Realistic DRAGON Wingspans

[Aspiring Writer]

I'm back with another fantasy trope that I am attempting to make more realistic, this time a personal and just all around favorite... Dragons. I believe it's common knowledge at this point that in reality, Dragons would not be able to fly with their current wingspan as in most depictions (And possibly all), and so, I have tried to calculate what an appropriate wingspan would be for Dragons. Now first off, Dragons like Larkons which are the size of birds are probably fine. The ones I'm focusing on are medium dragons (Human size) and Large dragons (Think GoT)

Now, for  Medium dragons, I took the weight of a 6-foot crocodile, which weighs about 2000 pounds (In reality, it's 2400, but I'm removing 400 for physical differences as well as having a little wiggle room with us being gods of our stories and being able to play around a bit.) Using this equation to calculate wingspan, Wingspan = Weight^.03326; X 2.43, I have determined that a Dragon of this size would have a wingspan of 30 feet, while a Large Dragon weighing 12,000 pounds (Weight of a T-rex) would need a wingspan of 55 feet. So dragons would look a little more like butterflies, where most of them are just wings with their 'little' body in the middle. And these are without including the weight of the wings themselves, and how easy it would be for a dragon to take off with wings that big. 

I put this here so one, people can check my math and tell me if and why I'm wrong and give me something more accurate for me to use, and two, so we can all talk about how these dragons would work in fantasy because the science behind dragons is quite fascinating. Also, if anyone can, could some draw a dragon with the proportional wingsspan so people an have a visual reference?

[Trutharchivist he/him]

I don't know anything about the wingspan that should make flying possible, but I've heard of a book called Flight of Dragons that is about it's physical possibility. It's probably not really all that much scientific, but it's still interesting.

Silly question: do you think dragons could be as big but with less mass? I guess the answer is no, but it could help the problem too. Though it might make them more vulnerable in close range fights. How much should their scales weight?

[Aspiring Writer]

3 minutes ago, Trutharchivist said:

I don't know anything about the wingspan that should make flying possible, but I've heard of a book called Flight of Dragons that is about it's physical possibility. It's probably not really all that much scientific, but it's still interesting.

Silly question: do you think dragons could be as big but with less mass? I guess the answer is no, but it could help the problem too. Though it might make them more vulnerable in close range fights. How much should their scales weight?

Actually, yes. That 400 pounds I removed was for things like scales, where I feel the writer can make it really light as well as durable, which would make Dragons still quite terrifying and still give them that mystical feel. Another way is hollow bones, like with elephants, which does make them slightly more susceptible to damage, which would be something Humans can use against them. 

[Condensation she/her]

Hollow bones should definitely be a thing(like birds) and I will work on drawing a realistic dragon.

[+Krox he/him]

Yes hollow bones will have an impact but also remember that for a human the bones are only 10-15% of your total weight - assuming the same (without any basis in science) for something weighing 900 pounds (I hate working in these units, but I'll deal...) and hollowing bone to weigh half of original you still only get 45 pounds reduction in weight!

I think that I would go for dinosaur references instead of the crocodile:
https://www.livescience.com/24071-pterodactyl-pteranodon-flying-dinosaurs.html
Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatlus

 

And science does think these ones did fly!

Edited November 18, 2020 by Krox
added image, still can't figure how to embed them into the text...

[Condensation she/her]

17 hours ago, Krox said:

 

You put your blinky cursor thing somewhere and then click the plus button.

[+Krox he/him]

3 hours ago, Condensation said:

You put your blinky cursor thing somewhere and then click the plus button.

I... Blinky cursor... What?

[Aspiring Writer]

11 minutes ago, Krox said:

I... Blinky cursor... What?

Maybe he accidentally sent an explanation of the quote function in the wrong thread?

[+Krox he/him]

2 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

Maybe he accidentally sent an explanation of the quote function in the wrong thread?

Maybe, still don't understand the blinky cursor

[Condensation she/her]

8 hours ago, Krox said:

I... Blinky cursor... What?

You know, the thing that you type from?

8 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

Maybe he accidentally sent an explanation of the quote function in the wrong thread?

Me? I'm a she. It's an explanation of how to add the pictures where you want them. 

[+Krox he/him]

15 hours ago, Condensation said:

You know, the thing that you type from?

Ah, THAT blinky cursor!

And THIS plus-sign!

 

You've got to upload the image to the post first though - a tad confusing the first time around. I probably should have googled it though!

Also, sorry for taking over the thread @Aspiring Writer!

Edited November 20, 2020 by Krox

[Aspiring Writer]

7 minutes ago, Krox said:

Ah, THAT blinky cursor!

And THIS plus-sign!

 

You've got to upload the image to the post first though - a tad confusing the first time around. I probably should have googled it though!

Also, sorry for taking over the thread @Aspiring Writer!

WHy are you apologizing? It's fine. Not like anyone is talking about dragons here anyways.

[Trutharchivist he/him]

2 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

WHy are you apologizing? It's fine. Not like anyone is talking about dragons here anyways.

What? I'm talking about dragon! Though addmitedly, I have only one post in this topic. I actually have a full YouTube video about dragons - mainly about their varying intaligence level - but it's in Hebrew. Sorry. 

Back on the topic, apparently I don't have much to say about it, especially since I know practically nothing about why it's supposedly impossible for them to fly. I already wrote about the book that tried to explain dragons' flight physical possibility, and I believe it was about using lighter-than-air gas. Again, maybe you should check that out. This is the Wikipedia article about this book. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Trutharchivist

[Condensation she/her]

9 hours ago, Krox said:

Ah, THAT blinky cursor!

And THIS plus-sign!

 

You've got to upload the image to the post first though - a tad confusing the first time around. I probably should have googled it though!

Also, sorry for taking over the thread @Aspiring Writer!

Yeah, those. Sorry about that.

[Hoid the Former Drifter he/him]

simple answer to your dilemma: Spren bond to dragons the same way they bond to rhyshadiums

[Aspiring Writer]

45 minutes ago, Hoid the Drifter said:

simple answer to your dilemma: Spren bond to dragons the same way they bond to rhyshadiums

Um, I don't exactly have spren, but there is a way where I can make them reduce their overall weight with a magic system, but they already have a magic system for fire breathing and I don't want them to be too overpowered. Also, it is fun to work around those restrictions of realism, makes the world feel more real and thought out.

[Trutharchivist he/him]

9 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

Um, I don't exactly have spren, but there is a way where I can make them reduce their overall weight with a magic system, but they already have a magic system for fire breathing and I don't want them to be too overpowered. Also, it is fun to work around those restrictions of realism, makes the world feel more real and thought out.

How exactly this magic system work? Can't it also make them able to fly? (Have you read Discworld? there are some weird dragon stuff in the Night Guard mini-series in it.)

[Aspiring Writer]

4 minutes ago, The Worldookler said:

How exactly this magic system work? Can't it also make them able to fly? (Have you read Discworld? there are some weird dragon stuff in the Night Guard mini-series in it.)

No, I have not read disc world. Is it good?

Also, I will be putting up posts of how aspects of my magic system work in Creator's Corner because there is a lot (The Teleportation vs Portals is one) but in this case, the dragons would manipulate the force of gravity and decrease their weight like how a Chasmfiend works. I'd likely make it so they have little to no control over it if I included that. And no, there isn't a simple 'flight' ability, though there are ways to fly like how a Windrunner flies (Aka, gravity manipulation.)

[Trutharchivist he/him]

Just now, Aspiring Writer said:

No, I have not read disc world. Is it good?

Also, I will be putting up posts of how aspects of my magic system work in Creator's Corner because there is a lot (The Teleportation vs Portals is one) but in this case, the dragons would manipulate the force of gravity and decrease their weight like how a Chasmfiend works. I'd likely make it so they have little to no control over it if I included that. And no, there isn't a simple 'flight' ability, though there are ways to fly like how a Windrunner flies (Aka, gravity manipulation.)

I actually wondered about whether the fire ability and the flight ability could be part of the same magic system, but thanks.

Discworld is an interesting series, though it's more of a comic fantasy. It's basically a satire on our world, sometimes on the fantasy genre.

[Aspiring Writer]

Just now, The Worldookler said:

I actually wondered about whether the fire ability and the flight ability could be part of the same magic system, but thanks.

Discworld is an interesting series, though it's more of a comic fantasy. It's basically a satire on our world, sometimes on the fantasy genre.

They technically are, I just don't want to give them two powers. It's a long story, but for this world in my universe, I'm trying to keep them restricted to one until they are more advanced (I have lots of future plans) It is possible, I'd just rather not.

[Hoid the Former Drifter he/him]

11 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

I just don't want to give them two powers

okay, heat rises. problem solved.

[Aspiring Writer]

1 minute ago, Hoid the Drifter said:

okay, heat rises. problem solved.

... Um, while that will help a bit, I don't think that's enough and not completely how the fire breath works. Also, I'm fine with inconveniently large wingspans, it's not seen much and can add flavor to the universe. This was more to discuss how to get realistic dragons, not how to magically fix the problem. That I can easily do. In fact, I do. There is a dragon that can do that.

[Hoid the Former Drifter he/him]

Just now, Aspiring Writer said:

... Um, while that will help a bit, I don't think that's enough and not completely how the fire breath works.

is there a problem with it? Also, if it can solve the problem, isn't it more convenient to have a dragon that can fit into smaller spaces?

1 minute ago, Aspiring Writer said:

There is a dragon that can do that.

which dragon can do what?

[Hoid the Former Drifter he/him]

Quote

from @Aspiring Writer: More dead inside than Kaladin, More determined than Daliner, More confused than Shallan, More absurd than Lift, More concerned than Adolin, More frustrated than Navani, More psychotic than Kelsier, and I ran out. 

More stubborn than Kenton, more inquisitive than khriss, more enduring than hoid, more divided than venli, more graceful than vin

you're welcome, @Aspiring Writer

Edited December 18, 2020 by Hoid the Drifter

[Aspiring Writer]

Just now, Hoid the Drifter said:

is there a problem with it? Also, if it can solve the problem, isn't it more convenient to have a dragon that can fit into smaller spaces?

which dragon can do what?

A problem with what? And yes, it would be more convenient, but having such large wings gives them a clear weakness to contrast their other powerful skills like fire breath and really light yet protective scales. (Also, I am going to handwave it so they can fold their wings really well, the size will only be an issue for flight.)

Also, this dragon is a god that can shapeshift, gravity manipulates, light manipulates, energy manipulates, and more. He is one of the more powerful beings in my universe.