On Adonalsium

[Prudii Verd he/him]

So, Adonalsium. The essential God of the cosmere, shattered into the sixteen shards.

Or, was he really a God?

My theory (not backed up with particular evidence) is that Adonalsium is not really God himself. After all, how would a true God fall to a weapon made by (at least relatively) mortals?

My theory is that Adonalsium himself was/is something akin to a shard of an actual god, but not a god that was fully shattered, per se. (so now that i write this out it sounds kinda wack)

This would make all of the shards of Adonalsium essentially be shards of shards. It would also be a neat explanation of why we don't have Investiture, as that would have been taken by Adonalsium.

I put this on here just so that I could clear my mind of this idea. I would like to see what the community has to say on this, although it's likely that big Brandon has already answered a question similar to this. I don't quite have the time to go looking for evidence right now, but the idea just popped into my head when I was reading Oathbringer and Evi was talking about the One, as I kinda think that that religion may be a corruption of an ancient religion that worshipped the Big Adonai himself.

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

@Prudii Verd You've struck upon one of the major conundrums of the Universe, there is always the question of "what came before". If you answer that question, then the question is simply reapplied to what ever the answer was, ad infinitum.

I doubt Brandon will answer questions about origins or endings in the Cosmere. I think I've seen a WoB where he said he prefers to let the readers make their own determinations.

[+TheFoxQR]

Personal theory is Adonalsium was the original mega spren. As in, a big bunch of investiture that gained sentience - possibly coming together in accordance with life on Yolen. Kinda like symbiosis, where as life evolved, it pulled more and more investiture towards Yolen making Adonalsium more and more sentient and powerful, and as that happened it gave life more agency to change and grow. By the time Humans and Sho Del showed up, Adonalsium had become basically God - an independent entity that was intertwined with life itself, but at a much higher level and bigger scale.

[Karger he/him]

I personally think that Adonalsium was just the Cosmere big bang only instead of creating energy and matter it created investiture.  As to your theory I dislike unnecessarily multiplying deities but "its turtles all the way down" has plenty of president as a theory.

[Inky]

4 hours ago, TheFoxQR said:

Personal theory is Adonalsium was the original mega spren. As in, a big bunch of investiture that gained sentience - possibly coming together in accordance with life on Yolen. Kinda like symbiosis, where as life evolved, it pulled more and more investiture towards Yolen making Adonalsium more and more sentient and powerful, and as that happened it gave life more agency to change and grow. By the time Humans and Sho Del showed up, Adonalsium had become basically God - an independent entity that was intertwined with life itself, but at a much higher level and bigger scale.

Adonalsium personally made other planets besides Yolen, specifically Roshar, which has so many parts involved in its meticulous crafting that Ado had to be sapient when they made it

[Zurvanight he/him]

Not really a theory, but more of an observation about the idea behind Adonalsium. I like to think that Shattering of Adonalsium is based on the Judiac Tohu and Tikkun (Chaos and Order) and the event known as The Shattering of the Vessels.

Tohu and Tikkun explains that at the beginning of creation, the universe was in a spiritual condition (Tohu or Chaos) that lacked balance and order. Because of this an event occurred called the Shevirat Hakeilim or, "The Shattering of the Vessels" where light left these vessels known as the ten Sefirot, tools that were necessary to filter Gods Infinite Light because unfiltered, the light of God would obliterate everything (later on they are sometimes considered the ten structural forces of nature, which is reminiscent of the Shards of Adonalsium even tho the number isn't 16. I'm not gonna go into detail on the Sefirot because it would take all day). The vessels of Tohu were immature and the light emanating from them was too strong and they shattered. The fragments of these vessels fell to lower worlds where they were absorbed. The fragments of the vessels are called sparks of holiness and they exist in everything.

This "Shattering" was planned by God as an act of "destruction for the purpose of rebuilding." So after this God rebuilt the Sefirot, this time making them able to contain the light, and filter it properly. And only because of this event we are able to exist in the orderly world of Tikkun that we are familiar with. 

Adonalsium reminds me of the Ein Sof Ohr; the divine light that existed prior to everything except God himself. God himself being unknowable and hidden is the God Beyond.

Judaic lore is really, really confusing haha.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Zurvanite

[Scion of the Mists]

I think it's all but guaranteed that Brandon won't answer this question.  He doesn't like shooting down theories, and honestly, there's no reason for him to settle on a particular answer.  The Cosmere works fine with some unanswered questions.  

Also, Earth is not part of the Cosmere.  

[Zurvanight he/him]

27 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Also, Earth is not part of the Cosmere.  

If this was in reference to my post, I know that lol. What I meant is that Brandon might've drawn some inspiration from the Kabbalah and Zohar when creating Adonalsium.  There are lot of ideas in there that are eerily similar to each other. As I said, it's an observation, not a theory.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Zurvanite

[Scion of the Mists]

1 hour ago, Zurvanite said:

If this was in reference to my post, I know that lol. What I meant is that Brandon might've drawn some inspiration from the Kabbalah and Zohar when creating Adonalsium.  There are lot of ideas in there that are eerily similar to each other. As I said, it's an observation, not a theory.

No, it was referencing the original post:

On 4/8/2019 at 11:13 AM, Prudii Verd said:

This would make all of the shards of Adonalsium essentially be shards of shards. It would also be a neat explanation of why we don't have Investiture, as that would have been taken by Adonalsium.

[Zurvanight he/him]

2 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

No, it was referencing the original post:

Ah ok, was confused haha

[Prudii Verd he/him]

3 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Also, Earth is not part of the Cosmere.  

While I understand that, big Brandon has said that The Cosmere is a dwarf galaxy/cluster of stars, and so it could be assumed that they exist in the same universe, not the same galaxy.

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Prudii Verd

[HSuperLee]

59 minutes ago, Prudii Verd said:

While I understand that, big Brandon has said that The Cosmere is a dwarf galaxy/cluster of stars, and so it could be assumed that they exist in the same universe, not the same galaxy.

 

Except that then, Sanderson has to deal with the implications of Earth existing in his books, which he wants to avoid. If Earth exists, he has to start answering questions like, "Is all of human history the same?" "Does Brandon Sanderson exist on Earth?" "There are all these beliefs on Earth that state different things about the beginning of the universe. Are any of them right? What impact does that have on the Cosmere?" "Why don't people on Earth have magic?" "Could they be visited by Cosmerians?" "Why are humans in the Cosmere near identical to humans on Earth?" And so on. 

It's just a lot easier to write fantasy by taking Earth out of the picture. You have to answer less questions and deal with less (usually unfortunate) implications.

[Scion of the Mists]

2 hours ago, Prudii Verd said:

While I understand that, big Brandon has said that The Cosmere is a dwarf galaxy/cluster of stars, and so it could be assumed that they exist in the same universe, not the same galaxy.

Brandon has been very clear that Earth and the Cosmere are "very distinct and separated" and that any mention of Earth is "one of his dividing lines."  

[not an Evil Librarian]

On 4/9/2019 at 10:57 AM, Prudii Verd said:

 big Brandon has said that The Cosmere is a dwarf galaxy/cluster of stars, and so it could be assumed that they exist in the same universe, not the same galaxy.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Cosmere is an entire universe similar to our own. However, all of the Cosmere stories are happening within the same dwarf galaxy. The Cosmere itself is not a star cluster. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by not an Evil Librarian

[Zurvanight he/him]

1 hour ago, not an Evil Librarian said:

I'm pretty sure that the Cosmere is an entire universe similar to our own. However, all of the Cosmere stories are happening within the same dwarf galaxy. The Cosmere itself is not a star cluster. 

This thread literally has a quote from Brandon saying that the Cosmere is a Dwarf Galaxy/Star Cluster.

[HSuperLee]

2 hours ago, not an Evil Librarian said:

I'm pretty sure that the Cosmere is an entire universe similar to our own. However, all of the Cosmere stories are happening within the same dwarf galaxy. The Cosmere itself is not a star cluster. 

Presumably the Cosmere exists in a universe. But the star cluster all the stories take place in is called the Cosmere as far as I understand.

[Elegy he/him]

It's confirmed that there are other stars outside of the cosmere. But we don't know whether they are outcasts or belong to any other galaxies. The cosmere itself is a dwarf galaxy/star cluster.. Although it isn't wrong to call it a universe in the sense of a creative universe that several stories take place in, in contrast to the astronomical term.

[not an Evil Librarian]

The Coppermind has lied to me!!!

Quote

The structure and physics of the cosmere are the same as our own, but the main story of the cosmere occurs in a compact dwarf galaxy, meaning it has many fewer stars and systems than our galaxy.

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by not an Evil Librarian

[HSuperLee]

11 minutes ago, not an Evil Librarian said:

The Coppermind has lied to me!!!

 

Anything not written in metal, my friend.