thejopen27

The theory I've heard about the "3rd Hion" line is that the Iriali come from Komashi originally and that when Virtuosity splintered herself, she left two pieces there and took the third part and imbued her investiture in a ground of people. "The One" became many. That explains the yellow-gold skin and eyes of the Iriali and maybe helps explain why they travel. 

My longtime theory is that the Siah Aimians are just 5th Ideal Honorspren persisting on beyond their radiants in the physical realm...

You guys… they’re producing musical notes, it’s literally just harmony 

also, is the problem with Sazed him continuing to view them as two powers? He doesn’t consider himself Zen, but a harmony between Ruin and Preservation? If Honor and Odium combine, they become War, not a balance between Honor and Odium. Sazed and everyone else still views him as one person holding two powers instead of someone holding one, new power. 

On 12/6/2022 at 8:15 AM, Child of Hodor said:

I think the Shards (The Power) inherently want to do stuff they don't like to sit around. Sazed is a relatively new Vessel so the Power hasn't had as much time to adapt him to their purposes. He has been able to wrestle with them and reconcile them in his mind, but that won't last much longer.

I think Ruin is a heavily "CHANGE" shard while Preservation is the exact opposite (I don't know what the category would be). The issue is the one person with two shards has two shards that are exact opposites.

I think the final conflict in the Cosmere will be three main factions

A. The forces of the Shard of War (Odium plus Honor) from Roshar

B. The forces of the Shard of Discord from Scadrial

C. The heroes in some third faction

Plus whatever Hoid is doing

Fun to see you all do this. As someone who likes both, I'm glad you're not perpetuating the weird one sided rivalry/animosity some Brandon Sanderson fans have any time anyone mentions anything to do with George RR Martin.

I think Book 4 is "Liar of Partinel". I think he finally decided to write Hoid's backstory. Everything he said about book 4 could apply to Hoid. 

"Dragonsteel" is the story of the shattering, but "Liar of Partinel" is Hoid's story

You guys shouldn't think of Atium as alloyed with every other metal, you should think of it as Atium modifying other metals when burned together in Allomancy. Just like how Atium in Hemalurgy can steal anything, in Allomancy it modifies every ability. Atium turns gold and electrum from internal to external metals, or maybe we say it applies the effect of the metal from yourself to other people. Maybe it does the same to every other metal. 

Maybe combining Atium and Brass allows you to sooth your own emotions.

Maybe combining Atium and Tin allows you to change another person's senses or maybe it does something like combining atium and pewter to make another extremely weak

The reason Leras combined Atium and Electrum was not to hide the effect of Atium, it was to give Elend the ability to see the future of everything at that one moment, or maybe it was specifically to give the force the end there the capacity to resist long enough so that some people could survive and to give them a reason to burn off all the Atium.

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On 10/12/2021 at 10:40 AM, LuckyJim said:

Lift is kind of a weird case. She is darkeyed, but she also doesn't live within the Vorin caste system and almost immediately after she's introduced she starts living a life of luxury since she's friends with the newly elevated Prime of Azir. Not to mention, as a Shardbearer she's a de facto lighteyes now.

That being said, her story does seem to deal with how the lower class is treated due to her own background as a street urchin and her duties as an Edgedancer. It's very possible that her story will deal with these issues in more depth once we get to her book.

I imagine most of her eventual flashback book will be about her growing up as a street urchin in Iri though. 

11 hours ago, EddyJ said:

I think it's awesome that the main characters in the Cosmere learn that the circumstances of their lives (being skaa, darkeyed, etc.) have infinitely less affect on their happiness than the focus of their lives (helping others, swearing oaths, bringing down the Lord Ruler, becoming a better individual, etc.). Initially a lot of them are angry at their circumstances, but most (if not all) of the good characters move past that and focus on bettering themselves, and that's a really good message for today's world.

I'd argue they could use their righteous anger at a corrupt and broken system to change it, instead of having Jasnah swoop in and change a millennia old system of slavery and and a caste system with one stroke of the pen. Kaladin is right to be angry about how he was treated by the Lighteyes. Kelsier was right to be angry at the nobles and how they treated Ska. Even Vivenna was right to be angry at the Hallendren and their constant threat to destroy her home country. it's how you use that anger that makes the difference.

My eternal beef: Amaram was done dirty in Oathbringer and in general Brandon has a habit of taking complicated, conflicted, morally gray villains and turning them into mustache twirling villains so he can have his heroes guiltlessly kill them and move on to other villains. Amaram’s conversion to Odium should not have happened entirely off-screen and having him turn into a blob monster who could be killed without guilt was a bad decision by the author. 
 

Also, Brandon has had too many arranged marriages work-out and killed too many wives and mothers in people’s backstories. 

Also, I agree with Ella, Brandon dropped the ball on the class struggles and Kaladin should have stayed angry at the Lighteyes. 

On 9/28/2021 at 0:07 PM, VirtuousTraveller said:

You mean..."Dying is easy, young man, living is harder?" 

(That's a Hamilton reference, for those of you who don't already view Dalinar as hip-hop George Washington in your minds)

You’re saying death is light as a feather and duty is heavy as a mountain? 

Just want to add this after listening to the end… no one can say Kaladin isn’t ready for a relationship and should just be friends with people if they also think Shallan is ready to be in a relationship. 

Having depression doesn’t disqualify someone from being able to participate in life. 
 

First of all, I feel I have to state that Kaladin is my favorite character.

Secondly, I want to say that I myself have struggled with depression for years and Kaladin in Rhythm of War was very hard for me to read due to Depression feedback loops I was having with Kaladin.

I feel like Kaladin has come to the point in his story where he has finally realized that he cannot just be a surgeon, and he can't just be a soldier. He needs to be something else, something that successfully synthesizes his two identities, his two dueling sides.

I don't think being a therapist is all he's going to do. That is just being a surgeon, a different, more fulfilling kind of surgeon, but still just a surgeon. Kaladin loves fighting (but not killing), he's a great leader, and soon he will likely be a 5th ideal Windrunner. What does that make him?

I also don't think book 5 will just be Kaladin's end. From a story perspective, Kaladin's arc has been about learning to live with himself and accepting responsibility for the decisions he's made. I don't think it's narratively the right thing to do to have a character who's struggled with depression and thoughts of suicide to die a heroic, self-sacrificing death. I think it's narratively better if Kaladin can find some way to live his life in a fulfilling, satisfying way where he can combine the two conflicting sides of himself. It's also the harder thing for Kaladin to do. Dying heroically would be easy for Kaladin. Living happily is a better end for his character.

As far as Syladin goes... it didn't seem like a Romantic relationship was even possible so I never thought about it. Syl was written believably as a nonhuman character. Then Rhythm of War happened and, suddenly, it did seem possible. I don't know how I feel about it and it would depend, heavily, on how Brandon executed it. I'm not flat opposed to it, but I'd need to be convinced and Brandon couldn't skip any steps.

You guys are so rigid, technical, pedantic, and dependent on Brandon clearing up any and every thing for you that any ambiguity on Brandon’s part completely short circuits you.

Embrace the ambiguity.

Embrace the magic and fantasy of the stories. 
 

Embrace not knowing if it’s really Tien and really Nohadon and having to make your own judgement call. 

2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

Jasnah has accurate depictions of the Heralds from Wit who drew them for her. That's how she spots Taln and Shallash at the end of OB.  I don't know if Shallan has seen all those drawings or not. 

Either way I'm not on board with Shallan's mom being a Herald. They both might have red hair, but it feels like an unnecessary twist to Shallan's already very complicated backstory.

Plus, I think a Herald could dodge a child's blade if they are paying attention and want to. Taln grabbed two darts out of the air despite his stupor, Nale and Ishar displayed great ability to dodge and outmanuever adults in RoW. Jezrien just sat there drunk. Maybe a child could summon a blade and catch a Herald by surprise, but I dunno. 

"An unnecessary twist to Shallan's already very complicated backstory"

Her whole story is twists that further complicate her story. 

Also, a mother grieving over having to kill her daughter because she thinks she's about to end the world is not in the best head-space to dodge an instantly forming death-blade that they probably don't think the child has. Most adult's could dodge/block any attack from a child, but not if you don't know it's coming and it's a shard blade. 

Also, as a firm believer that Siah Aimians are Honor Spren that have been fully brought into the physical realm, and the Babatharnam and Natan people's have Siah Aimian blood... I think Honor Spren can and do have romantic relationships and can reproduce with humans if they have been fully brought into the physical realm. 

I'm not advocating for any future event or ship. I'm just stating what I think is true that has happened in the past based on the evidence I've seen.

16 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Chanarach would be unlikely to look Veden, though.

Why not? Jezrien passed as Alethi. Shalash and Taln pass as Makabaki. No one ever comments that Tezim doesn't look Tukari. Why couldn't Channa appear as Veden?

If Channa was hiding in Jah Kaved, she likely was there because she could pass as Veden. It's circular. We've never had either Shallan's mother's or Chana's face described on page so no one has had the oppurtunity to comment about their oddly shaped eyes or slightly shin features or whatever. The only thing we maybe know about Chana is that she has red hair., which is only from the Herald portraits that Brandon has said are generally accurate physical depictions.

I'm not saying Shallan's mother IS Chana, just that it can't be ruled out.

12 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

The obvious problem with the Chana theory is that the Stormfather's visions have shown our heroes accurate depictions of what the Heralds look like.  If Shallan had seen her mom there, she would have mentioned it!

I don't think Chana is ever directly mentioned as being seen in any of the visions, but even if she is, Chana in full battle regalia on the battlefield would look very different than as a rural, Vorin bright-lady. Even without any magical image manipulation going on. 

Plus Shallan's memory can never really be trusted. 

On 8/9/2021 at 2:27 AM, STAG said:

That’s what this thread has been about. Wax wouldn’t let a violent revolution like that happen, and for good reason.

But maybe a violent revolution should happen... hence my problem with Wax as a character.

1 hour ago, STAG said:

 

You assume that to be a government they must rule over all peoples. Even with the discovery of the Southerners an Elendel society ruled by a similar government is likely, not impossible. Things will change, of course, but why would the Southerners cause a complete and sudden upheaval of the old hierarchy.

(I didn’t mean to double post I’m so sorry)

What? No. I don’t care about the southern scadrians until we learn something about them. I want democratic reforms and the nobility to lose all actual power. It’s time for the Basins second republic. 

48 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

it's a good question. the thing is, while our western hystory and culture gave us the idea that "revolutionary"="good", the revolutionaries that vax fights are even worse than the establishment. none of the people that wax fought ever wanted "progress" in the first place. in fact, even in the real world a lot of revolutionaries have been on the wrong side, replacing something bad with something worse.

wax may not be on the right side of the story, but his opponents certainly are not. and wax is at least trying to improve things for all.

The Elendel basin needs to change. Brandon has very conveniently written all the people trying to change things to have nasty motives and nasty means, but that doesn't mean the basin doesn't need to change... they left the nobility in charge for god's sake. The SAME noble families from the time before the cadascendre are STILL in charge after. The society in the basin is stagnant and corrupt and Wax spends the entire time propping it up.

The biggest problem I've always had with era 2 is that I'm not sure Wax is on the right side of history. He's a rich nobleman who kills revolutionaries. He's basically a gunslinger in service to the establishment, an establishment that doesn't seem particularly worthy of being propped up.

But it's still the Rysn story about her journey to Aimia right?

The real question about Shallan's personalities is who is Shallan? Is the person Shallan considers Shallan the true synthesis of herself; is "Shallan" her core self? Or is "Shallan" just one more aspect of her fractured personalities along with the others and she won't be stable until she can accept and combine all elements of her personality into one person. I don't think Shallan is in a healthy place yet and I don't think she has fully figured out who she is. If Brandon intended differently he did a poor job of showing it. I find it troubling that a person on the brink who is having such major identity issues got married at the end of Oathbringer. Either Shallan has a rocky future ahead trying to reconcile all of her personalities or Brandon didn't explain himself very well in the rushed wrap-up of Oathbringer.