kari-no-sugata

An interesting question to ask Brandon would be whether what people on Roshar consider to be a year is actually the same as the astronomical year. Basically they consider a year to end with the Weeping and they don't have Earth-like seasons - there's no reason for it to coincide with the astronomical year. Personally, I don't think individual Highstorms are related to the moons. However, the Weeping could be. Or maybe related to the proximity to Braize.

A little note in advance: I feel like I've been dissing Kaladin and Renarin a lot in posts lately and it feels a bit unfair. However, all characters have various flaws and those flaws show up in different circumstances. Some character flaws would particularly affect their chances of having a stable, long-term romantic relationship and since that's the topic of this thread then it's particularly relevant. Just because I'm pointing out these flaws doesn't mean that I dislike the characters overall or anything like that. I also expect these flaws to change this time - characters will grow, come to realise their flaws and so on. So what could happen in the next book or two would be rather different to what could happen in 10 years time, for example. But anyway... When it comes to Kaladin, I certainly think he'll have trouble with long term romance with what we've seen to date. One big problem for Kaladin is that he's basically a workaholic - his work/life balance is terrible. Even when his men drag him to the pub he's still thinking about work. Even Syl complains about this aspect of him. To put it bluntly, that's not conducive to a long term romantic relationship. So for him to form a long term romantic relationship I think it would require something major: (1) he loses his "job" and has nothing he needs to do, (2) he falls completely head-of-heels in love to the extent that his entire personality changes (3) the other party is someone he regularly meets while working, (4) meet someone who is happy to have such a relationship, (5) he stops being a workaholic. For the above, (1) seems unlikely since he's currently the most combat orientated Radiant, (2) rather improbable and would feel "forced" within the story, (3) would depend a lot upon the circumstances and workplace relationships aren't the most stable either, (4) is also rather improbably and liable to feel "forced" within the story (5) it seems too ingrained in him to change quickly. This is part of the reason why I previously posted that one reason I'm not too keen on Kaladin x Shallan is it seems likely that Shallan would be the one having the make the sacrifices.

It sometimes feels like I should never say never with Shallan but if she consider how she attracted to Kabsal and Adolin, they were both friendly, positive though somewhat self-deprecating, relaxed and good conversationalists. When Shallan was with Kaladin, she spent a lot of time complaining about him being negative and tense. Renarin seems even worse. Shallan is definitely capable of liking difficult people (eg Jasnah) but it seems a heck of a lot harder...

It's possible that Brandon didn't use the word laser in an general purpose sense - a laser is more than a beam of light, it's a way of producing that. A laser is actually a device. A laser beam is the output from a laser. So Brandon's SA version of a laser might be more like a fabrial - some real lasers use gems/crystals after all. But yes we might get the Giant Magnifying Glass of Doom (tm) as well We already saw Shallan getting frustrated with a telescope near the end of WoR and I immediately wondered how long it'll be until she starts replicating lens effects using her Radiant abilities. I've even imagined her doing things like creating a real-time map of a battlefield using light projection.

Gaining redemption implies he made a huge mistake that caused a lot of harm. Is Sadeas a saint now or what? I very much doubt many people who know Sadeas will actually regret his passing. Brandon himself said that killing Sadeas was something that needed to be done. The other high princes aren't saints either - so why is it necessary for Adolin to die for doing something that needed to be done to appease a bunch of people who will be increasingly unimportant going forwards and generally haven't done anything to justify being appeased? In addition, the end of book 5 could well be 2 years after Sadeas death and he'll probably be mostly forgotten by then. This is not to say that what Adolin did was perfectly acceptable or "right" either. With regards to bumping off characters just to raise the tension, that's actually a bad thing. Characters should be treated with more respect than that. In my mind, Shallan is someone who can find something to like about almost anyone, given time. The "given time" bit is important since she certainly doesn't always find people to be likeable immediately. If she finds someone less likeable as time goes on then that person's probably evil. I don't know for sure if this aspect of Shallan applies to romance as well but it wouldn't be a huge surprise. This is not to say that I can actually imagine specific scenes of her doing this with a wide variety of people. And this is not to say that "anyone will do" for Shallan either. Personally, I would find it unfortunate for Shallan's character if she's always the one on the "giving" side, the one making the sacrifices, the one who gets the short straw. She's so rarely been able to prioritise her own happiness, so rarely been given real help and and assistance. I find it hard to imagine Kaladin being particularly romantic and he seems much more likely to add to Shallan's stress. Adolin seems like the opposite, once he gets over his personal issues with relationships.

Interesting! Thanks. Nice to see some readers can see that there's more to Lightweaving than disguises. I suspect we won't get Lightweaver lasers until the 2nd half of the Stormlight Archive... but simpler things could happen sooner. Just being able to flash a bright light at enemies to temporarily blind them would be useful.

Well, there's only 9 D&D alignments. None of the characters fit perfectly into any of them, including Adolin. So overall I think "neutral good" is the best fit but that doesn't mean I think he never shows actions that fit more into other alignments. http://easydamus.com/neutralgood.html I'd say that Adolin fits most but not all of the above. I fear we've beaten this topic to death though If we consider WoR as it is up to the moment when Shallan reaches the Shattered Plains but with one difference, that Shallan had a causal with Renarin instead of Adolin, not much would have to be changed up to that point. But from that point on it's extremely hard to imagine it going the same way. If we consider when Shallan first met Dalinar, he didn't seem terribly keen on the causal. Would he have allowed it to continue if the causal had been Renarin with instead? It seems a lot less likely to me - the cost/benefit analysis is very different and also Dalinar is much more protective of Renarin. Particularly with Shallan being keen to keep herself independent, it's not too hard to imagine that Dalinar stops the causal before Shallan and Renarin even meet. But what if he did allow it, what then? It's hard to imagine it going well quickly, or at least anything like with Adolin. I'm not quite sure I agree with everything you say above but I overall I agree that there's lots of potential problems. Renarin would likely be very unwilling to go on public dates, for example, and if he did he would probably be very nervous. If Brandon had ever written this I think there would have been some very awkward meetings and it wouldn't have been so much fun for the reader. Renarin seems to be uneasy with strangers in general and I think he would have a lot of trouble opening up, especially with something like romance. I'm not sure that would be enough to make Shallan give up on him though - I'm pretty sure she would be willing to marry someone she doesn't (currently) like for the sake of her family. However, she would probably find it draining chatting with him. Maybe he would be more interested in her chasmfiend theory than Adolin but it's hard to imagine them getting intimate quickly. Shallan did not exactly have a lot of spare time on her hands so she might find it hard to justify spending enough time to make the causal work. Shallan does have experience with more "negative" characters like Renarin, eg her brothers, and would probably be much more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt than others but that's not the same as them working romantically. I'd say that its not impossible for Shallan and Renarin to get along, given time. I'm not quite sure what makes Renarin tick but I think that in different circumstances that Shallan could have at least gotten friendly with Renarin, eventually. Shallan is good at this sort of thing after all (it's rare for her to get along badly with others, particularly longer term). If we consider Brandon's original plans for WoR, Shallan and Jasnah were supposed to reach the Shattered Plains together - he even said once that the book might start with them arriving (or something like that). Clearly he changed a lot once he got into planning it. I've no idea when he changed Shallan's engagement partner but the whole situation would have been very different if Shallan and Jasnah had arrived safely. Shallan would have been fully supported by Jasnah and obviously she wouldn't be living separately. I'm not sure if Shallan would have had more spare time but if Jasnah had arranged a causal between Shallan and Renarin then surely she would have supported it, including giving Shallan spare time. So if we consider this alternative scenario : Shallan would have had the whole book to get to know Renarin, would have been able to meet him much more casually and frequently, and so on. So it could have worked but I find it hard to picture them being particularly romantic though. It would be interesting to know what Brandon's primary reason was. If the primary reason was because he tried to write some test scenes with Shallan and Renarin and found it hard going then they're probably not going to start getting along at a personal level for a while in the next book either. Maybe he decided it was just impractical to do within the constraints of WoR with Shallan arriving half-way through and everything else. Or maybe he tried some dialogue between Shallan and Adolin and found they clicked very quickly.

I don't remember Brandon confirming such things and couldn't find anything with a quick search. I have actually been depressed about the lack of interest in the Illumination surge so if anyone can point me to some WoBs on the subject that I've missed I'll be very happy.

Late reply time... Well, I spent I while researching this stuff I was arguing for Adolin to be in the "neutral good" group which is between "lawful good" and "chaotic good". You seem to be saying the same thing. Personally, I'm not that concerned that he changed his mind. He's been pretty clear that nothing is canon until it's written into a book and published so the fact that he changed his mind on something doesn't make it "less official" somehow. At a guess, Brandon tried out some test dialogue and scenes between Shallan and Renarin and found that they didn't work. My impression of Renarin is that his responses would be too soft/weak/plain and they wouldn't bounce off each other. PS I accidentally posted this reply early. Maybe I'll try to reply to the rest later...

I don't know if we'll see anyone revive their Shardblade but if it does happen it wouldn't surprise me if it takes a long time. To form a normal spren bond takes months normally. If reviving a Shardblade is a similar process but much much harder then it could take a lot longer - like well over a year.

Hmm. I couldn't find a poll on this. Bit hard to frame it as a poll really, though maybe there's some good options. I've certainly seen some posters who seemed to consider Adolin being quite "dark" for what he did and so on. I don't think there's any real disagreement that Sadeas was a nasty immoral guy and plenty of posters cheered his death. I think there was quite a lot of surprise that Adolin would do such a thing though. There's lots of levels on which this could be analysed. For Adolin himself, clearly he was not in his right mind at the time - it was not something he planned or prepared. It's easy to say there were better options but that's only under the assumption that Sadeas could be brought to justice in a timely manner and before he could cause even more harm, or those working on his behalf would cause even more harm. Clearly Adolin did not have the legal right to do what he did. Arguing whether it was "moral" or not depends on what your morality is and going by the various WoBs that maxal quoted, clearly there isn't one answer. Also, there's some Radiant orders who would completely support Adolin and some who would definitely be against him. I've no idea what the majority would be, though that won't matter in practice for the next book. I certainly think that Dalinar has some responsibility here, by being too tolerant of Sadeas. However, that doesn't absolve Adolin either.

Dalinar didn't even seem to want to try, that I remember. Not that I think Lightweavers were well known for being spies or that it'll be her most important activity as a Radiant, but Shallan could probably dig up all sorts of dirt if she tried. I wouldn't be surprised if Navani has been digging around as well. Yes, it cuts both ways. Adolin seems to be the type who would find it hard to reliably deny it though. Hard to say which way things would go : I think for his relationship with Shallan there is a significant risk that "the cover-up would be more damaging than the crime", but if things go down that route then maybe the challenge from outsiders (eg Ialai) would be small. Conversely, if he admits to it quite quickly (privately at least) then maybe the main "threat" will be external. She was responsible for the details of some of them but it was Sadeas who gave the order, as it were. I think Ialai is known for being dangerous. I also wouldn't be surprised if Navani wants some revenge for the leak of her notes on Dalinar's visions. I suspect we'll get some form of Ialai vs Shallan and/or Navani though I've no idea if it'll be a major sub-plot or something trivial.

If you're arguing about legal definitions then that'd depend on the country and the laws. I've been on a jurist on a trial for murder and where I am there are legal provisions for people who snap after long term abuse and it would be up to the jury to decide that, and in Adolin's case I think there'd be a reasonable chance that his actions wouldn't be counted as "murder" (though obviously depends on what information is available). I don't know if we'll see an actual legal trial but if there is it won't necessarily be good for Sadeas's supporters. After all, Sadeas has killed 10s/100s of officers and 1000s of soldiers within Dalinar's army - he'd also be guilty of attempted assassination of Dalinar, two proto Radiants and the actual death of everyone on the bridge (which included numerous officers and their wives). He also declared himself an enemy of the royal family which is straight up treason. So even legally there's no simple answer.

Good points. I don't remember everything I thought about possible ships for Adolin or Shallan before WoR came out but I certainly don't remember shipping them. I guess the consensus for Adolin was that he would end up with Danlan. I find them refreshing since I've seen way too many romances that started out with arguments. Having something closer to "love at first sight" is an even older cliché but it's been used so little lately that it feels refreshing (what's old is new again). Certainly Adolin/Shallan was surprising but Shallan by herself was surprising in WoR as well - I certainly didn't expect her to develop so quickly. In terms of what Adolin and Shallan have in common that could have some bearing on their relationship: They seem to prefer to relax. They are serious when the situation is serious but relax when they can. (Kaladin seems to find it impossible to relax) They prefer to get along with others where possible. They're fairly open about their emotions. Shallan can conceal her real emotions when acting though. They're not shy about interacting with members of the opposite sex. They might both be interested in "the arts" in general, though it's hard to be certain about Adolin. He enjoys fashion and seems to miss concerts, art shows, sculpture contests. They're willing to sacrifice themselves for their families. They're extremely good at things they're passionate about (drawing and duelling). They're their own worst enemy. They tend to be underestimated. I could go on but I'll stop here. It can be hard to get agreement on this sort of thing.

I looked up the timeline: when Shallan meets Adolin for the first time its the start of the 3rd week of the last month of the year. With 5 days per week and 10 weeks per month that means everything we see between them occurs within about 40 days and the first kiss occurred 27 days after they first met. It's not like they could meet every day either - that might have been their 10th meeting, or so. I don't have a problem with neither of them saying "I love you". It's early days yet and that's the sort of thing that should be said when you're certain - depending upon the culture and people involved of course. I'm don't see how you reach the conclusion that they don't work on an emotional level. They get along well with each other and enjoy being in each other's company.

Shallan rather bluntly tells Kaladin that she killed her own father. I suspect if she'd never said that or implied that then most people would say that Kaladin would have a big issue with Shallan for that. But he didn't - because Shallan explained the circumstances. How Shallan will react to Adolin's killing of Sadeas will depend on many things, some of which we have no way to predict. My personal opinion is that if Adolin explains himself to Shallan then she won't have an issue with it and might well support him - after all, she herself has been through painful situations which forced her to kill others so it might even help Shallan open up to Adolin about her own past as well. Shallan did not at all like what Jasnah did to the robbers but that didn't stop her from respecting (practically worshipping) Jasnah either. So if Adolin "comes clean" to Shallan I think things will be fine between them but if he doesn't then her reaction is much harder to predict. It's easier to imagine Adolin feigning innocence (a natural reaction) so Shallan's reaction might go through several stages as the situation develops. Likewise with Kaladin regarding Shallan's brother. Shallan was definitely angry with Amaram when she first found out but her attitude quickly softened when she thought through his (presumed) circumstances. So Shallan would probably be able to accept and forgive Kaladin for killing Helaran to protect others, so long as he explains things properly, but if he doesn't then it would depend on other things.

I enjoyed their interactions too and I don't think we'd be able to get the same kind of interactions if they became a couple (though obviously there would be new interactions). I remember some readers wondering if they might develop a sort of sibling relationship. It took me a while to wrap my head around that but I could imagine them being close enough to take pot shots at each other without it damaging their relationship but also having an underlying tone of respect or similar. Yeah, I enjoyed Shallan and Adolin together, Shallan and Kaladin together and also Adolin and Kaladin together. It would be nice to see those develop further, which would be unlikely to happen if Shallan and Adolin fell apart. Yep, that is a big problem with the trope. It's much nicer to have a real sense of progress.

It can be fun to speculate so I don't mind being wrong with predictions, so long as what actually happens is interesting (ie I'd rather have a nice surprise than be right). It's interesting to explore characters in depth - as seen with my long rambling discussions with maxal The main reason I support Shallan and Adolin is that they're cute and refreshing. They work together and it seems a waste to break it. I could write a lengthy post about why I disagree with some of your points, but instead I'll raise a general question: since they're both Radiants and assuming they'll continue to survive, then Shallan and Kaladin will inevitably have a relationship of some kind and it will be necessary for them to be able to get along (since if they're fighting with each other then they won't be able to achieve their common goal of saving the world). From that basis, what do you think Brandon would have done differently in WoR if he was always intending for them to have a non-romantic relationship? Or putting it another way, what about their interactions is specifically necessarily for a romantic relationship vs a non-romantic one? Also, if Brandon was always intending for Shallan and Adolin's relationship to go nowhere, then why devote so many pages to it? What's the goal?

The following is my interpretation - I'm not an expert on the details of these alignments. With regards to rescuing the prostitute, a classically "lawful good" character would not have ignored the situation (in fact they would be more likely to intervene than any character). Such a character would likely do one of the following: try to resolve the situation peacefully using a specifically stated authority, try to get the man arrested or possibly have the prostitute arrested too if it was clearly illegal (but make sure she has no serious injuries). If the end result was the man escaping, then a "lawful good" character would never been "tempted" to take up the prostitute's offer of a freebie - he might well have criticised her instead. He would very likely do what Adolin did and escort her to the perimeter but would likely do at least one the following as well: find an alternative job for her or give her enough money that she wouldn't need to rely upon prostitution or maybe give her a long lecture on morality. For a "chaotic good" character, if they did intervene in that situation at all, they would be more likely to mock the guy, would have been more likely to attack the guy or goad him into an attack if they considered him to be evil, they would be much more likely to take up the offer of a freebie (but wouldn't have intervened with that intention) but would have been unlikely to escort the prostitute to the perimeter. With regards to Dalinar's rules (or rather the pre-existing rules that Dalinar wanted to enforce), a "lawful good" character would have happily obeyed them and a "chaotic good" character would be likely to ignore them or work around them. Adolin obeys the rules but grumbles about them (which is more "neutral good") until he realises their purpose/value (which is more "lawful good"). With regards to Adolin staying in prison... hmm. There are cases when "lawful good" would do something like that - eg if the person considered himself "honour-bound to return the favour". But Adolin's stance is more like "I choose to do this" so fits more with "chaotic good". For Sadeas, a "lawful good" definitely wouldn't have made a surprise attack but might have issued a formal challenge (legal or honourable) - and actually would have been obliged to if Sadeas was considered to be "evil". So I agree that this feels more "chaotic good". Overall, I feel that it's unlike Adolin for him to take things to extremes - he's much more of a "moderate". So I think "neutral good" fits him quite well in general. His more extreme actions come in more extreme circumstances. Because Kaladin and Shallan are both major characters who will likely be working along side each other for more or less the same end goals, it's natural for them to have a "relationship" of some kind but it's a shame that the common expectation is that it "should" be a romantic relationship. There's a well trodden trope of characters starting out with a bad relationship where they disagree all the time but overcome their difficulties with time but that's not limited to "romance" either - "buddy movies" often start out like this as well. In the romance version of this trope, there's never a character like Adolin though - either such a character doesn't exist at all or is obviously not desired or the relationship isn't working. So clearly this isn't the simple version of this trope. Putting it another way: I feel that Brandon isn't specifically making those scenes romantic but rather relationship building in general (though obviously different readers will have different interpretations) I'd say what "others" think is irrelevant, and what Shallan and Adolin think is important. It doesn't matter what various rumours might say but what rumours Shallan has actually heard and what she thinks of them and the first thing she heard was that he's a "flirt". She considers him to be used to sophisticated women (implying that she doesn't consider herself to be one) but I don't remember her thinking Adolin should be a Casanova character. Adolin doesn't think he's one either. So I don't think the battle will be getting past the rumours but getting to the bottom of what's actually going on. With regards to Adolin's wandering eyes, I think we'll just have to take Shallan's word for it. They had quite a few dates off-screen or not from Shallan's point of view. My impression was this behaviour from Adolin was a habit that he doesn't really notice. Or putting it another way - this is a clue to Adolin's self-destructive behaviour that Shallan has already spotted. I didn't mean to imply that Renarin would have the answers, but he should be a good source of first hand information. I've no idea how useful his personal analysis of the situation would be. Adolin probably wouldn't want to talk about all his past failures with Shallan. That we saw, Shallan didn't actually hear that much about Adolin in advance with regards to relationships. We've also seen Shallan being quite capable of seeing past expectations since that's exactly what she did with Jasnah. I don't really want to say this but would call it prejudice... or even racist, but that's such a loaded word that I prefer not to use it. He expects the worst of lighteyes and considers them to be as bad as each other. That he doesn't particularly need to get to understand them individually since they're all bad. Slowly from the end of tWoK and through WoR he starts making exceptions and eventually makes a breakthrough to realise that he can't keep on doing what he's been doing. Kaladin certainly has problems with individual lighteyes but he also has problems with them as a group, which is why I use the term "prejudice". Just to be clear: I don't consider Kaladin to be evil or anything like that, nor do I hate him. I think he has various issues and is slowly getting over them. Just because he can be amazingly heroic that doesn't make him immune to other failings. I think that's what Brandon is aiming for - a hero with real flaws. There was certain moments in the book regarding Kaladin when I thought "uh-oh, this isn't going to go well", and that particularly moment was certainly the worst.

Yeah, the D&D system of alignments that includes "chaotic good" is more about people would or wouldn't do rather than their personality or attitude and there's lots of complaints about how useful they are in practice. It'd be much easier to design a character to fit neatly into one of those alignments than to retrofit a complex character into one. Also, although I would say Shallan is "chaotic good" and becoming increasingly so I think this only became clear in WoR - she was trying to force herself to be "lawful" (obedient) the last 6 years. But then again, even in WoR and future books I'm pretty sure she would do her best to keep a genuine promise which is much more "lawful good". Few of the characters neatly fit into these alignments. Kaladin probably feels like "chaotic good" in tWoK but if we consider the way his Oaths are taking him and his attitude towards lighteyes (to him they're basically "minions of evil" until near the end of WoR) and so on he feels like he's really a form of "lawful good" (more like "honourable good") and becoming increasingly so over time. I'd say that Adolin feels more like "neutral good" - although he has fought against his father trying to impose laws on him, that was more because he preferred how things had been until he saw the flaws in the system. In the general case, I don't think he has much of a problem with following laws and conventions - he doesn't naturally try to work around them. If he was sleeping with the girls he dated (love them and leave them) then that would fit into "chaotic" but he's not. He clearly prefers a fair fight over rigged games, hunting etc, which is more "lawful". His desire to help and protect his family members is very strong, which is more "lawful". Overall, he has quite a mild, relaxed and open attitude, which again feels more "neutral". Dalinar seems to have been "chaotic neutral" (or even "chaotic evil") when younger and is now firmly into "lawful good". Navani generally seems "lawful good" but will go "chaotic good" when it suits her. Jasnah seems similar - I think she'd like to be "lawful good" but is too pragmatic to let that limit her actions. Renarin I've no idea about. Lift is clearly "chaotic good" but seems to be edging towards "neutral good" recently. Szeth is "lawful neutral". The other drawing was of Shallash breaking a statue. Elhokar has been too much in the shadow of his father then Dalinar to grow into his own person. Similar reason why Brandon decided to remove Jasnah from Shallan - she wouldn't have grown enough otherwise. Maybe if Dalinar is focused more on "the world" and less on Alethkar then Elhokar will have room to grow at last. Yes, and their interactions don't have to be limited to "romantic" or "potentially romantic" either. I think it's a shame that so many readers latched onto the "potentially romantic" aspect of Shallan and Kaladin down in the chasms that the actual results within WoR were overshadowed, as if the "potentially romantic" aspect was the entire point of that sequence. But the effects within WoR were non-trivial since without Shallan gaining the knowledge from down there, the army wouldn't have been able to get to the center and Urithiru - it was critically important to the entire last section of the book. Also, it's doubtful that Kaladin would have made his breakthrough about lighteyes in general without having met Shallan and getting to understand her (or at least, he would probably have been too late) - again, critically important to the entire last section of the book. I don't think Adolin or Shallan would particularly disagree with this though. Adolin certainly doesn't believe he's a ladies man and Shallan has noticed that he's actually somewhat shy in practice (but does have wandering eyes). I agree on this bit. If Shallan does help Adolin get over his self-destructive issues (with relationships) then she would need to understand the problem(s) and the cause(s). Talking with Renarin to get a good idea with how Adolin typically behaved might be quite useful. I think the problem with Kaladin in WoR is that it wasn't quite setup enough in tWoK for most readers. There was hints in tWoK that he was unreasonably prejudiced against lighteyes (perhaps the best example being of how he tried to dismiss Adolin helping the prostitute) but since it ended on a positive note with him getting along well with Dalinar (seemingly) it didn't feel like that big a deal. From the first part of WoR, I was pretty sure that Kaladin was going to have problems with his relationship with lighteyes, though I was surprised at how dark he got.

No particularly specific predefined archetypes spring to mind. There is "chaotic good", which I'd say she fits in, but it's very broad and it's hard to think of any single fictional character that Shallan is clearly similar to overall: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChaoticGood Somewhat related, I haven't read it in a long time but from my vague memories Shallan does come across somewhat similarly to how Richard Feynman describes himself in "Surely you're joking, Mr Feynman": https://www.amazon.com/Surely-Feynman-Adventures-Curious-Character/dp/0393316041 He's more of a scientist who also took interest in other fields (such as drawing and music) while Shallan is closer to being the other way around... but they have quite a few things in common (and some obvious differences). Anyway, because of the difficulty in pigeon-holing her I suspect this is why we see some readers expecting her to become good at combat - if she morphed into a more common archetype it would be easier to understand her role in the story. btw, when I said "I suspect many readers wonder what she's even doing here", I meant it pretty much like the way you use the phrase "do not know what to do with her" here. Yep, that's what I suspect. Bit hard to be certain about some points though - there's always a certain amount of variability because of the specific circumstances. I'm not sure if I can explain it but consider this quote from WoR: Note at this point she's not in any immediate danger, though the overall situation is dire. When she was down in the caverns being chased by the chasmfiend and led it back to the corpses, I'm pretty sure she was in "coldness of clarity" (since she's very terse when talking to Kaladin during this time). Normally she would have had to draw out her path to exactly retrace her steps, yet she did it pretty much perfectly here. Basically, her problem solving abilities drastically increase and seem too good to be true for a normal human - she doesn't even need to consider the solution, she "just knows", it seems. Truthwatchers can see the future, so maybe Lightweavers have something similar but much weaker....? One thing I've wondered about is how "radiant spren" locate prospective people to form a bond with. I presume like normal spren they are attracted to certain emotions or whatever. Maybe if they're close enough and someone is channelling a particular emotion (the stronger the better) they can find and track that individual? Then they need to see if they can form a bond. I don't think they need to wait for cracks - pre-existing cracks should work fine. Anyway, Elhokar could be an example of a "near miss" - if so, we might be able to get a better idea of the requirements to form a lasting bond if the reasons for the miss are explained in-world. Yep. I was focusing my comments on Shallan since she would be the pivotal character for a hypothetical "love triangle" situation. Ignoring that specific aspect, no character is more important than the other. What particular aspect of Adolin's reputation do you consider to be a lie? I'm not saying there's no hidden aspects to it all - ie what exactly is behind Adolin's relationships falling apart hasn't been explained in-world but I wouldn't call that a "lie" (unless you're Pattern). However, in a sense I agree: in the same way that I expect Shallan to help fight against Odium's mental corruption, I also expect her to help with mental problems in general, whether big or small. I think it's quite likely that Lightweavers will be the mental healing specialists (in the same way that Edgedancers are the physical healing specialists). So, whether they end up together or not, I think it's quite likely that Shallan could help Adolin overcome his problems with forming long term relationships.

Generally, I don't have an issue with the way Brandon has done this sort of thing because it's highly realistic for the setting - as soon as money and power became involved, arranged marriages were very common whether it was between nobility or commoners. There's major differences between those examples though: Elantris: fairly conventional arranged marriage between royalty, couple had communicated by letter in advance and they supported it, but it was "dead on arrival". IIRC there was no actual marriage within the book so it's a bit hard to call it a success. Warbreaker: probably the sort of thing most people imagine when they think of an arranged marriage. Did work out in the end, yes. Mistborn: I would call this a marriage of convenience (for economic and political reasons) rather than an arranged marriage, since the couple in question were directly involved. This sort of thing was very common amongst the nobility on Earth. Shallan+Adolin: technically an arranged causal - both sides also had to agree in advance and were completely free to break things off at any time if they wanted to. Refreshingly for a prearranged meeting between a potential couple in fiction, they hit it off right from the start.

Although I'm a guy, in some ways I identify with Jasnah and in other ways I identify with Shallan... so either way I'm looking forwards to more interactions between Shallan and Jasnah Hope you have a nice career putting all that skill and knowledge to good use! I'm not sure if I can answer your question properly but here's some general thoughts on the subject. I don't know how much mental or physical trauma is required for someone to be "broken" enough for them to form a strong and persistent Nahel bond but clearly our proto Radiants aren't broken for real, "only cracked" as Pattern described Shallan. In-world a lot of characters have referred to themselves or others being "broken" and in this sense it's very vague - it's all up to personal interpretation. Being broken enough (or rather, cracked enough) to form a strong Nahel bond isn't something we can determine in advance either. I suspect there's quite a wide scope for someone to be "broken enough to form a strong Nahel bond but not broken for real". I wouldn't be surprised if Kaladin and Shallan are close to the extreme edge of being broken for real and shouldn't be taken as being "typical". For example, I doubt many people would consider Jasnah to be broken (in the in-world sense not spiritweb sense) but she's definitely a proto Radiant and has had some past trauma - is she just really good at concealing it or was it relatively mild or a mix of both? We have no real way to tell without finding out her background. I think most people would say that Renarin seems more obviously broken than Dalinar but from a spiritweb point of view is that really the case? Dalinar could be more broken, but perhaps is better able to cope with it - just no real way to tell. So in the case of Adolin and Elhokar, who is the more broken? There's no real way to answer this without a WoB but I would put my money on Elhokar currently, though things might change in the next book. Are either of them above the threshold where their spiritweb is broken enough such that they can form a strong Nahel bond? Again, no real way to answer this - it could be both, it could be neither, it could be just one of them. However, the strange events around Elhokar in tWoK does hint that perhaps he is above the threshold or close. It could also be that his personality/actions didn't fit - maybe a bond started to form but because he wasn't able to progress the bond dissipated. With regards to what makes me think Elhokar is more broken, I would point to his extreme paranoia - he's so bad that he fabricated an assassination attempt on himself. Which is also the sort of lie that I'm sure Cryptics would like. I don't know if we'll get an in-world answer to what was happening with Elhokar but it feels that one is overdue.

No problem - these things happen. This is just my current opinion based on limited evidence: Sons of Honor - evil because they want to cause wide-scale suffering for something most people don't want. Diagramists - evil/neutral because their while their final objective is notionally "good" (and desired by everyone) their methods are terrible and their intermediate steps are incredibly self-serving and liable to go wrong to the extent that I believe it would never work in practice. Ghostbloods - evil/neutral because all their members seem evil/neutral.

To add to my comment above about the possibility of a "weak love triangle"... Thinking it through, perhaps the "best" in-world reason for doing such a thing would be to kick Shallan's reluctant brain into action. Referring this habit: If she's having problems with Adolin, she might well take refuge in this bad habit and basically ignore it. However, it would probably be much harder for her to do that if she's also having "moments" with Kaladin because she would inevitably compare the two. (Hopefully that makes any sense...)