Kal973

The listeners seem to be the native people of Roshar. Couldn't the Tranquilline Halls be another planet ? Humans could have been implanted on Roshar after an exile they don't remember anymore ? Otherwise, Roshar may have changed after a big cataclysm. The fauna and flora remembers me of the seabed. The entire planet could have been covered by the sea and then the continent of Roshar could have emerged from the sea. Shinnovar would have been the highest spot of the mountains pre-cataclysm and the only spot that was not covered by the sea, that's why the specific fauna and flora we can see there was not destroyed. Humans could have flee Roshar before the cataclysm and come back centuries later to find a new form of sentient life (the listeners) was already living on the planet. It seems that the desolations cause a great deal of destruction, and the complete collapse of civilisation when they occur. Maybe the cataclysm that lead Roshar to be covered by the sea was a desolation. A big one. And by then humans had developped enough science to travel through space and find shelter on another planet they don't remember anymore because another desolation occured after their come back on Roshar, erasing their memories of their journey, of their technology...

I don't think Adolin will die, even in the end. I think that he will be king of Alethkar in the end, and that he will embrace his role as a leader after a long arc that will lead him through a complicated path. Kaladin will probably be one of his closest friends on this path, during his darkest moments, helping him not to loose himself. In the end, I see Adolin on the throne with Shallan and Renarin to help him reign as a good king. And I think that, by then, Kal will probably be dead, and dearly remembered by those who love him. He will be dead because he will sacrifice his life to try and save everyone else. It's not only because of Fleet's story. It's the way his character has been written from the beginning. I think that he is the champion who will fight the great duel. Or maybe it's more complicated than that. Maybe Adolin is meant to be the champion (after all, we hear a lot about his duelling skills) and Kal will take his place/ or he will have to lead another fight in order to allow the duel to take place. I don't know, but I'm sure that Kal will die a hero, while Adolin will live to be king.

Daxos, I agree with what you say. I think that the Kaladin we see in WoK is more mature than the one that is portrayed in WoR, as if WoR had been written before WoK, as if WoK was showing us the ultimate version of Kaladin, the man (the living legend ?) that he was meant to be in the mind of BS when he first imagined him. Kal was my favourite character in the first book. While reading, I found him so compelling in his struggles, in his doubts, and in his oaths, that I bought him completely. I found him very pure of heart in his intentions to protect those who need it. And in the end of WoK, the way he fights is almost divine. Maybe that was the problem. Maybe WoK showed too much of the evolution that the character was destined to know in the end of the serie... and then, what ? Maybe by writing him this way from the beginning BS arrived a dead end. In fact, his arc in WoR made me feel that he had regressed in many ways and I didn't like it. In WoK, he appeared as a great fighter and as a selfless man, almost the figure of a savior. Even when it was hard for him to fight his depression, he was wise and thoughtfull. And he always thought about the men he had to protect, in an obsessive way. To see this Kaladin, the one I first embraced, become a grumpy child, too proud for his own good and obsessed with vengeance, was sometimes very difficult. It made him appear more human, of course. But I would have prefered to see his flaws first and his heroic side then. It would have been easier for me to empathize with him...

Guys, I'm French. I'm trying. Don't laugh .

At least, it IS epic.

This are the oaths we would NEVER swear

I will go to bed early

"Kaladin" said Shallan, surprised to see him. "What are you doing here ?"

"I'm a Stick". "You are Fire". "I'm a Stick". "My friend, I understand that what you are inside may not fit your appearance. But if you don't try to change the way you look like, it will be hard for simple minded people like me to recognize your true identity. I mean, come on, it must be very difficult to argue with every person you meet about your Sticky nature before they see the Stick in you..." " ???" "No offense. You may be a Stick, but believe me, you don't look like one" (Shows Fire) "This. From my point of view, this is a Stick. This looks like a Stick. This feels like a Stick. This behaves in a very Sticky way. On the other hand, you may feel that you are a Stick deep Inside... but, sorry to say so, you still look like Fire." "I'M A STICK !" "Well, I'm not sure. I mean, where is the proof ? If you could just try to transform your appearence, it would really be easier for me to see the Stick in you. True Sticks, fierce sticks, beautiful sticks do look like our little friend other there..." "I'M A STICK !" *Transforms into fire*

I would ask her telekinesis.

Aaaah not like that !!!!!!!!

I really think that Lirin will die in Kaladin's arms. But I really like the idea that Lirin has become a radiant. He has always been presented as a righteous man, I think he could be the type of person who attracts sprens. He could have inherit special Healing gifts. He was always so dedicated to his work. I'm sure he would have used them wisely. In his last moments, the fact that he is a radiant would make it easier for him to understand Kal and all what Kal went through... I like the idea of the baby sister more than the idea of the baby brother. A baby brother would be too much of a replacement child; he would always remind Tien to his older brother and his parents. Although a little sister is something new, and it seems better to get a new beginning...

This is my guess. Kal reaches Hearthstone just after the Everstorm, delayed by his mission in the capital. Everybody's in panic as the voidbringers have already began to tear the town apart. Roshone is locked inside his property. He fears so much for his own security that he has abandoned the people of the town, keeping his armed guards for himself. Laral has been defying his husband at the beginning of the bloodshed. She is the one who tries to organise the civilian défenses. She has gathered the majority of the people and she has given them weapons, but their efforts to resist the Voidbringers are hopeless as they are not real fighters. When Kal arrives, he tries to find his parents in the group that she has united, but they are missing. Mad with worry, he wants to go and look for them first, but Laral begs him to stay and help, and he realizes that he has to protect the people of Hearthstone against the voidbringers first or they will die. He defeats the Voidbringers who attack the villagers. Meanwhile Roshone is killed Inside his guarded property. When the people of Hearthstone are secure, Kaladin goes back home within a heartbeat, prepared for the worst. But when he enters inside his house, he finds his father fighting hopelessly against a surviving Voidbringer. Lirin is badly wounded. Mad with grief, Kal kills the Voidbringer with his shardblade before he kills his father. Then he reaches him and tries to patch his wounds, but there's nothing he can do. He takes Lirin in his arms as he is dying. The father has tears of joy in his eyes when he realises that the radiant who just "saved" him is his son, he thought that Kal was dead. Kal is totally upset. He asks why his father had to stay here unprotected...and discovers that Lirin has stayed to protect a young patient under his care that could not be moved. He cries and tells his father he has always been his hero and he's so sorry for not having been able to save Tien and for arriving to late to save him too. Lirin has enough time left to tell Kal that Tien's death was not his fault. He tells him how proud of him he is, and asks him to protect is mom...and his little sister. Kal discovers that Hesina is safe, hidden in the room with the child. She is devastated because Lirin is dead but overwhelmed with joy because she is reunited with her son. Kal falls in love at first sight with his sister who is so much like Tien...

I will grow up. I will stop to read fantasy books. I will not re-read my favourite fantasy books again and again. I will stop daydreaming. I will lead a realistic life. Instead of speaking about magic, knights, swords, dragons, and alternate universes with my friends, I will have discussions about sports and money and politics with them. I will stop listening toTwo Steps From Hell when I'm washing the dishes just because it gives me a huge sense of epicness. I will never watch StarWars, LOTR, Matrix or Pirates of the Carribean again. Especially not when I'm sick and stuck in my bed. I will not be obsessed by dragons. I will not believe that I secretely am a dragon. Or that I will adopt one. I will not hope that I will someday grow wings and fly. I will stop to believe that there is magic in this world. I will stop to believe that true friendship is a blessing and a gift. I will stop to believe that love is more powerful than hatred. I will stop to have faith in the human kind.

France - French !

Finished ! So these were my reactions while I was reading... 1)What de storm Jasnah's dead ??? She can't be ! No way ! Brandon, you can't trick me on this, Jasnah is my favourite female character ! She rocks ! She's not dead ! 2)I'm a stick . Shallan, if you want it to soulcast sticks pretend to be Jasnah, it could convince them... 3)Kal, don't be such a paranoid b****, Dalinar is not trying to abuse you. 4)Wow, Shallan certainly knows how to play her part ! 5)Pattern I want a Pattern 6)Shadolin's first date. Shallan you just killed me. 7) Kaladin and the horse . Reminds me of Shallan and the stick 8) Kal, can't you see Adolin's trying to be nice with you ? 9) Kadolin fighting 4 shardbearers... Guys, you are awesome when you fight together ! 10) Adolin stayed in jail to convince Elhokar he had to release Kaladin ? Wow, I really love this guy. 11) Kal, you little... what the storm are you doing, why do you give this shardblade to Moash. The guy just told you he wanted to kill the king and you're supposed to be a bodyguard you stupid man ! 10) Shallan saves the day (and Kal) in the chasms. Wow, this girl is a true radiant-to-be. Kal, look at her and stop complaining ! 11) Bridge four, best team ever ! 12) Kal, you were such a pain in the *** during this whole book, but you are so... storming stormblessed when you act as the one you truly are inside !! The Elhokar rescuing and the fight against Sezth were epic ! 13) Thank you Adolin for killing Sadeas, the guy was driving me mad ! 14) So Shallan killed both her parents. That's hard. 15) I knew Jasnah was NOT dead ! I want more of Jasnah ! 16) I CAN'T WAIT I HAVE TO READ THE NEXT BOOK

Jasnah. I love her character since the beginning and I'm very curious about her adventures in the cognitive realm !

Dalinar, Jasnah and Renarin are radiants. Maybe Adolin will become one (I hope he will revive his shardblade to do so). I agree with this theory. I don't think that Navani will become a KR but who knows ? I agree that the spren have high advantages in taking their bonds Inside the Kholin family given their position. It will be easier for the spren to have the KR take the lead of Alethkar and fight the Voidbringers efficiently, if they bond with the few humans who already are in charge in the Alethi society first. And the throne belongs to the Kholin...

. Thanks for the answers . I've already ordered Warbreaker, it's the next book on my list. I hope it will help.

It already seems too much !

I must admit... I read the books and I don't understand Recreance. I read the whole thread and I still don't understand Recreance. Really I feel stupid with this whole Recreance mess. Something terrible must have happened to kill all the sprens... (okay, the KR broke their oaths, but how ? okay, they might have lost purpose after the end of the desolation, and there might have been dissensions within their ranks... but still...!) I don't buy it...I don't think the KR would have intentionnally broken their oaths, and chosen to kill their sprens. I don't know. It just doesn't feel right. We can see it with Kal and Syl / Shallan and Pattern, KR and sprens evolve in such a symbiotic way, at some point decide to kill your own spren would mean suicide! You would have to be very honorable to sacrifice everything you are, everything you love, even your storming spren, for the sake of human kind, and if KR were already fighting each other, there's no way they were this noble, there's no way all of them would have agreed to do it at the same time... And if that's what they did, why on hell would they be called traitors ? It makes no sense to me ! The Herlads were the traitors, not the KR. This scene in Dalinar's vision, the KR attack the fortress and then suddenly the KR stop and and they leave their shards and they seem to act like a bunch of zombies. As if, suddenly, bang ! All the spren are dead. But the KR did not do anything special. It's like, something happened somewhere else and the spren died very suddenly but the KR we see in the vision are not directly responsible for that, they just grieve and there is no reason for them to fight anymore. We miss something here, something that happened in the cognitive realm. But again if it was the spren's decision (collective suicide or something like that), why would the Stormfather be so angry with human beings ? Okay, then we have the Stormfather and he says he is the spren of the Allmighty and we know that the Allmighty died killed by Odium (who the frack is Odium, I don't know - okay, he is pure hate/destruction, and he creates the Everstorm, but what is he ? A spren ? Like the Stormfather ? Or... some sort of God, like the Allmighty ? The God of destruction ? Or what ? I'm lost T_T). Because then : if the Allmighty was not God... then what was he... A random guy with great powers coming from another solar system ? A herald ? And when did he die ? Before the first désolations ? Before the Recreance ? During the Recreance ? And why would the storming Heralds have to suffer an eternity of pain, tortured until they break, to prevent the desolation ? And how do their sufferings stop Odium and prevent the Desolations ? How does this work ?? There's one thing I understand : and it's why the Heralds gave up their oaths (and their blades). Their fate sucked too much. Poor Taln did not have any choice. But then what is the difference between a Herald and a Knight Radiant ? Herlads were above Radiants. What are Heralds, angels who fell from the sky or were they humans once ? (Wait, do you think that the spren of the KR could have died because/when the Heralds left ?) I must say that I feel as stupid as Taravangian in a bad day... If someone was kind enough to enlighten me, I would be so happy.

Probably bad. Adolin certainly represents everything Elhokar would have loved to become but I can't see any close link between them. I remember this scene, when Adolin fights alone against for shardbearers, and is about to be killed or crippled, and Dalinar is growing mad, saying Elhokar : "It's my son, I must help him, just let me borrow your plate and I'll go", and Elhokar is just kind of : "No Uncle, that's what they really want, to have you down there it wouldn't be reasonable" and it's true ! But Elhokar is not usually this reasonable, when something is important for him, he does not act with such common sense. And that is the problem; you can feel that he doesn't give a rust about Adolin's death on a personal level. It only pisses him off because it would mean loosing a great tool.

About assassination attempts, I was speaking both of the true ones ( there were only two) and of the virtual ones (and I think that every attempt of the Assassin in White on Dalinar's life can be counted as an assassination attempt on the King from Elhokar PoV ^^). The guy just considers that everyone is a potential threat. About Elhokar being bullied, I don't see it as something physical. It's just that everyone around him is so talented. Dalinar/Gavilar are great fighters. Navani / Jasnah are very clever women. And he is just ordinary, with no special skill, probably overprotected but... it can be devastating to be treated this way. You could say that it is worse for Renarin, but Renarin has Adolin, and Adolin is not "the naturally skilled type", he's "the guy who works hard to be worthy". It's kind of different. Plus, we don't know Adolin and Renarin's mother and how she acted with her sons. Otherwise...this Adolin/Elhokar theory is interesting.

I don't speculate while reading a book, I just enjoy what I'm reading. But I'm a fantasy reader. That means several books. And you have to wait a lot between two books. I love to speculate during this time because it helps to keep the story alive. I believe that, once a writer publishes his story, it's not exclusively his anymore, as he has chosen to share it with his readers. I consider it a great success when unknown readers love the characters you have created as if they were truly alive, when they talk about their future développements and the things they would like them to do / become/ experience in future books. It means that you have touched people, that you have excited their curiosity, that you have talent ! Writers should be honored and not offensed when such things happen. I enjoy to read every kind of spéculations. I don't mind if it turns out to be wrong as long as the writing of the next book is amazing. I don't think you need litteral element or proofs to speculate about something (even if it's interesting to rely on proofs especially when the writer plays with the bigger picture the way Sanderson does). Wishes and imagination are okay, as long as it does not turn to fanfiction (well-written fanfiction is great but I prefer to read it once the whole serie is finished if I'm really frustrated about something in the plot). What I like the most about speculation is the amazing imagination of the readers who often write another story, that will only exist in their minds. It's the proof that creativity is something incredibly powerful that grows once it's shared ! (Sorry for my English again, I do my best ^^)

I think there is much more potential for Elhokar turning bad than for him turning to be a radiant. He is a weakling, frightened of shadows and unable to lead, jealous of the stronger men surrounding him and dealing with big trust issues, as he already confessed to Kaladdin; I agree with Maxal when he says he's the type who has been bullied all his life; he is totally insecure and he feels defenseless in front of the repeated assassination attempts he has to endure. Plus, he is not blind to the situation; he has already told several times to Dalinar, with some bitterness, that he may be king by name, but by name only. Let's face it. Elhokar is an easy prey for Odium; I think the hatespren could win him only by promising him true power : "You will be respected, feared and obeyed". Then Odium would control the king of Alethkar... ! I think it is a real possibility that Dalinar will eventually have to fight his own nephew, to take the throne back (for himself, or, if he was to die in combat, for Adolin. I can definitely imagine Adolin becoming king in the end; he is still young for the moment but he certainly has all the qualities Elhokar does not possess.)