Original Cosmere Magic

[Calderis he/him]

Eh. I very much disagree. 

There may have been something similar to Hemalurgy... But Hemalurgy isn't a co-opt of anything. Systems are a natural outgrowth of the world's in which a shard is invested, and you have to unique (to our knowledge) situations combined to make scadrial. 

First you have a planet that did not exist pre-shattering, and second, you have two Shards investing there post Shattering. 

The interactions of a non-Adonalsium created world with the isolated intents of the Shards makes me think that Scadrial is far more likely to have relatively unique manifestations of investiture compared to anything else we've seen. 

Hemalurgy wasn't designed. It happened. It got nudged, but it was built from the ground up. 

[Quantus he/him]

9 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Eh. I very much disagree. 

There may have been something similar to Hemalurgy... But Hemalurgy isn't a co-opt of anything. Systems are a natural outgrowth of the world's in which a shard is invested, and you have to unique (to our knowledge) situations combined to make scadrial. 

First you have a planet that did not exist pre-shattering, and second, you have two Shards investing there post Shattering. 

The interactions of a non-Adonalsium created world with the isolated intents of the Shards makes me think that Scadrial is far more likely to have relatively unique manifestations of investiture compared to anything else we've seen. 

Hemalurgy wasn't designed. It happened. It got nudged, but it was built from the ground up. 

Where are you drawing the line between "something similar" and "built from the ground up"?  When I say I think it was based on pre-existing principles the primary precedent I had in mind was Lightweaving, which was not even a Rosharan thing and predates the shattering.   So the similarities as I imagine them would be limited to basic functional principles like Using the blood as a gateway to access the spiritweb directly, and maybe the idea of investing physical objects to graft spirit-web chunks from one being to another.  Things like the 16 metals (or even metal as a focus at all), and probably the specifics of the bind-points would be part of the scadrial-specific manifestation.

[Calderis he/him]

@Quantus that's kind of my point.

Lightweaving existed pre-shattering and a very similar system developed on a world that had its roots planted pre-shattering as well. 

Scadrial has to operate within the established cosmere rules, but I don't think what has developed there is going to be nearly as similar to anything pre-existing as other worlds. 

Ruin's system steals and diminishes, but no other world has Ruin's Investiture built into its framework without all 15 other shards to balance it. 

I think there may have been ways to emulate certain powers before, perhaps even theft, but I think that the Metallic Arts as a whole are going to be far more dissimilar to what came before than anything on a world like Roshar, that had a preexisting framework that the Shards expanded upon. 

[+Child of Hodor]

53 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@Quantus that's kind of my point.

Lightweaving existed pre-shattering and a very similar system developed on a world that had its roots planted pre-shattering as well. 

Scadrial has to operate within the established cosmere rules, but I don't think what has developed there is going to be nearly as similar to anything pre-existing as other worlds. 

Ruin's system steals and diminishes, but no other world has Ruin's Investiture built into its framework without all 15 other shards to balance it. 

I think there may have been ways to emulate certain powers before, perhaps even theft, but I think that the Metallic Arts as a whole are going to be far more dissimilar to what came before than anything on a world like Roshar, that had a preexisting framework that the Shards expanded upon. 

This is true. All the important Cosmere worlds are unique. But Scadrial is the least comparable to others. Both can manifest a humanoid form that humans can see, but only one Shard can talk to people one can read minds. Neither can read metal. Scadrial is very metal-centric.

I'm sure you could tear a chunk of spirit web off someone and staple it to someone else or take out an aspect of yourself store it and get back later, but if pre-shattering that storage was accomplished more like how people transfer or store breaths on Nalthis via command "My Strength to yours" which is it more like? 

I guess we're talking about two different things how are they accessed and what is the core result "gravity manipulation" "taking attributes from others increasing your own". Although they probably impact each other. If in my hypothetical example command attributes to each other they probably can't burn their strength therefore can't compound and do the fancy multi-magic system stuff. 

Unless they also have a Lift like ability to transmute food they eat. Command Agility into a cupcake and eat it. Burn it turn it into more agility etc.  

Edited February 28, 2019 by Child of Hodor

[Quantus he/him]

29 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@Quantus that's kind of my point.

Lightweaving existed pre-shattering and a very similar system developed on a world that had its roots planted pre-shattering as well. 

Scadrial has to operate within the established cosmere rules, but I don't think what has developed there is going to be nearly as similar to anything pre-existing as other worlds. 

Ruin's system steals and diminishes, but no other world has Ruin's Investiture built into its framework without all 15 other shards to balance it. 

I think there may have been ways to emulate certain powers before, perhaps even theft, but I think that the Metallic Arts as a whole are going to be far more dissimilar to what came before than anything on a world like Roshar, that had a preexisting framework that the Shards expanded upon. 

That's entirely fair.  Part of the tinfoil roots of the theory is the idea that Leras and Ati went to all the trouble (and metaphysical expense) in Creating whole a new planet, rather than settling on a pre-existing one like all the others (we know of) seem to have done, was that they were trying to Create the metallic arts specifically, by creating a planet and population that would allow the Arts to arise. And since neither Preservation or Ruin are thematically about original creation, maybe it would make sense that they knew of something pre-Shattering that they were using as a model/template.  And the metal focus of scadrial made me think Dragons, that maybe this was an ability that only dragons previously had, and they had very intentionally taken actions to make it available to the rest of the cosmere.  Which is a whole lot of 'Maybe", I fully admit. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

Dragons existed before the shattering. So shapeshifting is also original. Also presumably whatever is behind Dragonsteel and the Sho Del.