Neotharin

Sorry for the double post; I'm still getting used to the formatting, I'm not sure how to quote two people in the same post. 

I think it has more to do with a "trump card" theory of magic systems.
Lerasium, being of Preservation, is the trump in it's magic system, allowing consumers to use all metals.

I see it as this since Atium is the opposite of Preservation (As Preservation and Ruin posses a dichotomy that is unlike any other multi-shard world in the Cosmere) what ever Preservations adds via Spiritual DNA manipulation, Ruin can undo that in the same way. 

In the case of non-god metal hemalurgy, the Hemalurgy and net positivity at work in a spike are like a balanced scale, yet it is tipped in the direction of a net positive sum because of the stolen allomantic ability.

My theory has the same scale metaphor, yet it is tipped completely to one side or the other when pure god metals are at play.

 

 

Atium is a "trump card" in Hemalurgy, being of Ruin, allowing users to steal any power.

Atium spends its Investiture on an active effect in Allomancy, acting as an Ace in this analogy.

The problem I see with this is that the well of Ascension was a prison for Ati. Trapping his Cognitive and Spiritual aspect separate from his physical. This means that an Atium bead would not be able to impose any will on the effects it would grant except for an innate effect. And yes, Atium is a Hemalurgc wild card, except that it still steals only a portion of the power, albeit more efficiently. 

Brandon says this about Atium Hemalurgy, "It works far better than other spikes as well". He doesn't say that it works with 100% efficiency.

I'd speculate that Lerasium does something similar in Hemalurgy, being fairly powerful. I'd speculate that lerasium alone, whatever it steals, is remarkable in that it does not lose power, and maybe even augments it in the process.   

Very interesting idea.  Yet again, it goes back to the net positive and net negative. If Atium is net negative, I think it's reasonable to postulate that Lerasium Hemalurgy would be net positive granting stronger and stronger allomancy the more people it sticks.

 

 

Well, if you think of it in terms of Shards, Ruin (being entropic decay and change) would make sense. It can predict how everything is changing, because it can take into account every atom. 

I would have to politely disagree. Entropic decay is a net neutral sum. Entropy is the amount of energy not available to do work. Atoms, or bond between atoms seek the most stable form. Both Ruin and Preservation would be capable of foresight via atoms if it were possible, because chemistry contains negative sums, positive sums, and neutral sums. 

[Atium] allows one to see the future, but only the immediate future in a way that is only really useful for combat, likely the same way Ruin can see the future. 

This is a good point, as both Ruin and Preservation are capable of future sight.

It's a metal that allows the user to destroy more effectively, and in turn encourages them to destroy. 

Allomancy is also capable of destruction. But to say it less effective than Atium, is hard to say. Atium is only exuberantly deadly in the hands of a mistborn, which is also deadly without Atium.

Shards have a million uses, and I honestly don't find it surprising that Preservation's power can be used, intentionally, to form Lerasium, while Ruin's power can, naturally and without direction, form a destruction-oriented metal.

You are hinting at one of the underlying differences between the god metals and the other 16. I think calling them God Metals is a misnomer. They are not actually metals, in the sense that copper and steel are. Atium and Lerasium are a piece of shardic power, just with a metallic facade. 

I am applying the same rules of Lerasium, in that it grants power, to Atium. Thus, Preservation adds to your Spiritual DNA and Ruin subtracts from your Spiritual DNA. With zero Spirituality, what are you? 

I'm not overly sure if a combo of Atium and Lerasium would nearly grant Feruchemy from being burned. I suspect one [would] have to do something a little different to work it like that...

Granted. As this is just a theory; Brandon might have another way to become a Feruchemist.

Awesome, thank you both, Swimmingly and Observer.

Here is the link to my thread, http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7213-i-think-that-there-is-something-incongruent-with-atium-mistborn-trilogy-spoilers/.

I would like to take the time to again warn that this post CONTAINS SPOILERS. It also contains some of my own theories. I will outline why I think there is something wrong with how Atium works in Allomancy and give suggestions on how I think it should work.

If you find any mistakes in my logic or you have a reference that discredits one of my assertion please comment with it. This theory is something I want to be proven wrong on. Brandon's Allomancy/Hemalurgy/Feruchemy magic system is something I absolutely love, yet I cannot reconcile the issues I've found.

Basis/Lore

I feel that the way Atium works is incongruent with the logic of how Lerasium would indicate it would work.

In the beginning it was said that humans did not exist on Scadrial, Ruin and Preservation had to work together in order to create them. Preservation had to promise Ruin that she would let him destroy the world (as is his nature) in the future if he would work with her this time. It was also said that Feruchemy came ages before the other metallurgic arts. I think that Ruin and Preversation created Feruchemy as a consequence of their collaboration.

Allomancy (Net positive): Preservation’s power arrived during the first ascension, through Rasheck sharing the Lerasium beads with his most loyal companions. Allomancy generates greater force/energy than what is consumed from the metal.

Hemalugry (Net negative): Ruin’s power and would be innate in the world. Some of the power is lost when using hemalurgy, the one with the spike always has a weaker version of the ability than it's original owner had.

Ferucehmy (Net neutral, but not net zero): Exists through the merging of the two powers. Weak now, strong later.

This is where I start to see the incongruent behaviour.

Lerasium is a god metal, and everyone is capable of consuming it; Skaa or noble alike, and grants full-fledged Mistborn-dom. Brandon said that being a god metal, Lerasium has special properties in how it rewrites your "spiritual DNA".

I feel that Atium should be the same way; everyone should be able to consume it as it is also a god metal. Atium and Lerasium are the physical manifestations of shardic power, and like actual shards they should both also be able to be picked up by everyone. This is probably the reason behind why Lerasium can be consumed by everyone.

Atium’s Allomantic Effect

Firstly, Preservation was attributed greater foresight. This is how Preservation was able to win out in the end and not have to give in to Ruin. Thus, why is it that Atium gives foresight as an allomatic effect?

Secondly, if Lerasium’s allomatic effect grants the power of net positivity, then Atium’s allomatic effect should grant net negativity.

I think that Atium being net negative, it would possibly have these effects...

1) if you are a Mistborn it would turn you into a normal human being.

2) if you are already a normal human, it kills you as ruins nature is destruction.

3) If you are a Misting it would turn you into something akin to a spren with a nature that would be dependent on the type of Misting you were.

4) If you were a Ferring, it would only partial destroy you, leaving only a fragment of your physical/spiritual/cognitive aspects behind as a shell of your former self, which depends on the type of Misting you were.

5) It’s hard to say what you would be if you were a Feruchemist and burned Atium. You could be destroyed, as your net negativity would be greater than your net positivity, but it could vary. An interesting idea would be that you cease to exist but the three aspects of you (your physical/spiritual/cognitive aspects) would be fractured into separate beings, locked as metaphysical building blocks across the three realms.

Atium-Lerasium Alloy

Thus, the alloy of Atium and Lerasium would grant Feruchemy and not the ability to burn Atium as a Misting; as in the the creation of humans the merging of the powers created net neutrality.

I was a long-time lurker, and I have some questions about Atium. I thought might as well sign up and get some clarification.