elsecaller7

We know from Wind and Truth that Taln attempted to kill Cultivation, presumably using a weapon given to him by Kalak. We also know that he withstood torture on Braize for 4,500 years without ever breaking. This theory proposes that the weapon Taln used to attempt to kill Cultivation was a Dawnshard, which then imprinted on his soul, preventing him from breaking while on Braize. Among the possibilities for the weapon that Taln could have used to try to kill Cultivation, the Dawnshards rank pretty high. Other than Nightblood, which didn't exist yet, the Dawnshards are the only weapons that we know of that have been used to kill a God. Some kind of anti-Investiture weapon might work as well, but I think we can be reasonable certain that those wouldn't have been around at that time either. There really isn't a candidate that we know of for a weapon that could have been used to harm a God at that time other than a Dawnshard. Additionally, we know that Taln's soul is warped from his attempt to kill Cultivation. While that warping need not necessarily have been caused by the weapon (for instance, it could have been caused by Cultivation's response), we know that holding a Dawnshard warps the soul. We've seen that warping manifest in Sigzil's and Hoid's Torments, preventing them from directly harming others. I believe that Taln held a Dawnshard whose Torment made it so that he could not give in to his torture on Braize. There are several possibilities for a Dawnshard Command that would cause this torment. For instance, a Dawnshard with a Command similar to Honor's Intent might prevent him from breaking, as Taln swore an oath to protect Roshar at the founding of the Oathpact, and breaking might be seen as a violation of that oath. Or the Command may be related to protection itself, or to resolve. Either way, it seems plausible that of the two Dawnshards with unkown Commands, one might cause a torment that would have resulted in Taln being unable to break. This theory seems to me to best explain what we know about Taln. A Dawnshard fits with the attempt to kill Cultivation and his having a warped soul. In addition, the fact that Taln never broke despite 4,500 years of torture seems unrealistic to me as the result of human willpower alone. I also like this theory because it gives the Heralds' betrayal of Taln a lot more bite. While the Heralds made their choice to transfer most of the Oathpact to Taln without consulting him, the plan essentially requires Taln's consent as well, assuming he can choose whether or not to break. It's not much of a betrayal if Taln can make the effects of the betrayal moot by choosing to break. But if he has no choice, if the other Heralds abandoned him to be tortured on Braize alone, knowing that he could never give in to stop it...that would be quite the betrayal indeed. So, that's my theory. I'll note one potential counterargument, which is that Taln was given his weapon by Kalak, yet Kalak clearly does not suffer from a Torment that prevents him from breaking. I think there are two ways to explain this, the first being that Kalak led Taln to the Dawnshard without holding it himself, and the second that Kalak didn't hold the Dawnshard for long enough to be affected by the Torment. (I'm not sure how long one has to hold the Dawnshard to suffer a Torment.) I think this theory nicely explains what we know about Taln, and it puts a darker spin on his abandonment by the Heralds. Let me know what you all think!

I originally realized that he was a worldhopper when he referred to highstorms as "Invested," with a capital "I". After that, I started wondering which planet he might be from, and the color metaphors stood out a lot to me. After I had made that connection, the nightblood reference became obvious. His grumpy personality and excellent swordsmanship also solidified the connection. When I came to the 17th shard to confirm my theory, I also saw that some people noticed the fact that he has life recognition, which he uses to sense Kaladin approaching his room.

This quote includes several qualifications Taravangian uses to evaluate whether a patient will be moved into the death ward. Let's go through them all: 1. If the patient is terminally ill. Shallan does not meet this qualification, although that would not be apparent to those who observed the accident, having been deceived by the amount of blood that was in the room. 2. If the patient will be forgotten. Shallan mostly meets this qualification. Her house is mostly unknown, and though she is Jasnah's ward, she hasn't been for very long, and thus does not have much name recognition. 3. If the patient is lowly. This one's kind of tricky. Shallan is rather lowly...for a lighteyes. Being a lowly lighties is fairly highborn compared to the rest of Vorin Roshar, but then again, there are lighteyes who have made it to the ward (the birth status of the patient is mentioned in the epigraphs); presumably they are members of unknown houses like Shallan's. 4. If the patient will be missed. I'm kind of translating this one to mean, "If there will be any repercussions from the patient's death," so that it somewhat addresses whether the death was suspicious enough to warrant suspicion. In this case, I believe it was not. There would be no reason for the story of Shallan dying of her wounds not to be readily accepted. No one's banging down Taravangian's door for this death. There's also the matter of how suspicions T is acting in his conversation with Shallan. Either way, I think it's really interesting to think about, even if there wasn't any real danger to Shallan.

That argument is predicated on the fact that King T could not have began letting Shallan's blood without moving her from one ward to another. Though the patients who are about to die are all interned in one ward, I would imagine that King T could start the process in the main ward, and then, once Shallan began exhibiting obvious signs of weakness, move here to the terminal ward. Additionally, I don't see why Jasnah would have thought to object to King Taravangian's decision that Shallan needed to be kept in another ward. She trusts him completely, and switching a patient from one ward to another is hardly suspicious behavior. I'll conclude by pointing out that there was a lot more blood in the room where Shallan was discovered than actually exited Shallan's body, on account of the secret soulcasting, so the injury appeared a lot worse than it actually was. It doesn't seem to me that there were any obstacles in Taravangian's path to murdering Shallan.

The issue comes down to whether or not Shallan's death could be sufficiently explained by her injury. So long as she appears fatally weak by those who observed her, her death would be noticed, certainly, but not questioned. What I'm more interested in though, is did you notice it? Even if Shallan would have been fine, I found this really interesting to think about. I was wondering how many other people shared the experience I had in reading it the first time, totally not noticing it, and then being blown away when I finally realized it.

Hey all, first post here, though I've been lurking around for a long time. i decided to jump in on account of something interesting I noticed when rereading The Way of Kings. In part three of the book, Shallan faces a danger that I know I definitely missed the first time I read through the book, and I think a lot of others may have missed as well. After accidentally soulcasting a goblet to blood, Shallan cuts herself with a shard of glass to cover up what she's done. This leads to her internment in the hospital, shortly before she is confronted by Jasnan and Kabsal and- Wait. Hold on. What happened after she cut herself with the glass? She was interned in the hospital. She was interned in King Taravangian's hospital. Yup. If Kabsal hadn't poisoned her, she would have had her blood drained and died. Here's a conversation She and King T have right before the encounter with Kabsal and Jasnah: Now it's possible that Shallan would have escaped her stay unscathed. Presumably, not every single patient that enters Kharbranth's hospital dies there. But I find Taravangian's insistence that Shallan remain in the ward suspicious, and when he says, "I can see how that might help you," in response to whether or not Shallan can have visitors, it feels to me that what he means is, "Having visitors will allow people to notice how weak you are (and you'll be quite weak, since we'll be draining your blood), so that might help your death seem less suspicious." King T also seems really hesitant throughout the whole conversation, as though he's really reluctant to keep her there, because he doesn't want to kill her, but has no choice. His comment at the end makes it seem both as though he knows that he is talking to a person who is going to die, and that he has a need to assure himself that he is doing the right thing in that moment. Her limited connections to society also make her a likely candidate for selection by Taravangian. So, what do you guys think? Did you notice this the first time you read WoK? And do you think she really would have been killed had Kabsal not poisoned her, or was her injury not serious enough for King Taravangian to murder her?