Sophiina

As mentioned above. =] Sorry again for the misunderstanding.

So we don't actually know why they 'turned against humanity' yet, but it wasn't due to what the Heralds did. Okay.

Thank you all, and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding that might have come about. =\ I don't think that it's solely the realisation that the Heralds broke their Pact that might have caused the Recreance, but the fact that finding out that the Heralds broke the pact that started to cause issues for the Knights Radiant themselves. We know that on Roshar ideas and thoughts are a powerful thing - hence why the spren exist. We also know that the Nahel Bond would not be able to survive through 'legal technicalities', so if a Knights Radiant had betrayed their oaths then the spren would start to die. I think that, after discovering that the Heralds broke the Oathpact they would no longer be able to follow the Heralds. Do we know if Odium itself started to corrupt the Heralds due to how much time it had to spend with them between Desolations? Edit: Just a quick following up to my statement, and purely speculation, but what if Desolations are caused by the breaking of Oaths? We know that the Desolations only began once the Heralds 'broke' to the torture that they were subject to. This could be seen as a weakening of Honor by not being hono(u)rable - and thus weakening the thing that is binding Odium. It would also suggest that the Recreance led to the death of Honor himself, due to the sheer number of Oaths that were broken in one go. If it can be shown that the First Ideal is not possible to be adhered to by the Knights Radiant, and it is inevitable that the Ideal will be broken, then it would also suggest that the existence of the Knights Radiant are partly a cause for the Desolations.

If I switched them over then it's only because the way I consider it, that makes more sense. Preservation and Ruin - ingesting a metal (which destroys it) but getting power from it. That isn't preserving it, but also ruining it. =P But preserving something would make sense with Feruchemy since it's kind of like the 'Law of Conservation of Energy'. It isn't created or destroyed, just changed from one state to another.

Yes, I have read both of the books - but my question isn't with regards to some magical demand that they follow it... just whether you might expect them to follow it. Might the Knights Radiant whose Orders were created by the Heralds, come to expect their founders to follow the same First Ideal that they do?

From what I recall, Feruchemy came from Preservation. Nothing is created or destroyed, only transferred from one form to the other. Allomancy was jointly created by Preservation and Ruin, and Hemalurgy was created by Ruin (something is lost in the transfer).

Thanks! And yes, very much so - but do you think that they might still be expected to follow the ideal despite it not being a source of their surgebinding?

Sorry if this is considered a necropost (I did search through before I posted anything) but this is also my first post on the forums! Hihi. So, I am assuming that the First Ideal only applies to the Knights Radiant and not to the Heralds, since the Heralds would have broken that First Ideal when they left Taln (sacrificing one for the greater good). Do you think that the Knights Radiant might have been a little annoyed about that when/if they found out?