Odium Using Division?

[+Child of Hodor]

In Oathbringer chapter 109 Dalinar and Venli are in one of Honor's Visions when Odium breaks in and trashes it. He does it in a very specific way, by separating each component part.

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The bricks in the room's wall separated from one another and began to float apart. The boards that made up the balcony began to lift, nails floating into the sky. A guard ran to the balcony, but stumbled, and his very skin seemed to separate into water and a dried husk. 

Everything just ... came apart. ... Boards shredded to splinters

 

Dalinar frees Venli from the Vision, but is consumed by Odium's golden light and feels like he's being split apart. 

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Dalinar dissolved into pure pain. He felt himself being ripped apart, shredded. Each piece of him removed and allowed to hurt in isolation. A punishment, a retribution a personalized torment. It could have persisted for an eternity. 

So ...

1) Is this a form of Divison being used? Division, like all the surges is a fundamental force in the Cosmere that people can manipulate (if invested in the right way). Odium is certainly invested. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/13/#e5020

2)  Is this how Odium splinters shards? Brandon has says his method is distantly related to how the 16 did it. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3456 Odium is not looking to splinter shards in a special way he just wants them torn up and not able to be picked up by anyone. Shredding it with this Division-esque power seems simple enough.  

3) Is this what happens to the Heralds? I know the Fused are said to be the ones that hunt and capture the Heralds on Braize, but the Heralds that have thought about the torture think of their flesh being torn and being burned. Here Odium tears people apart and in other cognitive realm encounters he burns Venli and Dalinar.   Maybe he's forbidden from doing real damage to teh Heralds by some pact with H&C, Mistborn SH spoilers

Spoiler

but cognitive realm pain was a loophole for Hoid who is magically prohibited from harming people. 

Stormfather mentions in OB CH. 38 that the Heralds would hide on Braize to delay being caught and tortured. I assume from the Fused. You'd think Odium would help though since it seems like he is "in residence" on Braize. To the extent that location has any meaning to a Shard. Wouldn't he be like "guys they're over there"? Shards aren't omniscient, but Khriss's description of the planet makes it sound like there is not a lot going on there aside from some cognitive shadows (heralds and fused). Should be easy for a Shard to detect activity if they wanted to. 

4) Is Odium naturally great at Division? Is this why Rayse wanted it, because it would make tearing up his rivals easier? Dividing is a big part of his MO. Both with people and Elantris spoilers:

Spoiler

Brandon has said pitting shards against each other was part of his strategy on Sel.  https://wob.coppermind.net/events/122/#e7169

 

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

1) Is this a form of Divison being used? Division, like all the surges is a fundamental force in the Cosmere that people can manipulate (if invested in the right way).

Khriss does not support that the surges are a fundamental force.

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

2)  Is this how Odium splinters shards?

How Odium splinters shards is one of the most RAFOed questions sharders have ever asked.  I personally don't think that a Rosharan understanding of what a fundamental force is is involved but we have very little understanding of how shardic combat works.

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

3) Is this what happens to the Heralds? I know the Fused are said to be the ones that hunt and capture the Heralds on Braize, but the Heralds that have thought about the torture think of their flesh being torn and being burned. Here Odium tears people apart and in other cognitive realm encounters he burns Venli and Dalinar.   Maybe he's forbidden from doing real damage to teh Heralds by some pact with H&C, Mistborn SH spoilers

By your own spoiler quote I think that the Heralds would have found the same solution by now.  I have always seen it as some kind of soul torture.

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

Wouldn't he be like "guys they're over there"? Shards aren't omniscient, but Khriss's description of the planet makes it sound like there is not a lot going on there aside from some cognitive shadows (heralds and fused). Should be easy for a Shard to detect activity if they wanted to. 

It might have been a game of cat and mouse.  Let the heralds feel like they can escape and then shatter that feeling by catching them again.  Alternatively they may have had some kind of block.  Like the IRE do in SH.

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

4) Is Odium naturally great at Division? Is this why Rayse wanted it, because it would make tearing up his rivals easier? Dividing is a big part of his MO. Both with people and Elantris spoilers:

Maybe.  It does seem like breaking people into camps is a major part of Odium's MO.  We see this in the real world all the time.

[Honorless he/him]

Hmm, I always saw it as the Surges being built upon the fundamental forces in the Cosmere or their equivalent. Not the Surges themselves being fundamental forces. I think the Surge of Adhesion or Transportation are Roshar specific, but Connection (or manipulation of Pressure & Vacuum) and the Three Realms are Cosmere wide

[+Child of Hodor]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Khriss does not support that the surges are a fundamental force.

How Odium splinters shards is one of the most RAFOed questions sharders have ever asked.  I personally don't think that a Rosharan understanding of what a fundamental force is is involved but we have very little understanding of how shardic combat works.

By your own spoiler quote I think that the Heralds would have found the same solution by now.  I have always seen it as some kind of soul torture.

It might have been a game of cat and mouse.  Let the heralds feel like they can escape and then shatter that feeling by catching them again.  Alternatively they may have had some kind of block.  Like the IRE do in SH.

Maybe.  It does seem like breaking people into camps is a major part of Odium's MO.  We see this in the real world all the time.

@Karger He does RAFO it, but it does closely touch on "How was Adonalsium shattered?" People often ask the two together. You're right though we don't know enough. 

8 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Hmm, I always saw it as the Surges being built upon the fundamental forces in the Cosmere or their equivalent. Not the Surges themselves being fundamental forces. I think the Surge of Adhesion or Transportation are Roshar specific, but Connection (or manipulation of Pressure & Vacuum) and the Three Realms are Cosmere wide

As the WOB I linked to above said the surges allow people to access / manipulate 10 fundamental forces. 

 

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Argent

My understanding of the... spren is that they grant powers based on what they understand to be fundamental? Ish?

Brandon Sanderson

Ish. I wouldn't 100% go with that. I would say these are the fundamental forces-- They aren't as scientific as our fundamental forces, but I would say it's more than just what the spren view and what the humans view in that case. But they are more philosophical than scientific, in cases.

Argent

Other cognitive beings, could they-- A spren on Earth. Would it grant electromagnetism surge, for example?

Brandon Sanderson

That, I would say yes.

Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018)

 

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Questioner

The ten Surges on Roshar, I think you've said are basically a different set of laws of physics.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Questioner

Are those laws of physics consistent throughout the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, to an extent. You would consider, like - it's kind of weird because I based them on the idea of the fundamental forces, but this is kind of like a human construction. You could say that physics is pure and natural, but we're still putting things in boxes. And the scientists on Roshar would, for instance, consider being able to travel between the Cognitive and Physical Realms as a force, the thing that pulls people back and forth between that, as a fundamental force. I don't know if it would fit our definition of a fundamental force.

Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016)

 

 

 

 

[Honorless he/him]

we're reading the WoBs differently, let's just agree to disagree 

[The Awakened Salad they/them]

Stormlight 10 Theory: Odium divides by zero and angers Pattern, who then proceeds to destroy Odium while screaming "No mating!" the whole time. The end.