What's the (supernatural) deal with Balat?

[Quantus]

There's a WOB that some of the issues haunting House Davar were "magically enhanced", are there any theories as to what that might be? 

 

 

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Questioner

There's a scene where you can see from the perspective of Nan Balat, Shallan's brother, where he's maiming an insect. It's described as soothing his aches. Is that in any way related to how Kaladin feels depressed and down during the Weeping even in his early childhood?

Brandon Sanderson

What's happening to Nan Balat is magically enhanced. What's happening to Kaladin is mostly just chemical depression. Be he is really too young to be diagnosed with depression during some of these events, but he's got the seeds in there. So Kaladin is not magically depressed. Kaladin is just legitimatly a person with depression. Nan Balat... What's up with him is... ah... being exaggerated by certain forces moving in on Roshar. (last bit is a bit indistinctive)

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

 

 

I had a couple ideas come to mind, but Im curious what the prevailing theory is:

• Dark equivalent of the "Spiritual Sustenance" ability/role of Lightweavers, as seen with how both Shallan and Tien were able to help Kaladin shake out of his depression episodes. Perhaps Shallan being in such a dark place literally rubbed off on her brothers, not relenting until she started consciously trying to shake them out of their respective funks.
• The Black Fisher was nearby.  It doesnt really fit with the effects of Ashertmarn, but does a bit more with the rattle about the fisher that said "Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!"   Makes me think the Black Fisher will have emotional effects specifically relating to Sorrows and/or the lessening of them, possibly at the cost of blood sacrifice.

 

Thoughts?

[+Harrycrapper]

My best guess would be Odium or the Unmade. Seems similar to how we were shown Ruin and Preservation influencing people when we got a look behind the scenes in Hero of Ages and Secret History. Also worth noting is that people with cracks in their souls are easier to influence in that way, and Balat does seem broken. That does raise the interesting prospect that Shallan's brothers are all Nahel Bond compatible, as Radiant Spren use the same cracks to facilitate the Nahel Bond. 

[Quantus]

7 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

My best guess would be Odium or the Unmade. Seems similar to how we were shown Ruin and Preservation influencing people when we got a look behind the scenes in Hero of Ages and Secret History. Also worth noting is that people with cracks in their souls are easier to influence in that way, and Balat does seem broken. That does raise the interesting prospect that Shallan's brothers are all Nahel Bond compatible, as Radiant Spren use the same cracks to facilitate the Nahel Bond. 

Certainly possible, though in the case of Ruin it was specifically from the damage left by a hemalurgic spike (and only while the spike was implanted) whereas the Soul-cracks used by spren in the Nahel bond are the roshar equivalent to the cracks from Snapping, which werent enough to let Ruin in. 

[Scion of the Mists]

It's almost certainly an Unmade.  Which one, I'm not sure.  

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Um, yes.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Was it <the corrupt...>?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I'll RAFO that, but yes, there is some external influence there. 

JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018)

Presumably you're referring to this WoB about magical enhancement.  The WoB is actually tagged with #unmade.  

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Certainly possible, though in the case of Ruin it was specifically from the damage left by a hemalurgic spike (and only while the spike was implanted) whereas the Soul-cracks used by spren in the Nahel bond are the roshar equivalent to the cracks from Snapping, which werent enough to let Ruin in. 

Ruin did not only need a spike in a person to influence them. Vin's mother was influenced because she was "unhinged". Kelsier was able to communicate with a beggar for the same reason. Odium could influence Sadeas's men because they were "open" to it (by his own words when the spren possess them). So spikes are not a requirement for Ruin. It just makes it easier. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Quantus]

28 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Ruin did not only need a spike in a person to influence them. Vin's mother was influenced because she was "unhinged". Kelsier was able to communicate with a beggar for the same reason. Odium could influence Sadeas's men because they were "open" to it (by his own words when the spren possess them). So spikes are not a requirement for Ruin. It just makes it easier. 

Fair point, Id forgotten about Vin's mother entirely.  Still, I dont think Ruin could communicate with anyone who was Snapped into being a Misting or Mistborn, so I dont think being cracked enough to be a Radiant is broken enough to let the shard influence them, I think there's a higher threshold.  

My impression regarding Sadeas's men was that it had a lot to do with the fact that they'd all been heavily exposed to the Thrill, but that's could be a similar thing, especially since becoming Radiant seemed to prevent the Thrill

[SwordNimiForPresident]

5 hours ago, Quantus said:

• "Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!"

This makes me think that it might be following Moash around. There's a few lines in chapter 54.

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Let go, Moash, something deep within him whispered. Give up your pain. It's all right. You did what was natural.

You can't be blamed. Stop carrying that burden.

Let go.

At first I assumed it was Odium himself doing it, but your theory has me thinking that it might be Dai-Gonarthis. I wonder if Odium uses it to groom potential servants. Take their pain and fill the void it leaves with anger and death.

[Pathfinder]

16 hours ago, Quantus said:

Fair point, Id forgotten about Vin's mother entirely.  Still, I dont think Ruin could communicate with anyone who was Snapped into being a Misting or Mistborn, so I dont think being cracked enough to be a Radiant is broken enough to let the shard influence them, I think there's a higher threshold.  

My impression regarding Sadeas's men was that it had a lot to do with the fact that they'd all been heavily exposed to the Thrill, but that's could be a similar thing, especially since becoming Radiant seemed to prevent the Thrill

No problem, though to clarify my point is regardless whether you are normal, mist born, or radiant, you do not require a spike in order to communicate with Ruin, nor necessarily anything stronger to communicate with Odium. Kelsier shows that in Secret History. The beggar was an average run of the mill human with no powers, and yet Kelsier could speak with him because he was "open". As I said, same thing with Vin's mother. So I am not saying someone who is mistborn intrinsically will be able to communicate with a shard, nor am I saying that of radiants. Balat can be a normal run of the mill human and still be influenced/talked to by a shard as long as he is "open" to it. 

[insert_anagram_here]

As others have pointed out we are being led by WoBs that it is one of the Unmade that influences the Davar family.

I'll take it a step further and place my bet, obviously very prematurely, on the Dustmother Chemoarish. I know it sounds completely out of the blue right now since we've hardly seen anything about her, but let me tell you my train of thought. 

From the Ten Essenses table, I think the Soulcasting Properties indicate what type of physical material the Unmade 'touch' in order to influence people (Soulcasting needs a point of contact in order to work after all). For example, we've seen the Midnight Essense where oil is very much present (both in Urithiru and Dalinar's vision). Food (pulp, wood, plants, moss) were present in abundance where Ashertmarn was pulling people into his revel. Sja-anat contacts Shallan through a mirror (Quartz, glass, crystal). Nergaoul was trapped in a ruby stone, so his essence is Fire/Spark, the Thrill, the adrenaline kick of the fight. Yelig-nar influences after people swallow a smokestone and they seem to be overtaken by a cloud of dark smoke. Moelach makes people voice Death Rattles at their moment of death, using their almost dead body, the Flesh. Dai-Gonarthis/Black Fisher is linked to the spren that appears in Iris, which rises up from the water and seems to be made of liquid, so I've linked that one to 'all non-oil liquid' and Blood. Ba-Ado-Mishram, the Everstorm is back after thousands of years and has 'awoken' the Listeners by haunting their gemhearts(Bone/Rock and stone) with Fused spirits. So by this rough estimation, I was left with Chemoarish and the elements of Translucent gas/air and Nails/Metal.

So, from the Coppermind, one of the little information we have about the Dustmother is that the people of Bavland swear by the Dustmother's name. Bavland was a small mining region in the nation of Jah Keved. Why would miners swear by the Dustmother's name? Hmmm, maybe because they need metal to make pickaxes and other mining tools. Incidentally, the Davar household was also involved in mining, to the point that Lin used to Soulcast in order to cover profits. He also went through the trouble of making daggers for his sons and a pendant for Shallan, by Soulcasting, you guessed it, metal. Another hint we get is that Shallan attempts to show off her Bavland accent to Tyn. 

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“You call that a Bav accent?” Tyn demanded. “I’ve only heard them three or four times.” “You sounded like you have rocks in your mouth!” “That’s how they sound!” 

 

So, to close up my post, even if I've miscalculated some of the Unmade essences to the corresponding Unmade, there is a small connection between Bavland, Chemoarish, the Davar household, and possibly Metal. So let me put my tinfoil hat on and shout 'Chemoarish!'

Edited January 31, 2019 by insert_anagram_here

[Scion of the Mists]

2 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

No problem, though to clarify my point is regardless whether you are normal, mist born, or radiant, you do not require a spike in order to communicate with Ruin, nor necessarily anything stronger to communicate with Odium. Kelsier shows that in Secret History. The beggar was an average run of the mill human with no powers, and yet Kelsier could speak with him because he was "open". As I said, same thing with Vin's mother. So I am not saying someone who is mistborn intrinsically will be able to communicate with a shard, nor am I saying that of radiants. Balat can be a normal run of the mill human and still be influenced/talked to by a shard as long as he is "open" to it. 

Although he wasn't Invested, the beggar wasn't just a run of the mill human.  Kelsier could talk to him because he was coo-coo.  

 

@insert_anagram_here I really like your Unmade-Essences theory!  Have you made a separate post about it?  If so, I missed it.  

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Although he wasn't Invested, the beggar wasn't just a run of the mill human.  Kelsier could talk to him because he was coo-coo.  

 

@insert_anagram_here I really like your Unmade-Essences theory!  Have you made a separate post about it?  If so, I missed it.  

Run of the mill because he was not invested. As per Brandon, you just need to be "open". Openness can include madness. It can also include other states of the mind. 

[Quantus]

@insert_anagram_here  Nice!  I dont recall seeing anything about  connecting the Essences with the unmade, but I like it!

[insert_anagram_here]

@Scion of the MistsI haven't made a thread on this theory yet. Partly because I wasn't too sure about some of the correlations and partly because I've seen so many Unmade theory threads die in obscurity. I wanted to at least go through the books one more time and see if I can find any more connections between them, just so I could bring all that information out at the same time. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by insert_anagram_here

[+Harrycrapper]

On 1/31/2019 at 10:50 AM, Scion of the Mists said:

Although he wasn't Invested, the beggar wasn't just a run of the mill human.  Kelsier could talk to him because he was coo-coo.  

 

@insert_anagram_here I really like your Unmade-Essences theory!  Have you made a separate post about it?  If so, I missed it.  

Kelsier could talk to him because he had cracks, same as Vin's mother, she had not spike. Hemalurgy creates cracks due to its nature and how it interacts with the soul, but the ability for Shards to influence people through those cracks is not unique to Ruin. Preservation couldn't do it because it was in its nature to shore up those cracks instead of widening them. I don't believe Odium or the relevant Unmade have any similar inhibitions. Though Odium seemed limited in how he could approach people on Roshar, it was either through the Everstorm or the Stormfather's visions, he does seem to have some influence over the people of Roshar. The Alethi seem especially influenced by him, I don't think that the Unmade alone are responsible for how warlike and dishonorable their society had become. Or at the very least, Odium directed the Unmade to influence their society in specific ways.