thejopen27

I'm strongly in favor of the Gavilar as Odium's champion as a Fused/Cognitive Shadow. It would fit in SO well to Dalinar's arc and it would make all five Gavilar prologues have so much more relavance to the story. Everything in the first four books stems from this man, this cruel, manipulative, arrogant, vain, prideful man, the things he began with his plotting to unite humanity against an enemy he would create, and the tragic results of his assassination. 

Gavilar's life and death have been the inciting incident of everything that has happened in Stormlight up to this point. He would make the most sense as the champion of Odium, to duel Dalinar at the end of the first half of Stormlight.

On 2/2/2021 at 10:09 PM, teknopathetic said:

Well I don’t know this part. I’m not sure if a child of a herald would have some special powers similar to how Vivenna can shape change. If you recall, Vivenna and Siri are descendants of a Returned. Vivenna also has a higher natural ability to awaken due to her heritage (confirmed by Vasher). Something there is different  

Maybe the divine breath is doing something special to cognitive shadow babies as an “Endowment” for one’s heirs is on brand. But the only children of cognitive shadows we know of are more invested then a regular person. 

So if Shallan is the child of a cognitive shadow, then there is the possibility that she looks different to someone as invested as Hoid. Maybe her aura is different? Maybe she bonds easier. Shallan might have something. It might even be a curse like a propensity to mental illness as well. Who knows.  

The point is Hoid seems flabbergasted to see Shallan at Middlefest. We assumed it was because she was bonded to Pattern. But it turns out Shallan only had a deadeye. So maybe Hoid saw a hint of cognitive shadow descendant power?  
 

And what is this dark presence Hoid says Shallan and her family are fighting? What did he see? Is it an unmade. Is it a cognitive shadow curse? Both? Who knows. 

I always took Hoid's surprise to see "Shallan" at Middlefest is Hoid's ability to know where he is needed tripping off. He's limited ability with fortune to "Always be where (he) is needed" has led him to take a message from a minor Skybreaker acolyte to his father in the middle of nowhere Jah Kaved to a silly little small town festival and he can't figure out why he's supposed to be there and then this timid, thirteen year old noble girl walks up and suddenly his fortune sense trips off and that's why he says what he says. He's glad he's finally figured out why this is the place he needs to be and surprised the reason he needs to be there is to talk to a timid 13 year old girl. He uses Allomancy and Breath to see her aura and bronze her to find out she has some hidden Lightweaver abilities and talks to her about the nature of lies. 

That was my interpretation of that scene. Otherwise great theory, I loved seeing it all written out like this.

2 hours ago, BrightLordSwageas said:

Ah right, my mistake , so you were arguing that average humans would be better off in heading military affairs better than a council of veteran Radiants or a Bondsmith?

No, I was arguing the Radiants led themselves through a council of representatives of each order. One member from each order with a Bondsmith presiding, but not ruling over them. 

So the Horneaters (Unkalaki), and the  Herdazians descend from humans and singers and have singer ancestry. In Horneaters this gives them extra back-teeth, red hair, larger size, and are closer to the cognitive realm. For Herdazians it just seems to give them rock-like carapace fingernails.

The Natan people and the people of Babatharnam descend from humans and Siah Aimians and have Siah ancestors. The Babatharnam manifest this with blue-ish veins visible beneath the skin and the Natans have faintly blue skin. They may also have other Aimian characteristics but this is all we know about so far.

What's with Thaylen Eyebrows? Where did this come from? Does anyone have any idea?

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

Yes, in Ch. 38 of OB the Stormfather says Honor ranted to the KR about how the Dawnshards were used to cause the cataclysm on Ashyn. 

I do agree with idea that the Dawnshards are spren. In Stormlight Archive “Shard” is used for plate and blade which we know are spren that crossed over to the physical realm and took the shape of objects. 

Almost every magic on Roshar involves a spren: Singer forms, KR surges, Fabrials, even the Old Magic is (usually) a spren magically altering someone. 

The Fused and the Heralds / whoever holds an Honorblade got their power directly from Odium or Honor. Those are the only exceptions I can think of.

The non-canon magic system Brandon was developing for Ashyn didn’t involve spren. So how did Spren get to Ashyn?

 I ‘unno! 

The magic from the not finished Silence Divine is what replaced the original magic of Ashyn. The Ashynites had different magic before the migration.

I always got the sense it developed organically. Bridge 4 had a couple bad runs in a row, it got the reputation for being unlucky, so they started sending the rejects and weak slaves there which led Bridge 4 to be slower and less efficient which caused even worse things to happen. It's stated in WoK that the Parshendi focus fire on the bridges that look like they're about to fall so a sloppy bridge is more likely to be targeted. Over time the issues compound and feed into each other.

I had always assumed the Dawnshards were from Ashyn, not Roshar 

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Dude if you want romance read romance, I want epic fantasy, so I read epic fantasy.

It's epic because it's big and contains lot of things. There are 460,000 words in Rhythym of War, that's plenty to spread around.

For the record, I generally dislike shipping and especially shipping culture, but I like fantasy books (which is an inherently romantic genre) that contain romantic plot lines.

Kissing is good and enhances the story, getting defensive about who should or shouldn't kiss is bad and takes away from the story.

plot "...medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for."

28 minutes ago, revelryintheart said:

Eh. If I wanted to read kissing, I would read my mom's period romance dramas. I read Stormlight because I like epic fantasy. It's not a romance-if it was, I probably wouldn't read it.

(Sorry if this comes across as rude. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm just presenting mine)

Ok, Fred Savage from the Princess Bride

Well, I'm going to come forward with the stance that there should be more kissing in books generally. Everyone who wants romance should get to have it. Romance is good and fun to read.

12 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

It’s not clear. She was made Queen when they thought Gavinor was dead, Kaladin hadn’t found the bridge 4 survivors yet and the survivors did not mention having Gavinor over spanreed because they were afraid it would make them targets. 

Now that they know he’s alive I assume she will be Queen regent. I don’t think it will be an issue. Jasnah may enjoy being able to boss more people around, but I dont think she really wants to be Queen forever. She likes traveling the world doing research plus she is a radiant and there will be some world threatening crisis that will require her direct attention. 

I assume they will sort this out in a sentence in the first act of RoW

14 hours ago, ConfusedCow said:

He will always be a threat to Jasnah's rule. Jasnah did consider killing her Cousin and Sister in law but she wouldnt. Right?

I think the understanding is that she is essentially queen regent and Gavinor is the heir. The heir is always a threat to the ruler, yet the ruler always needs the heir.

17 minutes ago, RadiantDramaQueen said:

Spoilers for Warbreaker

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Siri marries the God King, Susebron. Yes, there is less of an age gap because the God King gets replaced every so often, but he is still around 50, while Siri is 17.

 

Fair, but several times in the book, Brandon makes the point that the Godking is stunted and childlike as he has been treated like a child his entire life. Vasher has been an adult for his entire 600 year life including being married for hundreds of years.

17 hours ago, Hentient said:

The strongest ship I have in stormlight is Kaladin x Happiness. 

Need I even explain? 

I feel like Syl would get jealous if Kaladin bonded a joy spren ( ;

4 hours ago, RadiantDramaQueen said:

I don't know why, but I feel like in Warbreaker, there were some romantic possibilities between Vasher and VIvenna, and I would personally love to see that happen.

My only resistence to this is that Vasher is 600 years old (or whatever) and Vivenna is like 20. Now, yes, Vivenna is older but she also is clearly quite angry with whatever Vasher did.

Vivenna and Kaladin actually both have a lot in common. They both were serious children with a strong belief in the roles they were expected to fill in society, both ran away from their duty to attempt to save their younger sibling from harm, both failed (for very different reasons), both had their expectations of society brutally crushed, both developed a rational but debilitating hatred that they had to learn to get over to find their place, both rejected their magical powers at first, and both were then forced to accept their powers and find a new course in life. Both are great leaders who try to protect people and can quickly inspire loyalty in followers and lead by example.

As for Jasnah who's been mentioned several times, she doesn't seem to have close friendships with anyone from either sex (except from her two penpals that she rarely, if ever, speaks to in person), she has mentioned no past close friends or "friends", and the only person we know of who was ever close to her outside her family was the one person who almost convinced her to join the Devotary of Sincerity and gave her the Book of Endless Pages. I'm really curious to learn who that was and what happened to them.

6 hours ago, Karger said:

Do we?  What is your example?

The death of Devotion caused the great fissure to open up in Sel didn't it?

On 7/2/2020 at 3:21 PM, Crusadeus said:

If Brandon's original idea was that the Shattered Plains was the exact location that Adonalsium was shattered, it might stand to reason that the story remains the same, just on a different planet. I would say it is likely that whether in the Spiritual, Cognitive, or Physical realm, Honor was shattered at the location of the Shattered Plains.

I believe the shattered plains on Yolen weren't truly shattered, they were caused by erosion I thought and just had a shattered appearance. 

11 hours ago, Hentient said:

Yes! I’m hoping Gavinor, Oroden, and Shallan/Adolins kid (if that ends up working out) will be important or at least be friends. If not main characters then at least “side” characters, like Teft. Mostly I want to see the current main characters kids have a part in the story because that’s rare. 
 

God I hope they don't have a kid any time soon. Shallan is not in a good emotional place to have a kid. 

6 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

But I am too attached to Taln/Ash and aromantic!Jasnah to ship them together.

That single Ash Taln scene contained so much emotion and shared history. Reading it the first time it comes across as there being a very strong connection between them and I just assumed they were already romantically linked.

Send them to nanny large families of Austrian children?

1 hour ago, Isilel said:

So, in the prelude where Kalak and Jezrien actually interact, he calls Jez by his name. "My lord's own blade" from WoR prologue refers to Honor, as in "honorblade" = "my lord's own blade", IMHO. Judging by Shalash swearing by Adonalsium, the Heralds didn't necessarily see Honor as a god, and even if they did "lord" would be an appropriate appelation to use, as it is iRL. Etc.

All the fundamental decisions that the Heralds made were Ishar's ideas. He came up with them and convinced the others to follow through. This is leadership. We haven't heard anything comparable about Jezrien.

 

He calls Jezrien by name when talking to him directly (it's also stated Jezrien refuses to wear a crown so he likely refuses to let his friends give him a title), but when referring to Jezrien's honorblade, he calls Jezrien my lord. He doesn't say one of my lord's blades he says my lord's own blade, implying one lord, one blade. All the heralds, including Kalak on his own don't want to go back and decide not to, but Ishar, the expert in magical theory tells them he thinks the oathpact will still hold with one member. It never says it was Ishar's idea or that he proposed it, just that Ishar was the one who gave the technical clearance to the idea. Kalak also thinks during the prelude that Jezrien "always knows what to do" implying the others turn to him for leadership.

Ishar helped form the Oathpact as he was previously a bondsmith, but there is no evidence it was his idea. The best evidence that Jezrien is viewed by the others as the leader is that he is the one who waits for Kalak and the one who speaks to the humans. He takes the duties upon himself, the shameful difficult duties while the others slink away. Ishar forges the Nahel bonds into the Knights Radiant, but since he is the only one capable of doing this and he is the arcane expert it doesn't confer any special rank upon him.

Ishar is now going around giving terrible advice to Nale who appears to be working alone with Ishar's advice, but no other Heralds are working with him that we know since Kalak doesn't appear to have joined Nale's quest.

I agree with you that Kaladin is likely hiding from his responsibilities by only being a simple surgeon. 

18 hours ago, Danex said:

I love Shallan x Adolin myself, but if Shallan x Kaladin somehow happens I wouldn’t be sad. I do feel like Kal’s arc is setting him up for a new romance thing. Like if Tarah comes back. Or maybe Azure. Vivenna’s ( how do you spell her naaaame *anguish*) not had any romance that we’ve seen right? I haven’t read warbreaker in forever. Also someone mentioned Katara x Zuko earlier and....... I have opinions

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Katara and Zuko totally should have happened, but also Zuko should’ve died when he got hit by azulas lighting in the final fight. They kiss as Zuko dies, everyone cries, zukos redemption arc gets that much better, the final episode has a little more weight because someone dies, and then Katara still ends up with aang. 

 

Zutara forever...

Of the past Kaladin love interests I like the matured, post-singer occupation, post Roshone death Laral better. Childhood friends who were separated by caste but now reversed. But overall I prefer Vivenna, they actually have a lot in common and could relate to each other.

*I don't know if Roshone has died, I'm just speculating, but he is quite old

1 hour ago, Isilel said:

Indeed. I agree with the idea that he was likely using a Dawnshard before he became a Herald and that it was somehow used - and somehow used up, given that Honor in Dalinar's final vision believed that all the Dawnshards were gone, to establish the Oathpact. This confirms what I have been suspecting for some time - that Ishar, rather than Jezrien, was the most important Herald and their de-facto leader. He certainly seems to have made all the crucial decisions so far. Vorinism is just too focussed on Jezrien's mortal background as king.

Kalak refers to Jezrien as "My Lord," Jezrien was the one elected to both wait for Kalak to tell him of their plans to abandon the oathpact, and it was Jezrien who went to the humans to tell them they won the war in the end. Jezrien was known to the fused as "the greatest human to ever live" and was respected and feared by them. Just because Ishar likely had magical power before and more magical power after doesn't make him the leader. Power doesn't make you worthy of leadership nor does it make you any better at it. If I had to guess I would assume Jezrien was king and Ishar was something like his court wizard and advisor, something like a Merlin. Was Merlin more powerful than Arthur? Yes, but Merlin was not king and Arthur was the leader. Maybe some did consider Ishar the leader, but Jezrien is the one shown exhibiting leadership. Post Jezrien's madness, Nale and maybe others go to Ishar for advice, but that doesn't mean it was always that way.

44 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I don't think that's the case, mostly based on the Lirin chapter. I know we don't get much Kaladin from that, but he doesn't seem to be against fighting them even though that's not the reason he went.

I also do expect Lirin to die and that is what pushes Kaladin to become a surgeon.

After thinking about it that’s my thought as well and I suspect thinking about this and talking to Hesina about his fathers thoughts will lead to him finally being able to accept he can’t save everyone and swear his fourth oath. 

What on earth would Pattern's viewpoint be like? How odd do you think he sees the world?

16 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

I think less scorched earth,  more infiltration and conversion.  See Venli and Rlain, use Renarin and his moving blindspot. Some Listeners will come to the Honor side because they won't want to be a host to the Fused.  Some will choose Honor for the promise of power, or the possibility of becoming Nesua Kadal, something denied them previously.  Odium's forces aren't as monolithic as they seem from the outside and Dalinar has a dream pipeline to their biggest propaganda agent. There are ways to win that don't turn Roshar into another Ashyn. 

The thousand Listeners that escaped are Roshars best hope. A way to bind the humans and Singers together against Odium, the true enemy