Yados

Since Sazed is in control of a power that literally created sentient life on Scadrial, spiritwebs and all, you'd think he, at least, could create hemalurgic spikes with pre-loaded spiritweb bits. Sort of like Hemalurgic Lerasium.

Yeah, but Penrod's was so small he didn't even know it was there... I think. I'd also have to check the book.

Well Vin's was just an earring and it gave her enough power to pierce copper clouds.

Do we know that's how Allomancy works?

I see. And is this your first visit to the Internet?

But it's been a part of Earth's history because our world is brimming with land and resources. There's profit. The parts that aren't full of things we like or use, like Antarctica or the bottom of the Ocean or the Moon, go pretty much unexplored. They also have the Words of Founding, supernaturally fertile soil in the Elendel Valley, and a God who likes them and sometimes gives them guns if they ask nicely. Our world existed at a technological equilibrium for thousands of years. Who knows when these peoples hit an industrial revolution. Or even if they had the necessary resources to do so.

Who says they even know if there's anything at the other pole? If 90% of the planet is inhospitable to life, they presumably haven't sunk much of their research into long-range travel.

As far as I know, there are only a few things we know about the people on the other side of Scadrial. 1) The Lord Ruler knew about them and used them as a "control" when he did the things he did to the Final Empire. He didn't change them into Skaa or Noble. They don't, presumably, have any Lerasium running through their bloodlines/spiritual-dna bloodlines. Which means even if they have Allomancers, they're just Mistings and they always have been. 2) They have had 1000 years of technological advancement, largely unfettered by TLR. 3) As per the Reddit, AMA, they use Scardriel's magic differently. More "mechanically" I believe. Only knowing these things, I'm going to make a stab at how these people do whatever it is they do. Metal on Scadrial, doesn't have magic inside of it. It allows Allomancers to access Preservation's power, which then invests them directly. But if you had a population without any known Allomancers (or very, very few) and you gave them enough time, perhaps they could figure out a way to "burn" those metals without doing so internally. Sort of like splitting an atom, or the slower process you see in a nuclear power plant, but instead of the energy released coming from the thing being split or breaking down into energy, the molecular structure of the metal is serving a a microscopic "Aon," creating a small portal to Preservation's power, allowing these people to harvest Investiture. What could they do with this Investiture? I don't really know. Hemalurgy springs to mind, however. This would be a "clean" way of investing a Spike, allowing a population to experiment with Hemalurgy without the limitations (both moral and by the relative scarcity of allomancers) placed on Hemalurgy in the Final Empire. There's still an energy cost in Investing the Spike, which keeps the process entropic, but since the people on the other continent can't use the Investiture as an Allomancer would, it's less noticeable. And a population that either doesn't have or (or perhaps doesn't like) the idea of Allomancers, wouldn't necessarily use Spikes to grant Allomantic or Ferchemic ability (even if they could without using Hemalurgy to sever off a piece of a Spiritweb). They're more likely use them as TLR did to create things like Kandra, Inquisiters, and Koloss. Enhancements. Maybe just like Blessing allow Kandra to be stronger or smarter, these people could create sentient animals or physically/mentally augmented humans, or humans that would have a good enough constitution to withstand more conventional bionic enhancements for combat or space travel. This is my stab at it, based on what BS has said. I guess my main idea is just tat these people have found a way to access preservation's power through the metal without burning internally/biologically.

That could just mean that Clubs was a good man who was also a Smoker. Since you need a Smoker on every crew, there are more likely than not some pretty shady/untrustworthy individuals that crews have to put up with. Or maybe his smoke is just the smokiest. To address your main point: We've batted around that, Cosmere-wide, Smokers can probably hide all forms of Investiture from all magics that would be able to detect them, yeah? On Roshar, there are fabrials (and probably surges) of detection. Perhaps Smokers would be able to foil these. On Nalthis, perhaps a Smoker could make an Awakener look like he/she only had one breath instead of five billion. Maybe both color-wise and as it applied to that life-sense that people with breath have. Actually, that could be a thing. Allomancers don't have any visual indicators that they're using their magic. Awakeners and Surgebinders do, however. Maybe Copperclouds would shield those types of magic users in more obvious ways.

But if this were the reason why savants happen, wouldn't all savants change the same way? They're all, by this theory, being warped by steady investiture of Preservation, yet their symptoms vary by which metal they burn.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. It's a utilitarian distinction. If you're swimming underwater or there's a poisonous gas around, you can go without breathing BECAUSE you're oxygenating your own blood. That alleviates the necessity of breathing. You can also use the power to supplement your own breathing at a time when just breathing won't cut it. Like running a marathon. You do that by tapping your cadmiummind for oxygen. You could also get rid of your need to breath, but why do it? By breathing anyhow, you cut down on the power stored in the metalmind you're using. You could, of course, run a marathon underwater or in an area filled with poisonous gas, but you'd be using more cadmiumminds. So you would normally do one or the other.

Well then, they can oxygenate their blood without breathing. That means that they can: 1) Go without breathing or 2) Supplement their regular breathing with extra oxygenation from their cadmiumminds in time of exertion or other need. If they're doing 2, they don't technically need to breath, they could just tap more cadmium. But if they need to boost, they should try to get as much oxygen from breathing as they can so as to not waste the power stored in their metalminds.

It could be a process more efficient than breathing, which could make it easier on them to run or do strenuous activity for long periods of time. Edit: I hope not, though, as that is a benefit of the blood-based magic system in a book I'm writing. Probably just breathing under water. I'm sure that's the case.

Well, that's a good point. Didn't Honor make reference to her in the present tense in Dalinar's last vision?

Well Jasnah could have visions from Cultivation and still be an atheist. Cultivation isn't god. It's a space alien whose consciousness was grafted onto a metaphysical force that was either created or worshipped by another alien culture before it broke. Jasnah might be very aware of that fact if she's getting visions from it. I'm reminded of "Radio Free Albemuth." This isn't to mention that, as a fully intact and alive Shard, Cultivation could probably just show up and talk to Jasnah if she wanted.

Oh man, this thread went on long after I went to sleep. Shivertongue, when I said I didn't think we were going to have a fruitful discussion, I meant because we seemed to be coming from very different premises about what a forum is supposed to be. Also, I think you think that the reason for these posts was some dissatisfaction on my part with my current rep. It wasn't. I think my rep is appropriate for how long I've posted here, how involved I've been, and the types of discussions I usually get involved with. I made myself pretty clear that my main concern wasn't myself getting downvoted (let's face it, if that concerned me, I wouldn't have made this thread) but that when new, casual, annoying people are downvoted, it's way more likely that they're going to get a big red thing and insulting (not to mention kind of ableist) moniker. Which I can't imagine makes them feel welcome. Chaos appears to have agreed with that sentiment and is changing the downvote system to address it. I support that. I don't really care enough about my own rep to make a big thing of it. But when I see new people get slapped with a forum badge of unpopularity, I can't help but find it unfriendly and unwelcoming. I care about that a bit. Enough to make the thread, anyhow. I have no idea what the rest of this thread looks like. I kind of skimmed it. I think Satsouni posted something about his/her own rep, which wasn't really on point to what I was talking about. Then everyone posted about how it isn't a big deal. To that, I'd point out that if it isn't a big deal, then we don't need reps to go into the negative. Why do we need a system for the community to designate someone as a pariah (but still allow them to post here because they haven't done anything bad, just unpopular). Regardless, Chaos has addressed my concerns adequately and politely. And for that I thank him. I'm glad it'll be harder for new posters to get slapped with a badge of unpopularity, even if some people think they deserve it. We cool?

... yeah. Shivertongue, I don't think we see this the same way at all and I don't think we are going to have a fruitful discussion on the merits of any system of popularity. We do not agree on this at all. If you are submitting something for criticism or asking someone their opinion, then criticism is expected and appropriate. If you are posting in an online community for people who like an author's books, which is advertised on the author's site as a place for people to come and talk about books, then arbitrary, anonymous, systemized criticism is neither expected nor appropriate. If people are having a discussion, then criticism of a particular idea or premise is appropriate within the confines of that discussion. Articulated criticism. From one person to another person. (Sort of) face to face. This is not even a little bit the same thing and it does all the things that you say criticism shouldn't do. It isn't constructive. It isn't on point. It's just a number that follows someone from thread to thread without any context. And it doesn't, as you said, bring anything to the forefront. Unless, I guess, you don't read anything by posters with low rep. This isn't a reddit system where higher repped posts are more visible. That's a whole different thing. If this was a post by post system, I wouldn't have these concerns.

Well I certainly didn't mean to come off as if I was demanding something or imply that "my change is the only way". I tried to ask a question. Do we need this? If it came off differently, that was probably a mixture of haste (I was writing at work) and not realizing I had hit upon something that appears to be a sensitive issue. Certainly, my suggestions to what I perceived to be a problem aren't rooted in anything I know about site moderation. Like I said, I don't have any experience Reading your post though, you seem to be responding more towards my perceived tone than the things I pointed out. Maybe you see more of one thing than another thing. There's probably more going on behind the scenes of the site. I just see the surface stuff. Regardless, I wanted this to be more of a discussion. I think you perceived it as an attack and responded accordingly. Look, I posted because I saw something I thought was a problem. We get newer posters and they get negative reps. Sometimes because they make a lot of threads or do something else annoying. They sometimes disappear. You, apparently, don't think that's a problem. You didn't respond to that part of my post. You didn't even respond to my suggestion that we get rid of negative rep (-1, -2, -10) and the big red thing and "lamespren" label that comes with it. You just said no and that it sounded like my other suggestions, which were bad. I guess that meant getting rid of negative rep was a bad idea too? I'm still not sure it is. I don't see why we need big red things on some poster's avatars that tell whichever thread they post in that they're unpopular on the boards. What is the purpose of that? If you want some people to have some rep and some people to not a lot of rep and for that to be somewhat meaningful because the same people who upvote, based on their own subjective ideas of what deserves to be upvoted, can also downvote something based on another set of idiosyncratic ideas about what that's supposed to mean, then fine. The system isn't that onerous. But why not put a floor on that? The red things are not friendly. They are not nice. And most of the people who get them are just hapless casuals.

I understand why we have an upvote system and I like earning reputation posts as much as anyone does. But there's obviously something else going on with downvotes. For one, everyone gets to decide for themselves what the criteria is for a downvote, which makes it inherently subjective and almost impossible to avoid. As is upvoting, of course, but it doesn't have the same potential to drive posters away. And that, I suppose, is the ultimate problem with the downvotes. They're stacked against newer posters, who come on here, make a few threads that theorize or assume things that other posters don't like or otherwise clash with whatever imagines that the board's aesthetic is supposed to be, get downvoted into the negative, and then get downvoted even more for having a (usually pretty minor by internet standards) outburst. This has happened on at least two occasions I've seen, probably more times I haven't seen. And since this seems to happen to new posters, even if only one or two people downvote them, that usually puts them in the red. And then they have a big red sign on all their posts that reads "Lamespren" which, in some cases, drives them away. So I have to wonder what we gain from this system that allows semi-anonymous bullying that more likely than not disproportionately affects newer posters. Besides, of course, a more insular niche community. And being an insular niche community would be an okay thing to be, I suppose, were this not "The Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite". Doesn't that obligate us to be a bit more inclusive and tolerate people who annoy us or are engaging with the subject matter in a different way? If someone is breaking forum rules, then surely the admins can deal with that, right? We don't have to pin a big red letter on all their posts. We don't need this separate system of forum vigilante justice. Do we? I've come with four solutions. I don't know if any of them are feasible because I do not know anything about making forums or websites. Just using them. 1) Get rid of negative rep points. 2) Hide negative rep points. If someone has negative points, the counter just goes to zero and it doesn't go off zero until the points have a positive balance. 3) Disable downvotes. Because, really, what do we gain? 4) Disable the rep system. Because if we can only have both or none, none is probably better.

Yeah, I think that's part of the Lightweaver package. There's mention of him doing something like this in one of the WoK interludes as well.

Well who know what Oathgates/Radiants could do? Also, if the Shard-Holders "live" in the Spiritual Realm, then Shadesmar, presumably, would be the place closest to Honor that humans could physically travel to. If humans could visit the Spiritual Relam, it would probably have a name.

Alternatively, it could be in Shadesmar at the site of the Purelake. Wouldn't that still satisfy everything in your theory? Water = Land in Shadesmar, right?

We really don't know much about who Hoid really is or what Kelsier has become in the 300 years since his death in Final Empire. But this hopefully means we'll find out both before everything is said and done.

Do you want to explain?

If Jasnah dies, I hope her POVs continue on. An atheist in the afterlife seems too good a set up for Sanderson to pass up and, with the Tranquiline Halls mythos built into Vorinism, coupled with the idea that Shards like Endowment can do things with dead souls before they're dead-dead... It could be more likely than we think. I think I said it in another thread, but when you consider conscious Shard against conscious Shard in a conflict where their intents don't cancel one another out... well, the afterlife seems a pretty good place to station your army. On another note, if Jasnah is revealed to be gay, I will also laugh. I will laugh low and satisfied chortles, because, like Kaladin, Jasnah is a strong and well developed character with no established sexuality in what is poised to be a very long, popular, and successful fantasy series. If Jasnah is gay, then that would a bold and appreciated move from Sanderson. I don't think she is though.