Possible hint to Taldain's state and Autonomy's interpretation?

[+TheFoxQR]

I was just reading the Bands of Mourning Epilogue, and I came across this:

Spoiler

“No longer. Recent advances have made civilization here too dangerous. Allowing it to continue risks further advances we cannot control, and so we have decided to remove life on this sphere instead. Thank you for your service; it has been accepted. You will be allowed to serve in another Realm.”

 

I've been convinced for a while now that Autonomy's intention is to make things as "independent" as possible, taken to an extreme. As such, it is the exact opposite of Unification. If Trell here is indeed Autonomy, then its primary reason behind isolating Taldain would be to stop it from interacting with other planets - making life on Taldain stand on its own, independent of anything else. Because if you're capable of interacting with someone else, then pesky stuff like trade comes into play - which could be seen as a form of co-dependence. This is what it tried to do on Scadrial. But it realized that Scadrial is moving too fast, and with the guidance and protection of Harmony, would have space travel soon, way before Trell had any chance of taking control and isolating it/putting it in technological stasis.

 

Maybe this is why it is helping Odium at all - from its perspective, Odium is taking out shards that are not "Independent", so of course it would lend a hand. Besides, shardless planets are prime targets for it to start making its own pantheons on (because all that investiture is just sitting around with no owner, allowing Autonomy to come in and start making mega-spren like separate and independent "avatars", like Patji on First of the Sun), allowing it to control advancement on the planet - exactly like it did on Taldain. That is, of course, assuming Taldain's isolation is Autonomy's doing.

 

Speculation on the plot of the Lost Metal:

Spoiler

Also, does this nugget mean Suit just got promoted? Also, maybe the plot of the Lost Metal would be all about finding and stopping Autonomy/Trell/Set from getting to the new Pits of Hathsin (which I think still exist, and are the primary means Harmony is getting rid of excess Ruin) and using that Atium to somehow end the world.

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by TheFoxQR

[Chromium Compounder]

Interesting theory.  Sounds reasonable to me.

[Calderis he/him]

Two points. 

First, Taldain is no longer isolated. 

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Questioner

Nightblood. He just showed up at the end of The Stormlight Archive--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

--the last one. So, is there a place that's a connection between all of the universes?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there is.

Questioner

And it's been reached in The Stormlight Archive?

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, so I'm guessing you don't know about all of this but there are characters from Elantris that are in Mistborn--

Questioner

Yes. Like Hoid.

Brandon Sanderson

--and all of this stuff. I would say one of the things is that Roshar is a little bit easier to get to than some of the others, but it's not that it has been breached there so much as it's a little bit easier to get to.

Questioner

Yes, I'm assuming it has something to do with the Cognitive Realm but then objects going through the Cognitive Realm is kind of tripping me.

Brandon Sanderson

Hehe… *long pause* There are places in the Cognitive Realm that are somewhat nexus-like, like you're talking about. Yes there are places like that. ...So Roshar might actually be the easiest place to get to in the cosmere, like from planet to planet. Sel is probably the hardest, right now. For a long time Taldain was very hard, but not anymore.

Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

Second, and this one is my own speculation, but I don't believe that Autonomy's intent is what it is commonly (and seemingly obviously) interpreted to be. 

 

[+TheFoxQR]

13 hours ago, Calderis said:

First, Taldain is no longer isolated. 

I know about that, it's just... for some reason, I assumed that is NOT Autonomy's doing. Or maybe not all of Autonomy, at least.

[ND103]

On 26/03/2019 at 0:51 AM, TheFoxQR said:

Speculation on the plot of the Lost Metal:

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, does this nugget mean Suit just got promoted? Also, maybe the plot of the Lost Metal would be all about finding and stopping Autonomy/Trell/Set from getting to the new Pits of Hathsin (which I think still exist, and are the primary means Harmony is getting rid of excess Ruin) and using that Atium to somehow end the world.

 

 

I do believe there is a WOB that there is no more atium or lerasium except any that was left prior to the events of the hero of ages. What there is is ettmetal which is the metal of harmony which could well be in play though for what you're proposing. 

[Subvisual Haze]

I like your analysis and theory!  I wasn't aware of the recent opening of Taldain, and the union of Harmony certainly seems like the sort of cosmere level important event that could trigger a sudden change in Autonomy from isolationism to preemptive strike mode to preserve it's own independence.

[Elegy he/him]

Very reasonable analysis which I agree with.

Sanderson confirmed most of the actual Trell stuff to happen in Mistborn Era 3:

 

Quote

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Trell, who is he? Or if you're not going to reveal that, when will you...

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It's going to take a little while to dig into that. It's going to need Mistborn Era 3, is all the Trell stuff.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

 

 

Assuming that Trell is an avatar of Autonomy (which is, at this state, more than likely), that would mean that Autonomy is likely to be Mistborn Era 3's main antagonist. This makes all the more sense once you realize that Mistborn Era 3 will be the doorstep between fantasy Cosmere and sci-fi Cosmere. Autonomy will NOT want Scadrians to develop FTL travel and leave the planet, because that would mean "globalization" (on a galactical level) and - inevitably - colonialisation. Both of which is exactly what Autonomy would not want to happen. And, that said, we know that it WILL happen one way or another, considering the Ones Above.

I think Autonomy wanting to wipe out Scadrial is comparable to someone wanting to end all of Europe some time in the 16th century to prevent the mass murders, slavery and colonialization in Africa, East Asia and North & South America to happen.

[Karger he/him]

49 minutes ago, Elegy said:

I think Autonomy wanting to wipe out Scadrial is comparable to someone wanting to end all of Europe some time in the 16th century to prevent the mass murders, slavery and colonialization in Africa, East Asia and North & South America to happen.

I don't think that is quite true.  Autonomy to the best of my knowledge has never cared about morality or helping people.  I would also like to point out the autonomy can mean control. Autonomy. 1 : the quality or state of being self-governing.  Perhaps Autonomy's interpretation makes it so that she wants to be the self in the definition?  I do think you are on to something in that she wants to keep groups of people as independent of each other as possible.

[Elegy he/him]

In a way, every Shard has its own definition of morality even though it's different from what you and I may call moral (which will probably differs as well), since they are so engrossed by the Shard's Intent - Autonomy certainly wants to prevent colonialization and slavery to happen (she doesn't have as much of a problem with mass murder in principle though, obviously), but - as you said - not to help people. Just like Ruin wanted change, but obviously not to help people, but just because in his mind, the right thing to do is changing things, even if it means destroying them.

So I basically agree with what you wrote, with slight modifications. The second part ... I don't know. I interpret "self-governing" as the power to govern oneself, as in being self-sufficient. I don't quite see the possibility to just replace the "self" through someone else without it not being self-governing anymore. So it wouldn't be Autonomy then. In my understanding, governing would be more like Dominion (which I'd guess might be the polar opposite of Autonomy). I might be wrong though, because 1) English is not my first language so the nuances of the definition might go over my head, and 2) there's admittedly some obvious contradiction happening anyway. Autonomy at the very least doesn't seem to have a problem to intervene to assist independence and/or prevent violations of it.

Then again, maybe we don't know enough about the Intent to determine things like that. Two years ago, a lot of us would have had a different definition of Odium compared to now. There's so many subtleties at play. But, given the quote in the original comment, it's safe to say that Trell doesn't like the progress on Scadrial, which would, theoretically, sit with Autonomy just nicely.

[Karger he/him]

2 hours ago, Elegy said:

don't know. I interpret "self-governing" as the power to govern oneself, as in being self-sufficient. I don't quite see the possibility to just replace the "self" through someone else without it not being self-governing anymore. So it wouldn't be Autonomy then. In my understanding, governing would be more like Dominion (which I'd guess might be the polar opposite of Autonomy).

It could be that because Autonomy is in everything she feels that she is responsible for the sentience that allows self governance and thus already governs everything.  If this is true then everyone who tries to do something she does not like is in opposition to her.  You are correct that Dominion is probably more like what we understand as governance although Honor is understood to be the opposite of Autonomy(at least as I understand it).

[Elegy he/him]

Oh sure, you're right. I messed things up in my head. The Shard I see as Dominion's polar opposite has actually been Endowment for a while - wanting to possess on the one hand and wanting to give on the other. Autonomy and Dominion probably have a similar relationship as Honor and Odium - not polar opposites, but likely to rival each other because of how one Intent tends to be in the way of the relative other.

One note about the governance of Autonomy, I think if it was the case she would be more present on Taldain - then again, we don't really know how much influence she might secretly have on the things happening on Taldain, so who knows.

[Calderis he/him]

29 minutes ago, Karger said:

You are correct that Dominion is probably more like what we understand as governance although Honor is understood to be the opposite of Autonomy(at least as I understand it).

Honor and Autonomy are easily placed in opposition. That doesn't mean they're "opposites" 

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Nashan'Elin (paraphrased)

Could Honor and Autonomy be considered opposites, like, Autonomy freeing from Honor's oaths?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, you could definitely think of it that way. Those two are more likely to be opposed than some others.

Calamity Denver signing (Feb. 19, 2016)

Again, it's all perception. 

Most shards don't have "opposites" 

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Shardbound [PENDING REVIEW]

Do all Shards have a direct paired opposite intent...

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No, I would say no, they do not all have a directly paired opposite intent.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

The intents are to broad, to varied, and have far to much potential for overlap to view them strictly in that sense. It's one of the reasons attempts to "classify" or "categorize" the Shards bothers me. 

We don't know enough.