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A weird Shardplate idea


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Not sure if this will broach cosmere-wideness, but...

So the highstorms, gemhearts, all that, was around before Honor and Cultivation, and Odium for that matter. H&C insinuated themselves into the already existent magic (btw, do we know if there was a Nightwatcher before Cultivation? We know there was a Stormfather, yeah?). There seem to be analogues and tethers of the prior magic, in the Knights-system, like the use of gems to bind Shardblades.

Now, when someone swallows the Yelig-nar crystal, they start growing crystals out of their body. And the seamless way Shardplate fits together, reminds me of the listener armor being seamless (as their skin). So this is my theory of Shardplate: it is a benign analogue of the listener armor, adapted harmonically from the source. By contrast, Yelig-nar is a malignant adaptation of either the original listener armor-potential, the Knights-system, or both.

If this were true, lesser spren could still play a role in the process of Shardplate creation. Let's suppose the listeners had their own entire spren ecology prior to humans coming: because listeners had their own concepts, memes, etc. that were different enough such that listener lifespren (for instance) might've been different from the glowing green things we see now. Indeed, the ability of the spren to be corrupted might be mediated by all the modern spren being tied to humans such that the implicit corruption of human cognitive society (on Roshar) imprints a vulnerability into modern spren, that Odium's forces can as such exploit. But so anyway, maybe there was something in the original spren that contributed to the listener armor-potential, and later spren were interwoven into the analogue process for the Knights?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm really confused by what you're trying to get at here. I don't really follow your point. I'm sorry that I'm going to be nit-picky, but it looks like a maze of threads that need to be untangled.

According to the Coppermind, the exact date of the Stormfather's existence is unknown.  He may have existed as long as the highstorms have. He may have only been created by Honor. At the same time, his power and memory in his current form have come from being strengthened by a dying Honor, and his ability to understand humans has greatly improved only during his time bonded to Dalinar. I don't think we can say that the Stormfather would be instrumental in any pre-Honor and Cultivation on Roshar.  The Nightwatcher is explicitly referred to as Cultivation's child. The Coppermind says that she may have been changed from another spren by Cultivation, but it seems that change was a big one.

I'm not sure where you're going with the use of gems to bind Shardblades as any kind of analog to a theoretical older magic system. The gems are only post Recreance, and I don't see any connection to something we know of before Honor and Cultivation. I'm probably missing your point here.

Shardplate, at least how we see it on modern Roshar (Dead Shardplate) isn't truly seamless. The pieces fit together exceedingly well, but there is definitely mail or other armor between certain places in the armor. The armored carapace of the Parshendi doesn't seem to appear truly seamless either; it is strengthened bone that is forming a protective layering.  It also seems to be little more effective than regular armor for human troops.

And your last paragraph isn't much clearer, at least as it goes to Shardplate. It looks like your idea is that whatever spren that the Dawnsingers brought into their gemhearts for Warform is somehow changed overtime into a similar but different spren that forms Radiant Shardplate, but still exists to power Warform?

I would argue that whatever Living Shardplate was made of, I do not think it can be any evolution of Dawnsinger examples.  Plate and armor are too much of a human concept to be adapted from the Singers, and we know that the humans had a fair basis of knowledge before they came to Roshar. After all, their relatives who didn't escape were able to create floating cities fast enough to survive on Ashyn.  They also have some evidence of metallurgy, as the Coppermind mentions that some have flintlock pistols. I find the idea of Living Shardplate forming from the Radiant's cognitive image of armor to make more sense than there being some adapted earlier spren. Then again, I'm still not a fan of the 'lesser spren make Shardplate' theory.

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Also confused by the post but although I like the idea of spren being corrupted by humans perception coming to roshar ( I think that's what you were saying) I don't think that would have any effect on singer vs. shardplate armor. If we corrupted the spren and were able to make shardplate, wouldn't that also make the singers unable to make their carapace armor. Also I agree with the points @Preventer Wind brought up. ;)

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On 8/5/2019 at 9:53 PM, Ripheus23 said:

There seem to be analogues and tethers of the prior magic, in the Knights-system, like the use of gems to bind Shardblades.

Well, the Nahel-bond/Knights system is based on the magic given to humans from Honor after they came to Roshar. The Heralds came first, then the spren-Kinghts. So there is this call back to an older system but not as far back as you are suggesting. Also, the use of gems to bind Shardblades was not part of the original nahel-bond magic system. Humans use the gems to hack into the nahel-bond of the deadblades. So this is also a callback to an older system, but not to a time before Honor/Cultivation.

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