Moving Investiture

[+Aletus he/him]

So even before RoW, we saw Fused in Shadesmar, but they don't have the physical versions of their voidspren chilling out with them like when our humans go into the Cognitive Realm. 

Could it be that a gemheart is a trick needed to get a radiant spren off of Roshar? 

Or do you think it would tie the host -to- Roshar?

Edited December 1, 2020 by Arch1tect

[Honorless he/him]

1 hour ago, Arch1tect said:

So even before RoW, we saw Fused in Shadesmar, but they don't have the physical versions of their voidspren chilling out with them like when our humans go into the Cognitive Realm. 

Could it be that a gemheart is a trick needed to get a radiant spren off of Roshar? 

Or do you think it would tie the host -to- Roshar?

The Fused are not Bonded to Voidspren. They are more akin to spren themselves who take over a body.

I don't think capturing a spren in a Gemheart is all that is needed to move off-world, it's just another type of Bond really.

[+Aletus he/him]

I don't think it's as simple as putting one in the gemheart, but I think it might be part of -a- way to do it, 

Now I'm curious as to if a cognitive shadow could inhabit a gemheart, exactly like a fused. 

[LightReader she/her]

We need to see what the Regals look like in Shadesmar to know the answer to this, since they’re the ones with voidspren in their gemhearts.

[Silarn]

I think it's interesting to note here that Vasher seems to have revised his categories of BioChromatic entities. As we know, the manifestation of Spren is fairly unique to Roshar. Until Vasher came to Roshar, he believed himself and those like him to be the only sentient type of BioChromatic entity (which he then labeled type I) which was essentially a shadow of a person that had been invested and imprinted upon the cognitive realm. This means they can manifest as a living, physical entity as they used to be one. This would also apply to the Regals and other Fused, though it is perhaps a bit unusual that they require a host body to manifest fully in the physical realm.

He now believes spren - or perhaps 'true spren' - to be true Type I BioChromatic entities as they seem to be sentient life that has spontaneously manifested in the cognitive realm. However, as they are life that was created in the cognitive realm, their cognitive forms are not actually compatible with the physical realm. So what we see of spren in the physical realm is generally just an impression or aspect which manifests in the presence of sentient beings expressing those emotions. The bond allows the spren to manifest more completely in the physical realm, but they are still a step removed from their true cognitive forms (and sentience).

For some reason Ishar is trying to pull actual physical spren from the Cognitive realm into the Physical realm without relying on a bond.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Silarn

[+Aletus he/him]

1 hour ago, LightReader said:

We need to see what the Regals look like in Shadesmar to know the answer to this, since they’re the ones with voidspren in their gemhearts.

Could you imagine the entirety of Venli's arc being that some book down the road, she needs to go into Shadesmar for some reason, so she poofs in, instantly exploding - leaving completely terrified full form Timbre and Voidy huddled together in her viscera. 

[Silarn]

I'd guess that Regals and other Fused are a sort of modified cognitive echo. At one point they would have been much like the Heralds, but they've been modified substantially to the point where it's impossible for them to manifest in the physical realm without a host to 'ground' them. However, when they take over a host they seem to largely transform the host to something closer to their own perceived appearance. So I'd guess that they wouldn't be all that different in appearance to the cognitive realm, though I think it would be possible that their host body would be destroyed if they tried to enter the cognitive realm fully again.

That's a little different to a bonded Singer. I think it's still an open question how a bonded Singer would appear in the Cognitive. A similar question would be, what would happen to a gemstone with a captured spren (a modern fabrial) if you tried to take it to the cognitive realm - and I think we have a partial answer to that, right? When they try to transfer certain types of items with the Oathgate, things like Shardplate simply don't transfer. But you can transfer gems that have investiture captured within them. So it seems to be that physically captured spren are somewhat incompatible with Shadesmar.

But would that apply to a bonded Singer? And how exactly does the captured voidspren/true spren combo work - as singers only have a single gemheart - no?

Ed: Got Regals mixed with Fused. Regals and Radiants are two sides of the same coin, and we can only speculate without official WoB.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Silarn