Cosmere Gods? Hardly.

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

I've obviously been thinking a lot about the Cosmere and all the stories told in the shared universe. And a thought occurred to me out of the blue. Our 16 aspects of Adonalasium are, as we get to know the people behind the powers, pretty unimpressive to me. Sazed is wishy-washy, Rayse is petty, Leras made himself an idiot, Ati was overdramatic in the most moustache-twirling sense, Edgli is super overconfident, Tanavast was paranoid and who the hell knows what Culti's deal is. I guess the takeaway is that they are people, or once were people. The problem, if you can call it that, is that some of our characters have more gravitas than the Gods themselves. No theory attached to this thought blurb, just spilling. Any thoughts on this?

[Nathrangking he/him]

Well that is something that Brandon toys with a lot. This idea of fallibility makes for flawed and in many senses more interesting characters. What happens when flawed being are given that much power?

[Calderis he/him]

I think the Shards end up far more gods in the Greek or Norse manner than how the word is more typically used today. 

They are very flawed. Very human(emotionally if not biologically) in some ways and very broken by their power in others. Playful or spiteful, capricious or wise, always more extreme personality traits than impressive or inhuman. 

That doesn't make them any less "gods." I think it actually makes them match up with a far greater number of gods throughout history. 

[Nathrangking he/him]

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I think the Shards end up far more gods in the Greek or Norse manner than how the word is more typically used today. 

They are very flawed. Very human(emotionally if not biologically) in some ways and very broken by their power in others. Playful or spiteful, capricious or wise, always more extreme personality traits than impressive or inhuman. 

That doesn't make them any less "gods." I think it actually makes them match up with a far greater number of gods throughout history. 

Very true! Mythologically speaking many ancient gods were very human and fallible. They were more super - powered humans than omniscient being there is an element of relatability to gods who think and act human. Certainly their powers coupled with fallibility give us much to discuss.

[+TheFoxQR]

You also assume that the original 16 didn't once have the gravitas that most main characters do right now. It's centuries, nay millenia, of being godly powerful and yet unable to be all powerful, of knowing some of the deepest secrets of the cosmere, of shepharding investiture in their respective domains. Of being lonely as heck, holding power that constantly erodes your consciousness, pushing you towards enforcing a concept with a singlemindedness that would make fanatics and zealots go "damnation son!"

Yeah, they're gods. But they're only human.

Edited March 31, 2019 by TheFoxQR

[Pagerunner he/him]

I think you've hit on a pretty key theme across the books of the Cosmere. Brandon, as a religious individual, has discussed some of his views before, specifically in how he incorporated some of his personal views into Sazed's arc in Mistborn, most importantly "each religion having a piece of truth." But, if there is an Aboslute Truth, and if only pieces of religions (non-Mormon religions, from his point of view) are true, then there's a lot in them that is false; and the Shards and the Vessels seem to be, in a lot of ways, an exploration of the mortal's faulty understanding of the divine. He's set up the Cosmere with its own Absolute Truth (Adonalsium and its nature), and is now presenting us with all of these diluted and malformed interpretations of it.

There's the aspect you talk about, where the individual Vessels (humans, dragons, or Sho Del) have their character flaws that can make the Shard and its actions worse. I think this was exhibited best by the views of Rayse espoused in the various Stormlight letters, how he was viewed as a bad person even before taking up a dangerous Shard. It's pretty easy to find parallels for this through real-world religion, both modern or historical, of where individuals had a negative influence on religions (whether well-intended or maliciously). Like that old bumper sticker, "I'm a fan of God, but I could do without his followers." As mortals interact with the divine, they inherently become a filter which affects others negatively. (Because you're not gonna be better than God at being God.) This theme also plays pretty heavily with individuals who aren't Shards, up to and including main characters like Dalinar and Kelsier. (Maybe a bad example... let's say "characters who, as of right now, don't hold Shards, yet still maintain significant religious influence." I'll cover my bases.)

But there's another aspect of this topic, which is the misunderstanding of the divine itself. There's a philosophical question known as "theodicy." Basically, if God is all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful, why is there suffering? If you take away any of those attributes, you 'resolve' the issue of suffering, but you diminish God in the process. I'm not going to try to answer the theodicy question here; I think it's a little bit outside the scope of the topic (or even the entire forum). But I bring it up because that's exactly what is happening with the Shards. We have sixteen pieces of Adonalsium, each of them diminished in terms of divine nature, overpowered by a single imbalanced attribute. That's what we saw with Ruin in Secret History; Ati was a good man, but he was overpowered by something of the divine that sought to bring about destruction. Adonalsium didn't have that issue, because he had fifteen other parts that all worked together in harmony (lower-case "h," let's not get too crazy here) to appropriately balance it out. The exploration is relevant to real-life because of earnest people who lack a proper understanding of the totality of God. You may get "God is Love," to the exclusion of everything else, and that comes up with a religion or denomination. Or "God is Just," and that comes up with another. God may be both Loving and Just; but Team Love and Team Just, only having a piece of the truth, wind up disagreeing on all sorts of things, even though they both start from fundamentally true concepts.

All that to say, it is an astute observation, and something that I agree is intentional. As a religious student of religions, Brandon is writing these situations to explore the ways that mankind misses Absolute Truth, either through human fallibility or an incomplete view of the divine.

[Pathfinder]

I am inclined to view the 16 shards as Jasnah does:

 

“You’re so sure he isn’t real,” Shallan said. “The Almighty.”

“I have no more proof of him than I do of the Thaylen Passions, Nu Ralik of the Purelake, or any other religion.”

“And the Heralds? You don’t think they existed?”

"I don’t know,” Jasnah said. “There are many things in this world that I don’t understand. For example, there is some slight proof that both the Stormfather and the Almighty are real creatures—simply powerful spren, such as the Nightwatcher.”

“Then he would be real.”

“I never claimed he was not,” Jasnah said. “I merely claimed that I do not accept him as God, nor do I feel any inclination to worship him."

 

You can have power of varying levels in the Cosmere. Doesn't mean you should be worshiped or viewed as a god. If I can through knowledge and work attain the same thing as any Shard, then they are not deities. They are simply people with access to abilities I have not gotten for myself yet. I do not accept them as being any more divinely superior to me or anyone else. They have the same failings, and foibles as myself, and I would not feel any inclination to worship one or all of them. 

[not an Evil Librarian]

I think that the closest being in the Cosmere to a god by my definition, is Harmony. He knows what it truly is to be a god seeing as how he has studied religions for his entire mortal existence. He also actually cares about being the best deity that he can be, which sets him apart from other shards we've met so far.