bo.montier

I didn't know about kelek. I also didn't think we were counting the prologue. Coll, thanks.

Ok, I feel super dumb for having to ask this, when have all these guys seen screen time? Is there a thread somewhere with all this info joined together for the herald sitings?

Well, then.

Recently saw a theory that Taravangian would become a bondsmith...

I see, I didn't distinguish between attuning the rhythms and feeling... Makes sense. I am rereading the chapters and it struck me as odd.

Did you notice this when you were thinking about this theory: That's from Chapter 23. The freed Parshmen couldn't feel the new highstorm.

Haha, these are hard things to talk about because you need examples and examples can get confusing too. Yes, people differ from person to person on whether a given act was justified. If one person says, that was a justified killing and the next says, no, it was murder, ONE OF THEM IS WRONG. I mean, virtually all murderers say "they deserved it..." "it wasn't my fault..." "you'd've done it too..." or something like that, something to say that what they did wasn't evil. But they did it. Societies look and try to split hairs and tell the difference. The point is, either it was a justified killing or not, regardless of whether or not the person FELT justified. I mean, to take it to one of the worst people imaginable, Hitler thought he was justified and right and moral. I don't care what he thinks, the truth is he wasn't, and that doesn't change. Now, people are obviously more complex than actions. Every person has redeemable and good qualities just as every person has vile and evil qualities. Actions are, generally, either moral or immoral. Again, I'm talking about the important ones, rape, murder, theft, etc. Sanderson says he doesn't think about the shards as either good or evil. I don't know if he includes the shard-holder in that or just the intent. Is Rayse good or evil vs is Odium itself good or evil? I tend to think of hatred/wrath as a good thing if it is turned towards evil, and a bad thing if it is turned elsewhere. 100% to that. I still think it exists.

Ha, as you may have picked up from other topics, I'm on the other side of these things. Morality is pretty black and white for MOST of the important things. If you're talking about modesty standards, who cares, but if you're talking about whether or not killing that person was murder, well, there's a right and a wrong answer. It may not be easy to find that answer, but it's there.

I drink a LOT of coffee & smoke pipes when I'm binging on a book, so it slows me down(Look, you wouldn't think bathroom breaks take that much time, but I mean A LOT of coffee). Honestly I think 18 is more realistic, but I'm not 100% sure I'm remembering the last one correctly or not. I know it was less than 24 hours, but not sure how much less.

I'm taking the 14 & 15th off. Plan on reading it straight through and then sleeping. I originally had only planned on the 14th, but hen remembered the need for sleep before returning to work. I read WoR in about 23 hrs.

My feeling is that dustbringers are all going to be a little off-putting, personality wise.

I laughed out loud at this. But for seriously, this is an unnecessarily complex theory, so it's probably correct (super tongue in cheek here)

Syl can do it, but it doesn't look like Pattern can. I don't think we know enough here, personally.

Thanks for those WoBs, I was unaware of them (new to the forum and all this research :-)) My take, currently, on Syl, is that facts are sometimes incorrect, but her intuitions are generally reliable. She is an Honorspren, after all, I would expect her to know what a voidspren feels like. I would actually expect ALL the honor/cultivation spren to be able to feel the wrongness in voidspren, but that may not be the case, in which case my implicit trust for Syl in this area may be misplaced.

IT seems more to me like Syl is saying that listeners cannot form nahel bonds, not that there is no spren bond. Trusting Syl's intuition about the spren is entirely different from thinking she is an absolute source of knowledge. She seems to see to the core of things and understand the essence, even if the details are off.

Interesting, I wonder if it's just a mistake in the Tor text. How many times is it referred to as He, just the one, or more? If it's not a mistake in the text we're left with: There are 2 spren, or Syl was mistaken. Both have lots of possibilities. My inclination is still to trust Syl. The fact that the yellow spren appears to Kaladin fully intelligent means, to me, she isn't a KR spren coming into the physical realm, since that seems to remove most of the spren's cognitive abilities. I think she's been in the physical realm or has a protection of some sort...getting into how investiture works and whatnot is not my area of expertise, but I think her intelligence is indicative of her source.

I don't think Syl is omniscient, I just trust her judgement. She feels things intuitively, it seems to me, and that's significant. I don't think having the listeners being led by voidspren makes them an evil race. Right now they are just trying to survive, and then this thing shows up saying "I'll help you escape human lands and thrive and good things will happen..." Well, why wouldn't they follow that thing? They don't really know what else to do right now, and they know they're going to meet other listeners. That doesn't make them evil, just naive. Now, I think what is going to happen is, as a result of human/listener conflict, most of the freed parshmen are going to CHOOSE to side with odium and the voidspren in order to fight the humans. They will only realize their mistake when, like Eshonai, they realize their free will is gone. I don't see how this is significantly different from your 4 steps, with the exception that I think the spren with the parshmen are voidspren. You thinking there is more going on is a bit confusing, because the 4 steps are obvious. You just left one out between 3 & 4 - Trick listeners into becoming voidbringers. These spren are leading the parshmen so they form a large group, rather than isolated small groups which are easily attacked. Now, my usual disclaimer. I've been fooled before, I've thought things were going in a different direction before. I don't know for sure where we're going. I just see a lot of theories around that unnecessarily complicate things, and the spren with the parshmen not being voidspren seems to be one of those unnecessary complications. We'll find out soon, I hope.

Cool, just wanted to make sure I understood. And yeah, that quote does lend itself to such an understanding. Thanks!

Right, you can't prove a negative. That's not my question; my question is what evidence is there FOR her not being dead? I'm not, personally, going to subscribe to a theory of "well maybe so and so isn't dead because...You never know..." without some reason behind it. To be clear, I would have said the same thing through the whole of WoR until Jasnah showed back up. I was shocked, but thought Brandon had pulled a George RR Martin on us. I'm not saying these theories are wrong; I'm genuinely curious what the reasoning is, and if there is any evidence to back it up.

I disagree with you on almost every point :-) Syl didn't trust Pattern, but she said he wasn't evil. Not so with the voidspren. The yellow spren isn't bonding the parshmen because it A can only bond one, and B because the new form would probably scare the dickens out of the other Parshmen. The Listeners' own history points to them being possessed or overcome by "forms" in the past, which is what makes most people believe they ARE, in large part, the voidbringers. You can't really call someone possessed evil, since it's not them doing it, so I agree that the voidbringer's weren't evil, but what possessed them was. If there's misdirection I think it's more along the lines of Kaladin being misled. "Oh, this voidspren isn't that bad, let me see what all happens down this road...(down the road)...Oh god, the horror, I never should have trusted that bastard yellow spren"

I don't get where there is any evidence of Evi not being dead. Where does this theory come from; is it just because of Dalinar not being able to remember, or is there something more that I'm just missing?

Syl knew enough of the Cryptics to know they were distasteful, but not evil. I trust her, in this, to know the voidspren from the good.

There are some theories out there (I believe) that say the KR will take on the eye color of the gem-stone with which their order is associated. I don't know enough about this to argue it yay or nay, but that's my understanding.

Hahaha, Being a relative newbie here, some of these theories are so out there(to me)...I don't know how people put them together. Doesn't mean they're wrong, but I have no idea how people are getting from point A to point B so many times.

To the first part: It's not simple ignorance we're talking about though, it's something more, but your point is well taken. To the last part, I genuinely wonder if the parshmen actually ARE trying to negotiate, or if that was a lie told to Dalinar to delay. That is going to be important moving forward. The greatest tragedy might be that peace is possible, but Odium takes over the parshmen to an extent that he destroys that peace, despite good-will on both sides.