specific, just something I can think about? Something like "Renarin has a spren" you wrote for somebody else in The Way of Kings?

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

Brandon wrote "Stormlight makes plants grow" in the guy's book.

The problem with that is that it might get mixed up with WWKD. (What Would Kelsier Do)

 

And don't forget WWSD, (What Would Shallan Do) WWVD, (What Would Vin Do) WWDD, (What Would Dalinar Do) WWHD, (What Would Hoid Do) or the most popular, WWAD. (What Would Alcatraz Do)

 

You're welcome.

Sorry, I'm a Sliverist, so I'm sticking to WWTLRD.

When you don't wear white clothes any more because you're worried about ash-stains.

We know that they aren't fabrial devices, because a fabrial is a gem that contains a captured spren. And the gems in Shardplate are just regular stormlight-infused ones. (regular on Roshar, that is, on Earth those would be pretty remarkable )

Don't think that can I agree with the "dead lesser spren" theory. Since lesser spren don't form bonds (as far as I know), there wouldn't be a reason for them to die from a Radiant abandoning their ideals. Also, modern (non-glowy) shardplate doesn't have to synchronise with its wearer, as a dead-spren Shardblade has to.

And since you can regrow an entire suit of broken Shardplate by feeding stormlight to a single piece, I don't think it would make sense for each section to be a different spren.

It's also useful for jewelry because it's easily shaped (compared to other metals) and is highly corrosion resistant.  Think about it this way.  It was valued here on earth long before we used electricity. 

And if it's easy to shape for jewelry, it's also easy to shape for coinage.

That it doesn't corrode (for all practical intents and purposes) is an additional reason to base your monetary system on it, since a coin that eats itself over time isn't what anyone wants, now is it?

If you want, you could look at the gold standard for more info.

When you randomly hold out your hand and start counting heartbeats.

From Terry Pratchett's Thud!: "Tak does not require that we think of Him, only that we think."

Do we know if stormlight does anything to ageing? Quite a few cosmere magic systems do.

Probably, if you hold enough of it. But since it leaks out, you probably can't keep it in long enough to have any noticeable effects.

No, IMO it just means that the bracers were rather small/thin, so they didn't contain much metal at all.

This does mean that for a metalmind with a small physical volume, a lot of age could be packed in tightly when stored.

It's in The Well of Ascension, haven't got a page number, but it's somewhere in the beginning.

Edit: It also has something about Elend being dissappointed about how little atium they actually contained.

Elend sold them, no idea who to.

I think Chromium is the way to go here, leech the cra... crem out of the Shardplate and the KR is immobilized by his own armor.

Then the Mistborn can just Duralumin-steelpush something into the plate and the whole thing would burst into a thousand pieces, and maybe leave a coin-shaped hole in the Radiant.

That is, if the Mistborn can get the drop on the Radiant. If the Radiant knows an enemy is nearby the Mistborn has to dodge the shardblade. Which would still be possible with atium and pewter, actually, so Mistborn FTW.

Interesting topic of speculation.

Something that has to be kept in mind when theorizing on this is that the ratio of "10 times more power" is something that applies to Feruchemy. A magic system that uses relatively little power to begin with. For all we know, combining Allomancy with stormlight gives the exact same power as using stormlight by itself, or maybe twice the power, or only half.

I'll take a shot at combining Allomancy with the Gravitation surge assuming similar amounts of power are invested as released.

From compounding (Allomancy+Feruchemy) we know that an invested metal can overwrite the signature that determines which effect you get from burning it.

So let's say you infuse a flake of metal with stormlight and give it a basic lashing downward, doubling it's weight, and then burn it.

Disregarding whether the stormlight has to be infused by the allomancer or not, we don't really have any way of telling how the source of Allomantic power (Preservation) would interpret the lashing.

It could say "This piece of metal is twice as heavy as normal, the power I'll give is to make heavier."

And that's not even taking into account of whether the power granted is internal or external, does burning that metal make yourself heavier or something you touch (probably has to be metal, this is Allomancy after all). This could depend on whether the metal you lashed is normally internal or external.

With this logic burning a metal that was lashed upwards could make something weightless (again, either an object or the allomancer him- or herself). Burning a metal that was lashed sideways would be pretty hilarious: burn it and you smash into a wall.

If the power of Preservation is a bit smarter about it, it could realize "This piece of metal has had it's gravity altered, that's the power I'll give."

But if you make that power external it would be pretty much the same as Iron and Steel, especially since IMO Preservation is likely to give a power as close as possible to what it already knows, so why bother? (unless you're a misting of course, who wants to fly)

The internal version could be interesting, though, like a basic lashing that only works on yourself.

What might be really interesting is if the piece of infused metal were Lerasium.

You could permanently get the ability to use a surge, the question is how you'd fuel it. Would you still need to burn a metal, or would you also gain the ability to suck in stormlight?

SIDE NOTE > I'm not sure how the power level of Mistings compares to Mistborn though. For example, the Lord Prelin had three kids by Vin's mom. Let's assume all three kids survive, but that Vin is the only Mistborn and the other two are a coinshot (Reen) and a soother (Vin's little sister). Would Reen's raw/undeveloped steel powers exceed Vin's? Would Vin's sister's raw/undeveloped Brass powers be on par with Breeze and would her powers be greater than, equal to, or less than Vin's?

Vin's mom had 2 kids with the Lord Prelan, not 3. So Reen was not a misting of any kind, and Vin's sister was a Seeker, that's where Vin got her extra power with Bronze via her earring, which allowed her to pierce copperclouds. I know you said "assume", but it bothered me. 

WoB

 

 

DALENTHAS (15 OCTOBER 2008)

Did the Lord Ruler have any Hemalurgic spikes in him? It would seem he'd need to for Ruin to influence him, but it wasn't mentioned. Or did his bracers work as spikes?

BRANDON SANDERSON (16 OCTOBER 2008)

His arm bracers, which pierced his skin, were his spikes.

Are you sure?  Can't coal get to 3,500 at a perfect burn?  Pretty sure chromium melts at 3,400 and some change.  It would be very hard.  Take a ton of trial and error with no good way of measuring things,  but it might be possible to produce a very small amount.  

 

edit*  temps in degree's F.

Also, TLR can compound Brass, he can just be a furnace.

However I do have to poke the hole that the Lord Ruler could not have stored his soul in the Bands, because the Bands of Mourning (his bracers) were Atium minds, not Nicrosil minds...

The Bands of Mourning weren't just metalminds, they were Hemalurgic spikes as well. Though I agree that it's unlikely his soul is stored in there.

It comes down to whether nicro-minds can store either kinetic investiture or innate investiture, or both. I'm of the opinion that it's only kinetic investiture, but if it is possible to store innate investiture it likely won't amount to the level of storing one's entire soul. Might be too much overlap with Aluminum.

And if I understand your point correctly, you can think of each metal as its own separate tube. The enhancement metals affect all of the tubes that an allomancer possesses. Going back to the first analogy, a mistborn has more connection due to its more tubes.

 

I always saw it as one single tube. Kind of like a soda fountain, investiture is the water and the different metals just add different flavors of syrup.

To carry on the analogy, a normal burn and flaring are how far you open the tap, with flaring being all the way open. Duralumin would be similar to bashing the tap with a hammer.

@ KidWayne

I love that diagram, and the addition of an aperture, you get a cake for that (it's delicious and moist).

Although I do think the aperture should be located between 'Preservation' and 'metal reserve'.

About the Push and Pull ends of the metal reserve, it's an intriguing idea. Though we know that burned metals are vaporized, we don't actually know where they go afterwards.

The reason my theory had Aluminum (and Chromium) force-burn the metals was that it was a way to convert them into investiture instead of a physical substance. Since we know that Aluminum can cleanse the body of other forms of investiture as well (quote below), it seemed more logical to me that removing investiture were all Aluminum does, instead of investiture and metals. Unfounded, of course, but I think you can see my reasoning?

DOUGLAS

What benefit does an aluminum savant get? Yes, I know this would normally never happen because aluminum burns itself up. Suppose a mad scientist with a willing Mistborn test subject shoved a feeding tube down the Mistborn's throat to pump in a continuous stream of aluminum, replenishing it steadily so there's always a new unburned supply. Add another tube to pump out excess water if necessary. What would he discover? Alternatively, what would Sazed with his Shard-granted knowledge know?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Ha, that IS a little silly of a method. However, on the extreme end of aluminum, I have in the notes the possibility of cleansing the spirit of unwanted effects of other investitures. You'd get really good at this, and maybe even be able to cleanse the body of other impurities.

 

Isnt this pretty much what happened on Sel?  We know that there were two shards, but multiple magic systems (soulstamps, AonDor, whatever the monks do, and ChayShan).

Sorry, but it isn't.

All Selish magics are basically the same system, so they should all be end-positive.

Here's my source.

 

WINDRUNNER17 ()

Why does Scadrial, which has two Shards, only have three manifestations of investiture, (Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy) but Sel, also with two Shards, has five manifestations of investiture (AonDor, Dakhor, ChayShan, Forgery, and Bloodsealing)?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Sel's magics are much more regionalized than Scadrial's. Each area has its own manifestation, but they're all actually the same magic. So really there is one magic on Sel—much as Windrunning and Lightweaving on Roshar are kind of different magics, but also kind of the same.

When talking about multi-shard magics, Roshar is your best bet IMO.

There should be two sauce options. A spicy one for men and a sweet one for women. (Just according to in-world customs, I'd probably wimp out and go for the sweet version)

And rather than Latin food, I imagine Chouta more Indian, like stuffed chapati.

Edit: has anyone considered crab or shrimp for flangria, since Roshar lifeforms are mainly crustaceans?