Lirin

[Commander Azure]

I think that Lirin is, not necessarily in this book, but at some point, become a Radiant with access to Regrowth, and accept that the concept of war isn't evil. No evidence or anything, but I think that this would be really cool if it happened.

[Gderu]

10 hours ago, Commander Azure said:

I think that Lirin is, not necessarily in this book, but at some point, become a Radiant with access to Regrowth, and accept that the concept of war isn't evil. No evidence or anything, but I think that this would be really cool if it happened.

I actually really disagree. I think that he offers a very refreshing viewpoint, one which I mostly agree with. War is evil, and the world would be better off if no one engaged in it.

Of course, that's idealistic. We need war to defend ourselves and our rights, but that does not mean that we should just accept war as a necessity of life. It is important to always remember that war is bad, to remember that we should be working against it. With Jasnah's extremist opinions about the war, that the only solution is to defeat the singers before they can destroy human society, the humans are in dire need of a voice encouraging peace. I think Lirin can be that voice.

[Aon Tia]

1 hour ago, Gderu said:

I think Lirin can be that voice.

I think Kaladin can be that voice. I believe that his arc has always gone in this direction. He has forever been plagued by this dilemma: can you protect people by killing others or not ? No doubt it is Lirin’s influence on him but I believe that kaladin has already begun to question futility of war, and that is the reason behind his lethargy, I think.

[Gisaku75]

13 hours ago, Commander Azure said:

I think that Lirin is, not necessarily in this book, but at some point, become a Radiant with access to Regrowth, and accept that the concept of war isn't evil. No evidence or anything, but I think that this would be really cool if it happened.

But the concept of var is evil.

The current situation was caused by Gavilar, he wanted to unleash a desolation because he believed the only way to bring all peoples together was to wage a war against the Voidbringers. Elhokar, with Dalinar's approval, has found no better way to keep the kingdom united than to wage a war against the Parshedi. The war turned into a cruel game that pushed the Parshedi to the brink of extinction. And in their despair the Parshedis turned to the Voidbringers.
I believe that the presence of a convinced pacifist would only be good for the coalition, given the mess made by the militarists.

[Commander Azure]

15 hours ago, Gisaku75 said:

But the concept of var is evil.

 

What I meant is that, while peace is always the better option, war is sometimes necessary (an example could be WWII against the Nazis). Maybe I should have said the concept of war isn't necessarily evil.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Commander Azure

[Kingsdaughter613]

I’m in agreement on Lirin becoming Radiant, but not on him switching his opinions on War.

[ZenBossanova]

I think Dalinar will direct Lirin to study mental health, and he will become a pioneer in this field. Lirin's son will also be a motivating factor here. 

Physical healing is relatively easy, with Stormlight. Mental is going to become more critical, especially if Odium & Co. are going to be trying to break you at your weakest point, as we saw with Kaladin. 

[Xerun]

Hmmm I don’t know. Originally I would have agreed with you but as the series goes on I find Lirin to be a bit more annoying then anything. His treatment of Kaladin implies he doesn’t think of Kaladin as an equal who is capable of his own decisions. He wants Kaladin to follow his own ideas without question and is angry and disappointed when he doesn’t. 
 

that doesn’t scream Radiant to me 

[nbozb]

48 minutes ago, Xerun said:

that doesn’t scream Radiant to me 

I disagree. Radiants seem to come in all different shape and sizes, with moralities that don't align perfectly with all the other orders. And Radiants aren't perfect. I think he's still in the running for being a Radiant.

[BasementDwellingRadiant]

3 hours ago, Xerun said:

Hmmm I don’t know. Originally I would have agreed with you but as the series goes on I find Lirin to be a bit more annoying then anything. His treatment of Kaladin implies he doesn’t think of Kaladin as an equal who is capable of his own decisions. He wants Kaladin to follow his own ideas without question and is angry and disappointed when he doesn’t. 
 

that doesn’t scream Radiant to me 

Because no parent has ever been disappointed with their child's path in life. He is being too extreme, yes. But, that just means there is room for him to grow, to improve, and to become better. There was a theory some time ago that if Lirin were to become a Radiant, he wouldn't be an Edgedancer or Truthwatcher(the two healer orders), but a Stoneward. And, I can't help but think he fits most of their defining points to a T. Granted, I don't see him being into sporting events or weaponry. But, he is stubborn to a fault in holding to his pacifism and I suspect a good surgeon might need to improvise solutions at times. Plus, he could benefit quite a lot from a path of Oaths focused on Teamwork and getting along with others.

From Sanderson's Website...

Quote

Stoneward oaths focus on team dynamics, on learning to work with others, and on being there for those who need them. They put the interests of others before their own, and will not bend their Ideals for the sake of convenience.

Stonewards are the infantry and ground troops of the Radiants and are renowned as their finest soldiers. (A title that, on occasion, the Windrunners dispute.) They tend to attract those who are most interested in warfare, prowess with weapons, or athletics of any sort. They like a challenge, and in times of peace are seen engaging in (and running) various sporting events of both a military and non-military nature. Many enjoy the outdoors, and you’ll find exploration enthusiasts among them, as well as those who just like the fresh air. They tend to be known for their can-do attitudes and for taking on enormous projects (sometimes more than they can handle). However, most agree that the primary attribute of the Stonewards is their dependability. Though sometimes gregarious, they are never flighty. If a Stoneward is your friend, they will be there for you, and that is a core tenet of their Order—to be there when they are needed. Another key attribute is their ability to take a difficult situation with few resources and make something better of it. Though not known as inventors or creators, they are good at improvising solutions to problems in the moment.

 

[Xerun]

56 minutes ago, BasementDwellingRadiant said:

Because no parent has ever been disappointed with their child's path in life. He is being too extreme, yes. But, that just means there is room for him to grow, to improve, and to become better. There was a theory some time ago that if Lirin were to become a Radiant, he wouldn't be an Edgedancer or Truthwatcher(the two healer orders), but a Stoneward. And, I can't help but think he fits most of their defining points to a T. Granted, I don't see him being into sporting events or weaponry. But, he is stubborn to a fault in holding to his pacifism and I suspect a good surgeon might need to improvise solutions at times. Plus, he could benefit quite a lot from a path of Oaths focused on Teamwork and getting along with others.

From Sanderson's Website...

 

I mean the third line there “they put the interest of others ahead of their own” seems directly against his putting his own opinions of Kaladin ahead of Kaladins own desires. 
 

before the chapters we’ve seen I’d hve said that Lirin seemed Radiant bound. But now I think otherwise. I feel like this book is going to show a more negative side of Lirin that is a source of Kaladins depression. Getting to know his parents now that he’s seen as a hero and having his father constantly disappointed in him can’t be helping him. 

[Robot]

On 29/8/2020 at 8:05 AM, Gderu said:

I actually really disagree. I think that he offers a very refreshing viewpoint, one which I mostly agree with. War is evil, and the world would be better off if no one engaged in it.

Of course, that's idealistic. We need war to defend ourselves and our rights, but that does not mean that we should just accept war as a necessity of life. It is important to always remember that war is bad, to remember that we should be working against it. With Jasnah's extremist opinions about the war, that the only solution is to defeat the singers before they can destroy human society, the humans are in dire need of a voice encouraging peace. I think Lirin can be that voice.

Lirin understands some people need to fight, he just doesn't want Kaladin to be one of them.

[Person]

I hope he does not become  Radiant. Some people need to not be demigods, after all. If he does turn out to be a Radiant, then I think that he would become a Truthwatcher. I think that he would have access to Regrowth, but I just cannot think of an old, balding man slipping about like an Edgedancer. XD

[+Bliev]

On 8/31/2020 at 2:34 AM, Xerun said:

I mean the third line there “they put the interest of others ahead of their own” seems directly against his putting his own opinions of Kaladin ahead of Kaladins own desires. 

If I were taking Lirin's perspective, I would probably say, "It's Kaladin that isn't putting others first--he's made this about what *he* wants and *his* sense of honor, and doesn't understand that his actions threaten the immediate interests of thousands." And...he wouldn't be wrong?

Edit: this is why I think Lirin is going to help Kaladin see more nuance in his oaths, which will be necessary for him to progress.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Bliev

[Pathfinder]

I still hold to my theory of the possibility that Lirin will become a dustbringer. I think it fits his personality, and would be interesting to see a pacifist show how he can use the powers of the dustrbringers in peaceful ways.