Letter Writer

[+Child of Hodor]

 

Quote

 

Elegy (paraphrased)

The second letter in this one [Oathbringer], was it written by Patji?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Bonn Signing (May 15, 2019)

 

 

Quote

You have spoken to one who cannot respond. We, instead, will take your communication to us-though we know not how you located us upon this world - OB Ch. 43 Epigraph 

I haven't seen this new WoB commented on in the either this or the SA forum yet, apologies if I missed it. This, like all things Patji, has me a little confused. I assumed Hoid wrote a letter to Patji who is the one that cannot respond. However, this WoB indicates Patji did respond. Who is the one that cannot respond, then?

Or did Hoid write it to the Island Patji and the Entity Patji responded. Brandon speaks of them in those terms in this WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/315/#e9385

It does make sense that Patji is responding because of the references to water and dangerous trials. Was Hoid confused and thought the Island itself was an avatar of Autonomy, but then the Avatar is like "Hey, you got my address wrong."? Maybe more like "Please, Mr. Patji is my Island's name. Call me Patji"

Or did he Hoid write or speak to a different Avatar that can't respond and Patji was stuck writing Hoid back?  

Quote

Perhaps if you had approached the correct one of us with your plea, it would have found favorable audience. - OB Ch. 47 Epigraph

My interpretation of this is that Hoid talked to a different Avatar that, for some reason could not respond. And yet the letter writer comments in the Ch. 46 that they are surprised Hoid found them "we thought it well hidden" and in the ch. 43 epigraph above they express surprise at being located.

It really does sound like Hoid wrote a letter to a pile of dirt. Or maybe he talked to an Aviar thinking Patji would get the message. The bird can't respond, but Patji can experience what the invested bird is experiencing. 

I think Autonomy Avatars being separate in body and mind, but the soul is part of the confusion. The writer may mean different things each time they use we or us.

[Chromium Compounder]

I believe it's that he wrote it to a different Avatar, but Patji is responding for that Avatar, because, as Patji says, the other Avatar can't respond.  I don't think we know the name or location of the other Avatar.

[Nnatel]

While reading this I got the impression that he wrote directly to Autonomy, Bavadin herself, with Patji responding in her place. 

Actually, what I find more interesting - if it is Patji responding, would that:

6 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

We, instead, will take your communication to us-though we know not how you located us upon this world - OB Ch. 43 Epigraph

mean, not only Patji is an Avatar but also other islands? Or at least there are another Avatars on the planet? 

[Chromium Compounder]

 

14 minutes ago, Nnatel said:

While reading this I got the impression that he wrote directly to Autonomy, Bavadin herself, with Patji responding in her place. 

Actually, what I find more interesting - if it is Patji responding, would that:

mean, not only Patji is an Avatar but also other islands? Or at least there are another Avatars on the planet? 

Hmm, I looked at it the other way.  I thought the letter went to a particular Avatar, but Patji is responding instead.  And when he/she/it says "We, instead, will take your communication to us", the "us" is referring to Autonomy as a whole, which I picture as being like a hive mind at this point.

[Nnatel]

 

15 minutes ago, Chromium Compounder said:

"We, instead, will take your communication to us" 

With this 'us' I definitely agree, it is most likely about all the Avatars in general but in the quote I repeated there is this part: 'you located us upon this world'. This feels like different 'us' if you get what I'm talking about. This one world - First of the Sun - and many Avatars. Or I'm misunderstanding this. 

[WhiteEmporer]

3 hours ago, Nnatel said:

 

With this 'us' I definitely agree, it is most likely about all the Avatars in general but in the quote I repeated there is this part: 'you located us upon this world'. This feels like different 'us' if you get what I'm talking about. This one world - First of the Sun - and many Avatars. Or I'm misunderstanding this. 

It might not mean all of "us" are on "this world". They could simply be,  in hive mind speak, referring to the fact that a part of "us" is on that world.

If an avatar of autonomy is on First of the Sun, the Autonomy can refer to (them?)selves as being on that world.

[Elegy]

I don't even think that "we" has to refer to multiple avatars in this case. There isn't even one use of first person singular in the letter, so we don't know if Patji ever uses it.  Maybe "we" is just him in some cases. Although It wouldn't be too shocking if there were multiple avatars on First of the Sun. But then, Patji would have to be the one most Invested in it, since it's been pretty clear that there's only one perpendicularity there and it's clearly his.

[Chromium Compounder]

5 hours ago, Elegy said:

I don't even think that "we" has to refer to multiple avatars in this case. There isn't even one use of first person singular in the letter, so we don't know if Patji ever uses it.  Maybe "we" is just him in some cases. Although It wouldn't be too shocking if there were multiple avatars on First of the Sun. But then, Patji would have to be the one most Invested in it, since it's been pretty clear that there's only one perpendicularity there and it's clearly his.

Agreed 

[Scion of the Mists]

The new avatar that Hoid tried to speak to is not Patji (who is the letter writer), and not Bavadin.  It is a new avatar that is located on a Shardworld called Obrodai.  It's also almost certainly *not* First of the Sun, as Patji refers to it as "that world," and asks that Hoid "seek these waters in person" (referring to coming to First of the Sun and talking to Patji himself).  It's certainly possible that Obrodai is a different planet in the Drominad system.  

Edited June 4, 2019 by Scion of the Mists

[Elegy]

3 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

It's certainly possible that Obrodai is a different planet in the Drominad system.  

That's very, very unlikely. Hoid worldhops via perpendicularities and Patji's eye is the only one in the system. He probably couldn't even go to the other worlds, let alone "return". I think it's very safe to say Obrodai is a world in a system we haven't seen yet.

[Nnatel]

Okay, I was probably trying to get too much from this. The idea that Patji refers to himself as 'we' all the time is much easier and still works, you have me here. 

3 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

The new avatar that Hoid tried to speak to is not Patji (who is the letter writer), and not Bavadin.  It is a new avatar that is located on a Shardworld called Obrodai. 

Just from curiosity, can I ask where you found this? I can't find anything. 

[Scion of the Mists]

16 minutes ago, Nnatel said:

4 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

The new avatar that Hoid tried to speak to is not Patji (who is the letter writer), and not Bavadin.  It is a new avatar that is located on a Shardworld called Obrodai. 

Just from curiosity, can I ask where you found this? I can't find anything. 

Obrodai is mentioned in the letter (the chapter 50 epigraph).  Brandon confirmed that it's a Shardworld in a WoB during the Oathbringer tour.  The avatar can't be Bavadin, because it's a new avatar that he tried to contact.  

The easiest place to find these kind of things is the Coppermind (basically the Cosmere Wikipedia): https://coppermind.net/wiki/Obrodai

 

Ch 50 Epigraph:

Quote

"We also instruct that you should not return to Obrodai. We have claimed that world, and a new avatar of our being is beginning to manifest there.

She is young yet, and--as a precaution--she has been instilled with an intense and overpowering dislike of you."

 

Newcastle WoB:

Quote

Questioner

Is Obrodai going to be the setting of Dark One?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. That is also a RAFO. Sorry, sorry! This is partially because Dark One pops in and out of the cosmere a lot, depending on which version I'm doing. It's been the hardest book. For those who don't know anything about, this is a book I talk about in my blog once in a while... It's like the Harry Potter story, except you get told "By the way, you're the Dark One who's gonna destroy the world, so we're gonna assassinate you while you're a teenager, so that never happens." It's a really cool story that I have never been able to get to work.

Questioner

*inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, and Obrodai is one of the Shardworlds, but I keep popping Dark One in and out of the cosmere. Sometimes it feels too self-referential to the fantasy genre to actually be in the cosmere. Because I don't want the cosmere to be self-referential, right? Whenever something gets even a little too silly, I'm like, "Nah, this can't be in the cosmere anymore." So, we'll see what happens.

Oathbringer Newcastle signing (Dec. 1, 2017)

[Nnatel]

2 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Obrodai is mentioned in the letter (the chapter 50 epigraph).  Brandon confirmed that it's a Shardworld in a WoB during the Oathbringer tour.  The avatar can't be Bavadin, because it's a new avatar that he tried to contact.  

The easiest place to find these kind of things is the Coppermind (basically the Cosmere Wikipedia): https://coppermind.net/wiki/Obrodai

 

Ch 50 Epigraph:

Quote

"We also instruct that you should not return to Obrodai. We have claimed that world, and a new avatar of our being is beginning to manifest there.

She is young yet, and--as a precaution--she has been instilled with an intense and overpowering dislike of you."

I still don't get the part why you think that this letter was written to the Avatar on Obrodai. It can be that I missed something in all you quoted but I don't know why you believe it was a new Avatar that Hoid was writing to. If you could explain, I'll be grateful. 

Yes, there is an Autonomy's Avatar on Obrodai. But what I got from this is that in the past Hoid did something (probably some mess, like he always does) on Obrodai. And all the purpose I see in mentioning this Avatar in the letter is to tell Hoid not to go there again as he won't be welcome. 

[Elegy]

Obrodai or not, Hoid definitely didn't try to contact the new avatar. Because if so, why would Patji feel the need to tell him she exists? The "one who cannot respond" has to be someone else. Although, sure, it's possible that they are/used to be located on Obrodai.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Elegy

[Scion of the Mists]

18 hours ago, Nnatel said:

I still don't get the part why you think that this letter was written to the Avatar on Obrodai. It can be that I missed something in all you quoted but I don't know why you believe it was a new Avatar that Hoid was writing to. If you could explain, I'll be grateful. 

Yes, there is an Autonomy's Avatar on Obrodai. But what I got from this is that in the past Hoid did something (probably some mess, like he always does) on Obrodai. And all the purpose I see in mentioning this Avatar in the letter is to tell Hoid not to go there again as he won't be welcome. 

Well, he wrote the letter to someone.  It wasn't Bavadin, and it wasn't Patji.  The only other avatar we know of is the new one on Obrodai, so that should be the default choice (i.e. Occam's Razor).  

The first 90% of the letter is talking about an avatar and a planet.  It would be pretty weird for it to change tracks completely and talk about a different avatar/planet.  Plus, a new avatar would explain both the inability to respond to Hoid and Patji's surprise that Hoid was able to located the "insignificant" world.  

[Lidolas]

4 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Well, he wrote the letter to someone.  It wasn't Bavadin, and it wasn't Patji.  The only other avatar we know of is the new one on Obrodai, so that should be the default choice (i.e. Occam's Razor).  

The first 90% of the letter is talking about an avatar and a planet.  It would be pretty weird for it to change tracks completely and talk about a different avatar/planet.  Plus, a new avatar would explain both the inability to respond to Hoid and Patji's surprise that Hoid was able to located the "insignificant" world.  

We know there are whole pantheons in which every member is Bavadin, or rather, an avatar of her.

[Scion of the Mists]

4 hours ago, Lidolas said:

We know there are whole pantheons in which every member is Bavadin, or rather, an avatar of her.

We actually have very little idea what avatars are or how they're made.  The only ones we know of are Patji and the new one on Obrodai.  When Brandon's talked about whole pantheons being Bavadin (i.e. this WoB), he's used the phrase "personas" - which might be the same thing, but might not.  The way Brandon's talked about avatars (which isn't often) leads me to believe that they're more than just a persona, they're distinct beings (to some as yet unrevealed extent).  But they don't seem (to me) to be the kind of thing where you would have multiple avatars on the same planet, all being worshiped by some religion.  They seem more like mini-Shards, or something similar.