OldFilthyCasual

The Kaladin Stormblessed Center for Kids Who Can't Fly Good

And Who Wanna Learn to Lash Other Stuff Good Too.

Buy. It's odd and unique. I like the idea.

The entirety of the Cosmere is founded on the concept of multiverse theory being tied into CERN style research on modern Earth. The shattering is the textual equivalent to the work done at CERN, much like atoms breaking up into ~17 sub particles (shards). 6 types of leptons ( which are not strongly interactive, looking at you Bavadin), 6 quarks (strongly interactive, hi Odium), 4 Bosons ( force particles that carry out the "fundamental interactions of nature", here we have Ruin, cultivation etc.) Having established the source and characteristics of the 16 Shards of Adonalsium/ Atoms, we have one remaining mystery. Hoid is the Higgs, the unknown.

Oh man I'm going to flesh this out into a more robust theory over my weekend and post it for discussion.

@RShara

@Subvisual Haze

11/10 Posts

Young Dalinar - Surfeit

Old Dalinar - Paramount / Paternal / Grossly Incandescent

Gavilar - Harbinger

Odium - Deleterious

Adolin - Candid

Moash - Anathema

Lift - quixotic (def 2)

Wyndle - Surly

Sadeas - Rapacious

Szeth - Somber

Shallan - Multifaceted

Pattern - Fractal

Mraize - Clandestine

Hoid - Prescient / Conductor

Taravangian - Tool (double entendre)

Cultivation - Surreptitious (Making things in secret, like TOOLS)

Syl - Maternal

Kaladin - Icarian (Bro, stop running out of stormlight)

"I will kill who I must, to save who I can."
 

So many good ones, my first several thoughts have already been covered. So I'll mix it up with the first time Szeth comes for Elhokar in the hallways during the highstorm (WoR chpt 32 "The One Who Hates"). Crazy fight scene, the changes in perspective offers some really cool camerawork opportunities (thinking Matrix / Inception hallway scene). Also, the Last Clap. I picture a slow motion scene with Adolin screaming and reaching out fearing for his father's life, absolute pandemonium, and Dalinar just catches the falling sword in midair. Woooo.

The whole Shallan - Kaladin - Adolin thing became a bit tiresome. I suppose that is clouded by personal feelings though, as I generally do not enjoy romance. If there was as heated an argument over the best scene in the series, I would be writing a dissertation length piece about "To Kill the Wind". Everyone has their thing.

I don't like it when a person attempts to quantify suffering to determine who can or cannot become a Radiant. I hate to even call it a topic, but I feel its played out, and distasteful.

10 hours ago, Chaos said:

Thanks for keeping this topic civil, everyone! I'm so happy  

I don't post often, but I have been coming here nearly every day for about 3 years now. Part of what drew me to this site originally (other than an outright carnal need for answers) was how generally mature and thoughtful the discussions are on these forums. I wish the 17th shard ran the fandom for any number of other interests of mine. As a group, the folks who frequent this site are just fantastic.

*Edit- Missed opportunity for horrific wordplay.

13 hours ago, maxal said:

I definitely agree with the second one. I would add there are no textual evidence nor WoB I am aware of which states a Radiant should have Plate after the fourth ideal. Also, knowing most Skybreakers stagnate at the third order seems to indicate not all Radiants ever made it to the fourth/fifth oath and yet all had access to the Plate. I say, they all have access to it, they just do not know how to manifest it yet.

Oathbringer, From the Urithiru Gem Archive Epigraphs, Chapter 86, " "My spren claims that recording this will be good for me, so here I go. Everyone says I will swear the Fourth Ideal soon, and in so doing, earn my armor. I simply don't think that I can. Am I not supposed to want to help people?" "

Not necessarily proof. Perhaps it is different for the different orders.

Your point about knowing how to manifest the armor is something I had not thought about before, I just assumed it would be a "stretch for thy hand" kind of moment.

There was a test at some point that named me Willshaper. Seemed pretty in line with the way I view myself so I'll run with it.

4 hours ago, Ookla the Variable said:

TEAM VENLI ASSEMBLE!!

WILLSHAPERS ROLL OUT!!!!

My go-bag is ready.

12 minutes ago, aurik said:

and came across Adolin's observation that the Ryshadium are sometimes referred to as "the third Shard".

I simply took this to represent how well a Ryshadium aided a full shardbearer in battle. Normal horses struggle to carry the weight of someone in shardplate, I don't have access to my copies of the books ATM but I believe there are more than one reference to this fact in the series so far. If memory serves Dalinar accidentally breaks the back of the horse he is riding in one of the flashbacks in OB.

5 minutes ago, smearedblackink said:

He sees himself as inferior to his father in just about all regards and living in his father's shadow has tainted his perception of his self-worth. We start to see a bit of his personal wants and needs in so far as his desire to lead his own life and be his own man when he turns down kingship. His inner conflict between his desire to perform his duty and be his own man I think will start to define his character as the story progresses.

With the return of the KR and his father's new position in the world Adolin's life has been turned upside down. He is no longer as relevant as he once was and his position in his family has changed dramatically. He suddenly has much more freedom and can carve out his own path in life. Where once he was bound by duty, he now can pass a lot of that off to other people, including his younger brother Renarin, who has suddenly gone from the sickly youth to a powerful KR. In fact Renarin is not only a KR, but a unique one! This has the potential to make Adolin feel even more unimportant as he used to be idolized by his younger brother, and while that may not necessarily change from Renarin's point of view, it will almost certainly change from Adolin's. 

We're beginning to see Adolin's self-worth diminish as everyone around him changes and become more and more important while he fades into the background. His discussion with Shallan towards the end of OB shows this. He doesn't feel that he has anything to offer Shallan as compared to Kaladin. Initially Shallan came to their relationship with everything to gain, now Shallan is the vastly more important person in their relationship.

Also, I've seen it said that Adolin was raised with a silver spoon in his mouth and that he was sheltered. I would argue that, while he certainly had every advantage, he was anything but sheltered. He was raised in war, expected to fight and risk his life almost daily, and to live up to his father. I think that he is most certainly "damaged", just in a more subtle way, and that we will likely see this affect his personality more and more as the story progresses.

I feel like our views are similar, and you brought up some of my thoughts in a way I could not articulate at this hour. +1

Cheers!

I enjoy Adolin for a number of reasons.

He doesn't have any super powers, and this perspective is in my opinion well executed upon to the readers benefit. I would draw a loose parallel to the character Croaker from the black company series. When you have a world in which characters nonchalantly wield neigh-godlike powers, I find it very grounding to observe the awe inspiring events that unfold from the perspective of a character who isn't a superhero.

I identify with his character and his little mentioned struggles. Many speak of Kaladin having lived such a rough life, I don't want to downplay the trauma he's experienced in the past few years, but much of his life was one of relative privilege as well. I don't mean to imply that these two upbringings are in any way comparable, merely that Kaladin has not lived an entire lifetime of abject suffering. His struggles to save and help only to fall short are heart wrenching, but they are relatively recent.

I don't have the exact #'s but I believe Adolin is only 3? years or so older than Kaladin. Maybe this is purely me projecting myself onto a character, but I see Adolin as a person who has spent his entire life feeling inadequate while trying desperately to to find a sense of accomplishment for his own deeds. I try and focus on the fact that he was brought up in the Alethi society; a culture of rank, religion, propriety, and war. His dad is Dalinar, you know, the Blackthorn. The. Blackthorn.

Oh Adolin, that's so cute that you fence well, have you ever engaged in a solo full frontal assault on a fortress? Nice shards, did you earn them in glorious battle like your dad? Oh they were given to you. I heard you handled yourself passably at that fancy party, shame you've never conquered a society of warlords and forged them into a unified kingdom. You talk to your sword? Your dad talks to God. You finally got married, your father did as well...first. It was officiated by a splinter of the Almighty, I heard someone gave a nice speech at yours though... I used to think you were at least a better Alethi than your little brother.. oh wait he glows and sees possible futures and is some awesome new type of super hybrid mega radiant. That really big rock monster that made you feel powerless? It stepped on him and the only result was the monster losing a foot. Good job not quite bleeding to death though.

He has almost his entire life striving toward perfection as a soldier and noble and the only time I recall his efforts being lauded onscreen instead of him being corrected or stripped down was when he was cut loose to duel and earn shards.

I guess I see him as someone who wants to be able to have impact and make the world better, and feels like nothing he does ever adds up to substance.

Honestly, I don't understand how so many people find him bland. I think he has tremendous depth of character, we just haven't spent 800+ pages swimming in just how complicated he is. (I'm looking at you Shallan).

20 hours ago, Chinsukolo said:

she used a color for a curse (crimson).

Yea that was the moment for me.

If by hate you mean like Joffrey, then the answer is Moash. I dislike him because he is detestable. Traitor.

If you mean from a literary perspective then the answer is Shallan, I don't have to delve into the current political maelstrom of opinions regarding her, I just find that her chapters drag. I find that for me, this is largely due to her "level up" moments feeling a bit anticlimactic in comparison to the other's witnessed onscreen so far.

Kaladin has failed an ideal twice when I would have sworn it was coming in that chapter, and I STILL found those moments more of a developmental climax than any moment Shallan has had.

Four on one duel. "To Kill the Wind" is hands down my favorite chapter in the series so far.

11 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

And some people don’t like her. I just don’t get it. Yeah she’s goofy sometimes but she’s clinch when it counts (in a hilarious way too).

To each their own. I can see how for some her character could break the fourth wall. I find her odd mix of wisdom and naivete to be both endearing and insightful.

Wow,

Thanks for responding KC, read your post and went to the coppermind to clarify. I had totally missed the character being a world hopper, but it feels good to know my Brandon senser is functioning properly. So we haven't identified who he works for or where his motives lie. I wonder if he is employed by the shard or silverlight, or perhaps a servant of a more nefarious presence in the cosmere.

I think my first post here despite years of lurking was this question in regards to WoR. So here goes.

"Where you... thinkin' you'd fight them all on your own?" Lift said. "With a book?"

"There is something else for me to fight here."

"...With a book?"

"Yes"

She shook her head, "Sure, all right. Why not? What do you want me to do?"

The girl didn't match the ideal description of a Knight Radiant. Not even five feet tall, this and wiry, she looked more urchin than soldier.

She was also all he had.

"Do you have a weapon?" he asked.

"Nope. Can't read."

I respect Dalinar, hes a noble character, inspiring, wise, stoic. I identify with Kaladin, he struggles, he overcomes, he tries. I adore Shallan, she is quippy, fun, and is a great representation of that all to human quest to discover our self. So many of the characters in this story posses tremendous meaning to me. Now that being said, pardon the hyperbole.

Lift is the greatest character that has ever happened in anything. Ever.

This is my first time starting a thread, and I'm in a rush before leaving for work. My apologies if the title/tagging is improper. Also I have no idea how to do spoiler inserts.

I have taken to reading BS novels twice upon release. Once at warp speed, as I MUST have the new story development as soon as possible. A second time much more slowly, digging for tiny details. I was going through the Dalinar flashbacks looking for missed details and something stood out that I haven't seen mentioned here yet. If I simply missed the thread my apologies.

Chapter 114 "The Cost"

Dalinar describes Felt as being Shin in appearance, that he doesn't have epicanthic folds but instead posseses, "Long, drooping mustaches and pale skin."

While Dalinar and Felt are discussing his pending visit to the NW, Felt admits she did not visit him, claiming

"Well, as best I could figure, she doesn't like foreigners"

"I might have trouble too."

"Your a little less foreign, sir"

On one hand, this could simply be a geographical observation on the part of Felt and I'm reading into to detail that doesn't exist. On the other hand, Brandon wrote this. So my thoughts are as follows.

If the Shin are the trueblood descendants of the original humans that arrived on Roshar with their god Odium, perhaps the NW still holds a grudge against them for the invasion of her world? The other ethnic groups of Roshar have all mingled with the local populace on some level. The Horneaters / Herdazians are WoB'd to be part listener, perhaps there is some level of interbreeding for the Alethi far enough back to make them Rosharan enough for the NW to accept them when she would deny a boon to a pureblood Shin.

Also, can this statement by Felt be taken as a sign that he knows more than the average footsoldier should be aware of. Is there perhaps something deeper involved in Dalinar's visit to the NW, Odium claims to have been with him from the beginning, sculpting him to be a future champion. Maybe, Odium was not the only force manipulating him from behind the scenes. I feel like I'm just spitballing here but for some reason that particular sentence screamed "YOU ARE MISSING SOMETHING" to me when I read it a second time, any thoughts?

Other note, who was the person, centuries ago, that was the last visit inspiring a direct visit from Cultivation? The Sunmaker? Wit? I feel like she is telling us a lot here and I'm just missing it.

Happy Turkey Day to those celebrating!

Cheers!

I seem to have a less common result. Not quite where my headcanon had me placed, but I can work with this

72% willshaper

53% dustbringer

34% stonewarden

31% edgedancer

Add a drop of sky breaker and a bit of lightweaver and that's me.

My desperate attempt to single out one scene amongst perfection. I'd have to go with Kaladin's arrival at the final battle on the shattered plains. This one really resonated with me, I think it's what the word choice implies given the context of Alethi society.

"His eyes afire with a light that somehow made the assassins seem dull by comparison, he wore the uniform of a bridgeman, and bore the glyphs of slavery on his forehead."

"To kill the wind" takes the cake as far as whole chapters go. Brandon is so good at manipulating the reader that it can be frightening. I spent that whole chapter pacing my living room fist-pumping the sky waiting for Kaladin to explode with light and wreck everyone.

I had my own head-cannon going for how it would happen, basically the showdown with Moash but with Adolin as the one in need. I partially predicted the oath, oh man I thought I had it all figured out. I was wrong. And I was emotionally devastated when it ended the way it did. To me, the ability to stimulate such strong emotions has always been the hallmark of great writing. So there's my up of the hat to Brandon for the ruthless gut punch being so well delivered.

Cheers!