Can I get some magic system help?

[1st of Lunch he/him]

So I've been working on this system for a while. It's not very complicated but the main issue is that it so far does not have any real limitations or consequences. Does it really need them being so simple or...?

Anyway, without further ado...

Magic System:

Carving, Woodsmiths, several names...

The ability to transform wood into steel, retaining the light weight of wood and the grain. The way it works is basically based on the fact that all known lifeforms are carbon based and the transformation is because the Carvers can manipulate and expand/multiply the carbon content in biological life. While the focus is on trees (some plants) as the most available and easiest form of life to manipulate the power can actually be used on any biological matter with a carbon base.

 

Classes of users:
 

Carvers - with full control over their abilities a Carver can literally mold the shape of wood to his will, warping the grain structures. The carvers in Ironwood (a small village of refugees) are limited by dampening fields, however, although they carve using bladed tools they are also using their abilities without knowing. This is why the good ones can be so good at what they do - the chips just seem to fall away beneath their knives and leave behind beautifully intricate carvings.
 

Tempers - (I'm open to different names for these) Tempers are the hardening aspect here. They are the ones who channel their own energy to harden the wood. Full tempers can harden a piece in seconds with just a thought, Ironwood (in the Village) tempers have to perform complex katas to help them concentrate through the dampening fields enough to slow harden a piece, meaning the process takes hours after the touch, and sometimes takes multiple Tempers.
 

Husbanders - Husbanders have a natural ability to help the trees grow more quickly and to strengthen the grain structure. With all three aspects working in tandem the original Carvers grew trees with the tightest grain structure possible which enabled the Tempers to harden them beyond what normal steel would be and still not be brittle or heavy like equivalent steel would be. Carving would be done before tempering, of course.
 

Woodsmith (Fullsmith) - can do all, though not always 100% in every area. Basically the "Avatar" of the story only there can be more than one at a time.

 

In future books (if I ever make it past book one - lol) I plan for there to be a "dark side" of sorts called a Steelblood. This is where the aspect of using things other than trees comes in to play. A Steelblood is a Fullsmith who can use his abilities to manipulate any material made of organic matter (even if its not living at the time), including human flesh. This is why it has become a forbidden/forgotten art. Carving can be used to make weapons but is not to be weaponized itself.

 

Anyway, there it is so let me know what you think! Thanks!

 

 

[+ILuvHats he/him]

If you're looking to add limitations to the magic system, your options are pretty much unlimited. Here's a few questions you should be asking.

- How do magic users fuel their magic? Are they drawing on an external force, their own body/life force in some way, or other's bodies? Maybe their own sanity? This allows you to determine the upper limit on what they can do. 

- Does using the magic change them in some way? Are the side effects immediately obvious or do they gradually appear over time due to sustained use? Are the consequences good or bad or both?

- What are the differences between different classes of magic users? Maybe each one suffers different side effects/consequences that are tied to their abilities. This would inherently help balance Woodsmiths if they suffer all the consequences in addition to having all the abilities. 

You've probably answered a decent number of these questions, but if you want to add more limitations maybe you should reconsider what some of the answers are. If you're looking for specific ideas, here are a few. 

- A side effect of manipulating the growth of organic matter is uncontrolled growth in the magic user's body. So they get tumors. They could be cancerous or noncancerous. If you want your magic users to generally be able to live to a ripe old rage, maybe tumor growth doesn't occur significantly unless they overextend themselves, so they've learned to moderate their use. This would also mean that Steelbloods would have much shorter lifespans since using the abilities for combat is going to be much more intensive than using it for craftsmanship.

- Every time a magic user uses their abilities on organic matter, they become aligned with the object and come to know it fully. I'm imagining they see the entire "lifetime" of the object as well as it's "perspective." They don't necessarily retain all of the information, but they come out of it with a greater sense of what or who they used their powers on. As a result of this, magic users are generally pacifists as a natural outgrowth of their powers is that they see the value in all life. I still think they could create weapons, because the world isn't black and white and sometimes weapons can save lives in the long run. However, due to this world view, it's taboo to use their abilities on living matter, or anything that used to be human since even on dead flesh it's considered a violation of that person. This makes Steelbloods even more monstrous since they need to be extremely callous, perhaps even borderline psychopathic to use their powers for destruction.

I haven't the faintest clue if either of these ideas fit with your setting the story you want to tell, but hopefully they spark some ideas of your own. I think it's an interesting magic system you built so far. It just needs a touch more to expand it, though maybe I'm just saying that because I haven't actually seen the world building ramifications. Anyways, I hope to hear more about it in the future. 

[1st of Lunch he/him]

@Ooklidean Geometry Thanks for the reply, those are some good questions to be asking. I really want things to stay fairly basic and not get real complex. While the magic definitely is critical to the story it isn't the whole story, just one cog of the wheel out of many. I really like your idea about the Steelbloods being so calloused, even borderline psychopathic. That could get fun, kinda make them Steel Inquisitor-ish. 

On a different note...I've been away from the shard a month or two and I come back to find everyone's changed the name to Ookla this or that - what's that all about?

[+ILuvHats he/him]

@1st of Lunch Here’s a thread explaining what the ookla thing’s about.

 

[1st of Lunch he/him]

Anyone else care to take a look? I'm trying to decide if I should give the "magic users" a consequence &/or weakness or not. The reason I wouldn't would be that it's a fairly simple system and I think weakness or consequences might complicate it. On the other hand, maybe it's too simple to be really entertaining and needs the added complexity of conflict. I dunno, you tell me...

[Ixthos he/him]

12 hours ago, 1st of Lunch said:

Anyone else care to take a look? I'm trying to decide if I should give the "magic users" a consequence &/or weakness or not. The reason I wouldn't would be that it's a fairly simple system and I think weakness or consequences might complicate it. On the other hand, maybe it's too simple to be really entertaining and needs the added complexity of conflict. I dunno, you tell me...

Adding a weakness is usually not a problem for some systems, even if the weakness is just a cultures attitude, or being hunted by people who think the abilities are evil, etc. I like the tiered abilities, that different people can do different things and need one another to realise their full abilities - shaping wood is meaningless without wood to shape, hardening is meaningless without wood in the right shape, husbanding is meaningless if no-one makes use of the wood, etc. Though I am a bit confused as to how the carbon content relates to steel - is the power to temper the ability to turn carbon into iron?

 

If you are interested in possible weaknesses, one example is the cultural attitude I mentioned above - maybe one nation has members who hate those who have these abilities, possibly due to historical events that give them some sympathetic motives but deplorable responses, or maybe only one nation has these abilities and so other nations fear them or are trying to kidnap members to gain the abilities for their own use. Or using the ability requires a long time to fully prepare and so one needs to spend days getting ready before one can make something for carvers or tempers. Another possibility is that using the ability causes pain or makes one more easily fall ill ([Edit] or if the tree is diseases the person working it might get sick from that, and the disease isn't easy to detect).

 

This does look like an interesting system. What is the nature of the culture and how has it affected them?

Edited December 11, 2019 by Ixthos

[+Ark1002]

18 hours ago, 1st of Lunch said:

Anyone else care to take a look? I'm trying to decide if I should give the "magic users" a consequence &/or weakness or not. The reason I wouldn't would be that it's a fairly simple system and I think weakness or consequences might complicate it. On the other hand, maybe it's too simple to be really entertaining and needs the added complexity of conflict. I dunno, you tell me...

I shall, at some point, give it a look

[1st of Lunch he/him]

17 hours ago, Ixthos said:

Though I am a bit confused as to how the carbon content relates to steel - is the power to temper the ability to turn carbon into iron?

Yeah, I was attempting to "science" the powers out a little and give a plausible explanation- essentially they would expand the carbon to all the rest of the body/wood turning it to carbon steel. I think im just going to leave mysterious though - they just do it.

 

18 hours ago, Ixthos said:

If you are interested in possible weaknesses, one example is the cultural attitude I mentioned above - maybe one nation has members who hate those who have these abilities, possibly due to historical events that give them some sympathetic motives but deplorable responses, or maybe only one nation has these abilities and so other nations fear them or are trying to kidnap members to gain the abilities for their own use. Or using the ability requires a long time to fully prepare and so one needs to spend days getting ready before one can make something for carvers or tempers. Another possibility is that using the ability causes pain or makes one more easily fall ill ([Edit] or if the tree is diseases the person working it might get sick from that, and the disease isn't easy to detect).

So, the cultural aspect I tricky...the main characters are all from a culture that has been made up/ manipulated by an oppressive but deceptive alien alliance called The Sovereignty. This makes it hard to do much with the "cultural" suggestion as they will be discovering as they go along in the story line that the one the once thought to be their Saviors are truly their captors.

 

12 hours ago, Ookla the Dog Hater said:

I shall, at some point, give it a look

That is all I could ask for. Thank you in advance.